Hi guys, had always assumed this one was a grey, but now its moulting more im not so sure. Parents are a cobalt SF violet YF split opaline cock, dom pied YF2 grey hen (assumed zero dark factor, not sure).

 

This chick has always had deep blue cheek patches and a black tail, and i always suspected violet grey. I just want to make sure its not mauve by asking for opinions. Here's him over time:

 

 

 

Edited June 28, 200915 yr by Dean_NZ

Mauve.

 

Cheek patches are not showing as dark violet at all.

Edited June 28, 200915 yr by KAZ

Yes that's a mauve.

Edited June 28, 200915 yr by KAZ

Thanks for the prompt reply kaz I think you may be right. The chick patches were never grey-blue, and that should be a clue. I just dont have any mauve's and i didnt know the hens dark factor. I guess i do now if this chick is mauve. He's certainly moulting into a deeper colour, that looks more bluey/purpley.

 

I keep meaning to find my camera and get some new batteries cos i wanna start pairing up birds for breeding in september by getting pictures of pairs now.

 

Anyone else agree/disagree? The more the merrier!

Edited June 28, 200915 yr by Dean_NZ

its hard to tell in the picture

looks like my mauve only she has deep violet patches in the picture his looks deep blue

are they blue or violet cause its the patches that counts in mauves they can be a slaty blueish grey or deep violet

grey birds just have grey patches

but my brain not working at moment if im wrong someone will say

 

its very cute bird must add

looks like my mauve cock only his patches are slaty bluish

Edited June 28, 200915 yr by GenericBlue

colour patch Slatty Bluish = grey bird.

"""""" Violet = Mauve.

He reminds me of Merlin's color, I hesitate to say mauve personally, maybe you can post another picture of him in a brighter natural light?

If i can find my camera I will take pictures showing him currently, he's changing in colour as his adult moult comes on.

colour patch Slatty Bluish = grey bird.

"""""" Violet = Mauve.

 

no i beg to differ sorry mate

all my grey birds bar two have the slateish blue as i call it

and all but two are mauve or grey with violet inheritance

 

i know violet = mauve but a grey bird is plainly just grey when the patches are grey

i know this

i know i seem a bit unknowable on this her sight

but im not as dim as i sim

i do say alot wrong her but i relize ive made a mistake and usually someone has come along and corected it so.. but i know that im right on this one it was not long ago that a breeder was in my aviry and mentioned to me that did i relize all my greys bar the two would more than likely produe violets or mauves we discussed this matter for awhile the end rezult being that most people did not know this and just classafied them as grey

i understand im still going to be told im wrong but

go for your life cause i know through the breeding of my bird from starting out with birds of no background history known and also no violet or mauve birds around to buy that i delved into my genetic knolage of inheratance and colour diffientiators to chose birds with my most best posable chance to achive my own violet birds

and im telling you slatish purpulyblue cheek patches = mauve or violet inherated bird

if breed right these birds produce the most beautiful of mauves and violets as they are not grey as i said you have 3 degrees of mauve as you do greys and blues and greens and other colour the first degree is a grey bird that looks to be with a blue sheen (blue grey ) yet apeirs to be grey

well look at the cheek patches cause only grey has grey

but we will probbly beg to differ on this macka

as i will also probbly be told by others im wrong also it does not matter as i know what i do know is right although other things im sure im compleatly off bat with

i was taught my true colour identafing skills through the patches and honestly i think all people should learn to identify colour this way as most people have birds with far more potential (colour wize) than they know

I butted out of this as mauve birds have a strong deep violet cheek patch but I've never seen a grey violet before. Does the violet factor in a grey bird affect the cheek patch to make it more "blueish"? Also all the mauves I have bred or seen have been a very patchy deep greyish colour never nice and even like this, but that does not mean much as there are not too many around and I've only bred a couple in the clearwings !!!

 

GB when you say your birds are grey with violet inheritance does that mean they ARE grey violets or just that a parent was violet?

 

Dean what is this birds parentage coz that might give us some clues as to what he can and can't be? edit: Doh - should have read a bit better hey? I just saw your first post explaining the parents (Gina smacks herself in the head).

 

I would not have said mauve straight up based on cheek patches and even body colour but not sure really - and like Elly would love a more current picture in natural light.

