Yesterday I had a good look at my mum's budgies. I was totally surprised by how one of them looked.

I could swear Millie was born a spangle (in 1999 - she's still going strong!) I even have a picture of her as a baby. Her mother was a green spangle, and her father was unusual, but there's a thread about him somewhere else on here.

 

This is Millie as a baby:

 

Yesterday when I saw her, her head was still yellow and spangled. But she had olive completely all throughout her wings, but still had the spangle markings. There is no way that her wings were just a yellow continuation of her head, if you get what I mean. But.... she didn't always look like that! Sorry I don't have a current picture. Hopefully you can understand my description.

 

Is it possible that she was opaline all along but it only manifested more and more with each moult? Or, is she spangle and the colour is coming through her wings now for some other reason?

 

She's definitely a hen. That's what makes this all so puzzling.

 

Her mother was definitely NOT opaline.

 

Her parents:

Dad on the left, Mum in the middle... (ignore the dude on the right )

 

Sorry it's not totally clear.

 

 

So my question is -- could she be an opaline, and if so, why was she born looking like a spangle? If not, then why does she have coloured wings now?

Thanks

the picture of her when she was young does NOT indicate she was opaline.

 

She cannot change with age, as it is a mutation she has or does not have at birth, she cannot acquire it.

 

It is possible that she has what is called opalescance. There is where the colour bleeds into the wings a little, however she she has the bar on her head. She is not a true opaline. If she was a show bird, opalescnce would be seen as a major fault I am assuming.

 

That is all I can guess based upon your description. If you can take a snapshot in the future, it might give us a greater understanding and enable far more scholarly minds than mine to assist you.

Opaline is the reverse stripes on the head and the V between the shoulders what you are describing is very common in spangles where the body color runs through their wings. I always say opalines look look "bald", and no they can't change mutations like that.

NEW NEWS There is a whole lot of opaline spangles coming through now that have normal spangle markings in them. It is not widely known apart from show breeders who talk of it and its a very well known new development. I have a few as does other show breeders. It confuses people as they dont expect the black spangle markings though the wings when its an opaline so they think it isnt one when it is. The moult has made it clearer thats all.

Here is one of my opaline spangle babies

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 8, 200916 yr by KAZ

Kaz - she looks a lot like your last picture. She has a lot more olive in her wings than a spangle. Interesting!

 

I have had ones before which were spangle, started out with grey tipped markings on their wings, and then after a few moults, they had their blue body colour instead of the grey markings.. but were still spangles- the majority of each wing feather was still white. Is that opalescence?

 

Millie really looks olive all over her wings. I'll try to get a picture but it might not be for a while. But she does look pretty much like Kaz's last one (only not a show type)

Edited June 8, 200916 yr by krosp

From the photo father look to be an opaline spangle (something else too maybe). If so she HAS to be opaline - no other options for an opaline cock to normal hen pairing.

Edited June 8, 200916 yr by nubbly5

Very interesting Kaz! i have not seen one of these new opaline spangles. i love the dark spangles as normally the opaline washes them out

 

The cock bird looks opaline spangle to me too. So that would be where the opaline came from. Cocks are often split for opaline too which produces opaline hens.

From the photo father look to be an opaline spangle (something else too maybe). If so she HAS to be opaline - no other options for an opaline cock to normal hen pairing.

 

I'm trying to think back to the babies they had.... but sadly I have lost my records from back then.

 

I think this pair only had seven babies in total...

 

Two olive normal cocks

Three yellow cinnamon spangle hens (body colour was a dirty yellow - one of them may have been greywing instead of cinnamon)

Two olive spangle hens (including Millie- and I think the other one we lost fairly young)

 

It is possible that all of those hens showed some kind of opaline, but the yellow ones it would've been hard to tell because they looked quite yellow all over.

Her down looks white from here- telling its an opaline hen.

 

Father didnt have to be opaline- going by the results of the clutch he was split opaline as not all hens were opaline

i agree with Pie the down looks to be white which is a sign of Opaline in a chick.

 

also the dad looks to be an Opaline from that picture as well (Grey toned tail so maybe dilute?)

 

any chance of a picture of millie today??

Actually I thought it might be a few weeks before I can get a picture because next time I go there it's going to be at night. But maybe I can get my brother or my parents to take a photo of her in the day some time soon.

 

I'll dig up some more old ones of Sunny Boy and his other daughters too.

 

 

Never heard of white down being a sign of opaline... what is that, as opposed to light grey? I don't remember ever noticing a difference!

Yep the bright white down is opaline, the grey down is normal (or not opaline)

 

As opaline is inherited differntly in male/female it makes it easy to sex chicks before they feather up

No more of Millie yet... I'll ask my brother.

 

Here is more of Millie's dad (Sunny Boy)

 

 

 

Sorry that's all I have already uploaded that show his markings.

 

 

And here are Millie's sisters (also Sunny Boy's daughters)

 

 

Obviously over 10 years ago I wasn't taking quite so many photos. I think my digital camera only had a capacity of 13 photos in its memory and took ages to upload them

from those shots of the dad it is clear now he isn't opaline but it doesn't mean his daughters can't be. millies sister isn't opaline

im probbly wrong but that milly looks opaline clear wing anyway opaline or not he is probbly split maby his dad was split opaline and he had gene passed on either way she has white down as chick so must be opaline dad split or not opaline hen non split only opaline hens

norm hen x norm/opaline is norm/opaline cocks and norm cocks norm and opaline hens so i would say that dad and grandad /opaline but i dont know for sure

i wasn't saying Millie can't be opaline still just that the dad in those pictures doesn't appear opaline now, his body colour has been affected due to his mutation but his wings are still yellow, which is normal for a green line bird

*UPDATE*

 

This is Millie today (at about 10 years old)

 

For those who asked for a current picture! I really think her head looks opaline but she was obviously a spangle baby.

 

 

She's an opaline spangle :celebrate: Dark green or olive...

She is definitely an opaline spangle. The body colour on the wings and the fine head markings are 100% opaline. But she still does have nice spangle markings - one of those opaline spangles where the black markings are not completely replaced by body colour.

 

Grey green I'd say Libby - cheek patches more steel blue than the violet of dark green or olive.

Edited August 16, 200915 yr by nubbly5

Wow... Kaz said this type of opaline spangle with markings is a "new development" lol maybe Millie is really ahead of the times as she is quite old.

I don't know how I missed this thread back in June.

 

Millie is a grey green opaline spangle. In the first picture the opaline is not very obvious because she is heavily flecked and the markings are dark, but you can see it. Flecking on an opaline chick often moults out. The dark markings are probably caused by the grey factor she has inherited from her father. Millie's father appears to be a grey green opaline dilute. He is definately opaline so all his daughters must also be opaline. Millie's sisters that are pictured here are certainly opaline

Thanks Neville.

 

I had a thread a little while back about Millie's father - Sunny Boy. I can't remember anyone saying he was opaline back then, I will have to dig it up.

 

I didn't realise dilutes could make him look so bright.... as in, he's not a pastel colour, he looked quite bright a yellow just that the greygreen part was extremely dilute. I think you are right as his markings were always extremely feint but the same kind of "pattern" as normal.