have you kept budgies in the house before? if you have then i think you would understand the reasons why people do it, even though you may not practise it yourself - at least you could understand the reasons for doing so and respect their decisions for doing it.

can everyone please stop arguing and agree to disagree. Anyone coming onthis forum right now would run a mile. I've already upset tamoholic.

have you kept budgies in the house before

 

actually i have a good few years ago more than i would like to remember before i got into keeping birds as a hobby

If you are trimming for personal reasons and not safety reasons, so what?  You are.  That is just the fact.  It does not make anyone a bad person, it does not mean they should not have a bird, it does not mean there is anything wrong with them whatsoever.

now thats just wrong i can just about get my head round a saftey reason... but for personal reasons, if a person dosent have enough common sense to keep a fully flying bird safe then, no i dont think that they should have a pet bird. just wingclipping for personal reasons is totally selfish. there are other pets available that dont need to be put through this kind of thing just to fit in with a person.

 

The animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not made for humans any more than black people were made for whites or women for men!

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Andy, did I say what those personal reasons might be? No, I did not. Are you saying someone who is handicapped or in a wheelchair or for whatever other reason is not physically able to chase a fully flighted bird around the house should not have one for companionship? I can come up with more scenarios if you need them, but the point was that there are more reasons than we normally think of for the things people do. :glare:

 

There may be other pets that would fit in with that person, but what if they really love birds and can care for them extraordinarily well in other aspects? How can you dictate who should and should not have a bird?

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Im sure that a handicapped person is more likley to not want another creature handicapped as they know what it is like!

 

it seems that people who do clip or have clipped in the past have a more open minded view to bird keeping than the people that dont. 

this is beacuase people who wouldnt clip their birds generally wouldnt atually do it in the first place!

 

it doesnt take a genious to understand that when a bird is happy it sings and is generally more vocal than it used to be, is more confident and outgoing and no longer afraid of big scary people around the house, will willingly fly to its owner and generally be very cheeky and cheerful in nature.

so was this a sudden change!?!?!? wow... or was it that ince he was forced to be with you he got more used to you?

i am open minded just need persuading and nobody has yet

precisley.. no offence but it seems like you are just coming up with excuses for your actions, not reasons for doing it in the first place

it was not a sudden change at all, but i do not believe that things would be as good as they are now if i didnot have his wings trimmed.

 

i am not making excuses but i am fed up to the back teeth of trying to justify my reasons to everyone. i do not feel that my decisions and opinions have been valued or respected, even though i respect that some people would never clip their budgies wings and i would never seek to persuade them to do it - because that would be disrespectful to their opinions and beliefs.

 

i will play no further part in this dicussion. it is giving me a head ache.

i to am going to stop here although pixie and myself have had a good discussion (sorry for the head ache),i introduced the word disabled instead of clip to evoke a responce i am now regretting it slightly this was not aimed at pixie personally but was unfortunatly she who responded i just wanted to add a differrent aspect. so once again pixie i appologise for putting the bait there for someone to take nothing was aimed at you personally.

but for the record what i said i do mean i am open minded so please keep trying to change my mind you never know it might happen.

some of the posts are now getting a little heated so please step back take a breath myself and rainbow dont really want to delete posts i did consider closing this thread but thought better as i have a feelling i fuelled the fires a little so i appologise to everyone and i think ill stick to yea or nea answers from now on a read everyone elses posts

you sound like you are apologising Hath.

If everyone had the same opinions then the world would be a dull place.

I love a good discussion. Thats what the thread has been all about. I don't think anyone has been personal. everyone is entitled to air their opinion. But lets end this thread here.

i agree, i love a good discussion to exercise my opinions sometimes, i think its a good thing.

 

despite that i think i will leave this topic alone for a while! (thanks for that hath! dont worry about the head ache!)

 

peace :angel1:

yeah it seems that we are just going round in circles with the arguments

 

i know most of us just want the best for our budgies

 

i think it should probarbly be left unless anybody has som new information to add

 

im just gonna supply a list of all the pros and cons that have been gathered together over this post

 

i think that the benefits/cons to the budgie are much more important

 

Pros

For budgie

1.keeps them out of danger

2.they can STILL fly (to a certain extent if done correctly)

3.budgies have 'proved' that they can be just as happy and outgoing and enjoy exercise

For Owner

1.it helps GREATLY in taming

2.can easily take budgie into different rooms

3.can trust the budgie outside the cage more

4.saves you time in training

5.if you can not physically able to chase a fully flighted bird around the house should be able to have one for companionship.

Cons

For budgie

1.Badly clipped wings can so often lead to broken keel bones, broken legs, and death.

2.leaves a bird looking mutilated

3.they cant easily get out of danger coming towards them like a cat coming into the room

4.Flying is great exercise clipped wing can lead to underdeveloped mucles

5.there can be psycological effects aswell as the physical ones e.g. stress leading to feather plucking

6.a little common sense can stop most hazards around the home

7.They are extremely intelligent and they do learn. Like children falling off a bike, they DO get the hang of it.

8.Young birds who have their flight feathers clipped do not ever become good fliers even if their flight feathers are left intact in subsequent years

9.What wing clipping does is take away what is their God given right - the power of flight

10.Also when re-growing new feathers these are filled with blood and are far more susceptible to damage from accidents such as the bird trying to fly and crash landing.

11.It can result in infections

12. this has been proven there is an increase in the stress/pain hormone

For Owner

1.a much better feeling if you know that they choose to be with you

2.can still get a tame budgie - If you want to tame your bird introduce your finger to it every day until the bird becomes use to your advances

 

 

i think you can draw your own conclusions froms this and i think i have been genorous on the advantages and have tried to list all that i could find... i hope people think this is a full and accurate list

 

Andy.

eh, nice topic here! Very interesting points.

 

Ill say this:

I hate it and I will never do it.

 

Its up to you to decide what you chose to do with your pet. I would suggest you dont clip.

hehehe is opend once again

ATD

Seriously, this is a word of advice for anyone else planning on asking this question on here.....DON'T!!!! You'll get confused and won't know what to do!!! Wing clipping is a personal choice and everyone has different opinions.

I second that

Seriously, this is a word of advice for anyone else planning on asking this question on here.....DON'T!!!!

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I don't agree. I imagine that we wouldn't want anyone to not ask a question just because it may be controversial. :yelling: If there is a sincere desire to learn behind the asking, no question is wrong. However a database search should already be the first thing you do before posting a new question anyway, as what you are looking for may have already been answered in a previous thread. In this particular instance, it has been discussed plenty. But any further questions on this topic that have not been addressed already are, of course, welcome.

I wasn't refering to any question other than this one. It's just that this questions has been asked many times and always gets exactly the same response.