Edited June 29, 200915 yr by nubbly5

Parents - YF1 SF violet cobalt split opaline cock X YF2 dominant pied grey hen (unkown dark factor, i had assumed zero dark factor eg light grey).

 

Here is a picture (yes the cock is very large, my tallest male technically, but there is a 'stockier' cock almost as tall as him)

 

 

Now, in regards to nubbly's comment i am in agreement. All the mauves i have ever seen are quite patchy in colour, its one of the reasons i was told they arent popular show birds. Colour is too uneven and doesnt look very 'striking'. This bird has beautiful even colour that looked grey... but not quite typical grey. It is difficult to say really, I had always thought violet grey because his father is violet and his mother is grey. He has a grey sister, and a cobalt sister - neither of whom have any violet in them.

 

I will try and get photos of the lot today... off i go right now to find my camera (or try to!)

okay to be a mauve the mother would have to have to be either single or double dark factor. Do you know what the hens parentage is?

 

Sorry - that was baddly phrased! For the BABY to be a mauve the mther would have to be a single or double dark factor bird (as mauve is double dark factor). You know the cock is single dark factor so to get the double dark factor in one of their babies you would have to have one dark factor donated by the hen.

Edited June 29, 200915 yr by nubbly5

I butted out of this as mauve birds have a strong deep violet cheek patch but I've never seen a grey violet before. Does the violet factor in a grey bird affect the cheek patch to make it more "blueish"? Also all the mauves I have bred or seen have been a very patchy deep greyish colour never nice and even like this, but that does not mean much as there are not too many around and I've only bred a couple in the clearwings !!! GB when you say your birds are grey with violet inheritance does that mean they ARE grey violets or just that a parent was violet?Dean what is this birds parentage coz that might give us some clues as to what he can and can't be?I would not have said mauve straight up based on cheek patches and even body colour but not sure really - and like Elly would love a more current picture in natural light.

to be honest their is so much information that clashes out their when it comes to inheritance and colour its taken me years and i mean years to work out the relevance to the cheek patch issue but its all down to the light and dark factour in the end to have a violet mauve the bird would need to be carrying both dark and medium factors on seperate thingys look im no instine but i do know my breeding out comes and i do understand alot about the factors that need to be obtained in a birds general make up to present certain colours in a breeding out come im not going to sit here and try to explain what has taken me years to workout as its imposable but i will say this to me the bird in question apears to be a bird holding mauve with a dark inheratance and grey in the light no dark factor their for was born a cobalt blue grey looking bird and is maulting into a grey looking bird with a deep cobalt or mabe even violet shade evenly through out his body but still retains the grey as a visual aspect until sun is apone him wher he may look violet or deep cobalt i dont know which from the picture this means that the grey feathers layer the body yet the light factor maks them apear see through to an extent see i told you it would make know sence if i tryed to explain so im going to stop or i will look just stupid but however i do know what im trying to say its just not comming out right thats why i call certain birds of mine mauve grey like this boy of mine this is one chick of his she has no mauve or violet in her althogh she looks to have bluish cobalt sheen her patches are grey this her sister a mauve deep violet patches this bird is mauve but also violet her patches are deep deep violet to the extent they are black even still to this day this their brother again just grey but patches are blue this time not grey or violet or bluish slaty grey again another bird who is simply grey but apears bluish the patches are grey another grey bird this time grey green patches grey this next bird has the bluishslateish im talking about but is grey he holds violet gene but its not vivable to the eye this next bird same slateish bluish colour .,his holding violet gene and i know this bird does as he is my splat bird that got away another grey holding violet same slatish blue patches so i dont know thats they only way i can explain as for question are my birds violet grey or just from violet peront well splat bird from violet father he grey but got the gene as for other bird i dont belive them to be violet grey although i do have one in my flock i think is but untill i breed him to test this then i will not know he looks to me to be dark grey but he does have violet patches so reason i brought him judge for yourselfs cause really their is no right or wrong when it comes down to it they are all grey just some are holding the violet modifyer and as it acts in the same fashion as the grey factor its very hard to distingwish a grey from a violet grey exept through the patches but as mauves have violet patches you may mistake a porly marked violet grey or a well marked muave violet in the grey seires im happy with my breeding rezults that im able to distingwish the 4 even more veriations for myself violet and mauve have many diffrent forms to many to get into one one discution and will always cause a conflicked so i stay out of them

Parents - YF1 SF violet cobalt split opaline cock X YF2 dominant pied grey hen (unkown dark factor, i had assumed zero dark factor eg light grey).Here is a picture (yes the cock is very large, my tallest male technically, but there is a 'stockier' cock almost as tall as him)Now, in regards to nubbly's comment i am in agreement. All the mauves i have ever seen are quite patchy in colour, its one of the reasons i was told they arent popular show birds. Colour is too uneven and doesnt look very 'striking'. This bird has beautiful even colour that looked grey... but not quite typical grey. It is difficult to say really, I had always thought violet grey because his father is violet and his mother is grey. He has a grey sister, and a cobalt sister - neither of whom have any violet in them.I will try and get photos of the lot today... off i go right now to find my camera (or try to!)

this is your awnser he holds violet but is grey mother being no dark factor

Edited June 29, 200915 yr by GenericBlue

Yeah GB I understand the dark factor and violet factor - the problem I have in this particular instance is that in the baby photo the bird has neither your typical violet cheek patches (indicating a mauve or cobalt) NOR has it got the typical slatey blue grey cheek patches (denoting the grey gene). Hoping Dean can send post a more recent natural light photo for us to look at and ponder over.

 

I would agree with GB that it's LIKELY to be a grey violet but not impossible for it to be a mauve also given that the mother COULD be either no dark factor, single dark factor or even double dark factor (although she does look like having no dark factor). Another thing that points to violet grey is the evenness of the body colour - in the photo's posted by GB her mauve also shows the patchy colouring typical of this double dark factor colour.

Yeah GB I understand the dark factor and violet factor - the problem I have in this particular instance is that in the baby photo the bird has neither your typical violet cheek patches (indicating a mauve or cobalt) NOR has it got the typical slatey blue grey cheek patches (denoting the grey gene). Hoping Dean can send post a more recent natural light photo for us to look at and ponder over.

 

I would agree with GB that it's LIKELY to be a grey violet but not impossible for it to be a mauve also given that the mother COULD be either no dark factor, single dark factor or even double dark factor (although she does look like having no dark factor). Another thing that points to violet grey is the evenness of the body colour - in the photo's posted by GB her mauve also shows the patchy colouring typical of this double dark factor colour.

 

glad someone understood my ramble :rofl:

again just grey but patches are blue this time not grey or violet or bluish slaty grey

this chick is identical colour to his father who is either mauve or violet grey with the slatish bluish grey patches

but his patches are blue not grey or violet or slatish bluish grey :question: so......

and the hens both of them are a very deep violet over their grey

one is defanantly mauve as she has the violet black tail feather the second one has the dark dark violet almost black patches

i think she is violet mauve they do look patchy on picture

but in aviry you can not see the patchiness they look very nice deep colour through out their body and as nubby stated the dd factor does apear more uneven through out than a total even sheen which to me indicates a modifing colour to be precent (violet)even if unseeable to the eye

i would love to see a few pics of the bird to date but im not going to dare name its colour :rofl:

Edited June 29, 200915 yr by Elly

I would agree with GB that it's LIKELY to be a grey violet but not impossible for it to be a mauve also given that the mother COULD be either no dark factor, single dark factor or even double dark factor (although she does look like having no dark factor). For the chick to be a mauve it would have to get 2 dark factors from each bird the mother would have to carry at least 1 dark factor for this chick to be a mauve.

The father is a Yellow Face I Cobalt Violet (carries 1 dark factor) the mother is a Yellow Face I Dominant Pied Grey and the grey is dark so I am saying she is carrying at least 1 dark factor, they can produce a mauve chick.

 

Very cool that they produced a white faced chick

 

The chick has too be either a cobalt or a mauve (these are base colors indicating how many dark factors) with the ADDED factors of grey and violet

 

I would still like to see better pics of the chick in natural lighting.

 

This is my personal opinion.

Edited June 29, 200915 yr by Elly

The father is a Yellow Face I Cobalt Violet (carries 1 dark factor) the mother is a Yellow Face I Dominant Pied Grey and the grey is dark so I am saying she is carrying at least 1 dark factor, they can produce a mauve chick.

 

Not sure I agree that the hen looks like a dark factor grey although greys are pretty difficult to tell in the dark factor series. But like you say IF she is carrying a df then it is possible for the baby to be mauve.

The father is a Yellow Face I Cobalt Violet (carries 1 dark factor) the mother is a Yellow Face I Dominant Pied Grey and the grey is dark so I am saying she is carrying at least 1 dark factor, they can produce a mauve chick.

 

Not sure I agree that the hen looks like a dark factor grey although greys are pretty difficult to tell in the dark factor series. But like you say IF she is carrying a df then it is possible for the baby to be mauve.

 

If she isn't carrying a DF then the baby could only be a cobalt never a mauve you know so then this debate would be over BUT if you can get another picture of the Grey in natural light that would help too .

 

I don't think it is a mauve personally I think he is a pretty Cobalt to be honest , until I see better picture. If you look at Merlin in my signature he is the pretty much the same color.

I can't see how he is carrying a grey gene because grey in a white based bird the out come is a grey.

Edited June 29, 200915 yr by Elly

Yep come on Dean - where are those pics??????!

Yep come on Dean - where are those pics??????!

 

having fun yet i agree more pics

he he this is an interesting post!

okay here are some pics from today, you can see he is moulting into quite a nice colour. I think after looking at these that he is in fact violet grey... I'd love to hear what y'all think Please note he is halfway through his moult, so he may look a bit patchy colour-wise. His colour and feathering is actually quite fine... very nice For reference, i tried to grab a picture of him with my big grey male, showing both their body colour and cheek patches as clearly as i could (they were afraid of the big silver shiny camera )

PICS WERE TAKEN ONLY IN DAYLIGHT - NO FLASH

 

I'll post a link beneath each picture that will take you to a larger high def version. (please note the link takes you to a larger picture, but you can zoom in further on those pics by clicking on them to make them 'full size')

 

Before moult -

 

Click here for larger picture

 

Today (about half moulted) -

 

 

Click here for larger picture

 

Pictured next to big grey today -

 

 

Click here for larger picture

 

Pictured here with a sky blue just for reference -

 

 

Click here for larger picture

 

EDIT: Here he is with dad today for further reference -

 

 

Click here for larger picture

Edited June 30, 200915 yr by Dean_NZ

That's solved it 100% uncategorically a grey. Might possibly be a violet grey or a dark factor grey but 100% a grey. The cheek patch and colouring is definitely a grey bird but Ihave had greys bred through df birds that come out looking that blueish tinge when compared to a normal no df grey bird. But I would imagine that a violet grey could end up looking similar and the baby photo might suggest he has violet in him.

 

Breeding him will give you the answer to that - if after a number of babies, no violet then he is just a dark factor grey.

 

Edit: I just nicked out to look at my dark factor greys and I have to say now that I reckon this guy MUST be violet grey coz although his cheek patches are definitely still in the realms of grey, they are a much deeper blue shade than my dark factor greys.

Edited June 30, 200915 yr by nubbly5

I went and asked some advice from Neville, a member here that knows his stuff and I barely ever disagree with his words of wisdom, here is what he PM'd me

 

Hi Elly

I think the chick is both violet and grey. The cheek patches are quite a bright blue which is usual for a bird that has both mutations. I think the base colour is probably cobalt

I went and asked some advice from Neville, a member here that knows his stuff and I barely ever disagree with his words of wisdom, here is what he PM'd me

 

Hi Elly

I think the chick is both violet and grey. The cheek patches are quite a bright blue which is usual for a bird that has both mutations. I think the base colour is probably cobalt

 

yes that is what i thought violet and grey what i was trying to say about the no dark and the see through grey that lets the violet show throw his base colour being cobalt but holding violet modifiyer (greyblue) what confused myself.

k if your still un sure ....

if he is a violet grey then best way to find out is to breed him to a mauve hen

out come being 25 violet,25 cobalt,25violet mauve,25 mauve

 

but if he is violet mauve on top of the grey

to breed him to the mauve hen would rezult in 50 mauve,50 violet mauve

 

if you dont have a mauve use a skyblue hen out come being 50 cobalt ,50 violet cobalt , if he is violet mauve on the grey

or

25 violet skyblue,25 skyblue,25 violet cobalt ,25 cobalt if a violet cobalt on top the grey

 

have fun when its his time