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Double Dom Pied Or Single Dom?

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Hi All. A recent first time hen of mine had a cluch of 3 eggs but only one hatched. I'm not complaining because it is a gorgeous baby girl, and of course I'm probably biased. The question however, is since the cock is a double factor spangle (with suffusion... almost violet, but probably just cobalt) and the hen is a dom pied spangle opaline mauve violet, I'm not really sure if the baby is a single dom pied or double dom pied. I suspect the cock could be a dom pied because his suffusion seems to have a clear band.

 

Any ideas?

 

Cock

DSC03318.jpg

 

Hen

DSC03051.jpg

DSC03054.jpg

 

Chick

DSC04478.jpg

DSC04475.jpg

DSC04489.jpg

Hi All. A recent first time hen of mine had a cluch of 3 eggs but only one hatched. I'm not complaining because it is a gorgeous baby girl, and of course I'm probably biased. The question however, is since the cock is a double factor spangle (with suffusion... almost violet, but probably just cobalt) and the hen is a dom pied spangle opaline mauve violet, I'm not really sure if the baby is a single dom pied or double dom pied. I suspect the cock could be a dom pied because his suffusion seems to have a clear band.

 

Any ideas?

 

Cock

DSC03318.jpg

 

Hen

DSC03051.jpg

DSC03054.jpg

 

Chick

DSC04478.jpg

DSC04475.jpg

DSC04489.jpg

Very elegant little girl

All colour removing genes can mask other mutations. The only reason ino is said to mask anything is because there is no pigmentation left. Any other mutations would express as normal, except all in white or yellow depending on the bird.

 

Dark eyed clear, double factor spangle and even a heavily whited/yellowed out DF dom pied can mask any other gene. The genes are still there, you just cant tell without the normal markings or colourations to show.

 

EDIT: Chick looks SF dom pied with a lot of clear feather. There is still too much colour/markings to be DF though i think. Nubbly is right, it'll come down to breeding :)

Edited by Dean_NZ

Not being a pied expert I'll have to bow to the greater experience in whether the pied baby is DF or SF...... :) but I think the possibility that it could happen is there if the DF spangle is indeed a dom pied as well. The proof will be in the breeding of the baby - if all it ever breeds are dom pieds you know it is DF, if it breeds normals AND dom pieds then it's SF.

  • Author

I didn't realise the discussion this thread was going to take:

 

Thanks Richo, "elegant" is the perfect description for her. Maybe I'll name her Elly.

 

I also thought double factor spangle can mask other genectic factors just like ino. Like wearing a white trench coat.

Just got the visual image of a budgie in a trench coat......... dirty old man budgie......... :)

The cock is clearly not a double factor spangle because if he was the chick would be spangle which it is not. The cock looks like a spangle dominant pied and the chick is double factor dominant pied.

 

Double factor spangles can mask other mutations in the same way as inos mask them but if a double factor spangle was masking a mutation you wouldn't be able to see the mutation

Sorry Neville - the chick is definitely a spangle, but a spangle dom pied - the spangle markings are quite clearly visable on the wings.

I am putting myself out on a limb nere but I must be blind :hb: as I can't see the spangle markings on the wings :hi:

Very definitely spangle markings. Have a look on the shoulder of the bird where the black markings are - they are definitely the anchor shape of spangle markings (black rimmed with black going into the quill of the feather) not normal markings which are close to solid.

 

Compare these 2 with similar dom pied markings.

 

ringo-marine-egg.jpgDSC04478.jpg

 

 

Nerwen - hope you don't mind that I borrowed a picture of Ringo!

Edited by nubbly5

Sorry Neville - the chick is definitely a spangle, but a spangle dom pied - the spangle markings are quite clearly visable on the wings.

I have bred plenty of spangle dominant pieds and I do not believe that chick is one

Edited by Neville

I'd have to agree and say its a spangle dom pied. Look at the few wing markings it has on the shoulder, they are scalloped like any other spangle. Its hard to spot, but im pretty sure its there. Clearly different to the two in the other picture.

Very definitely spangle markings. Have a look on the shoulder of the bird where the black markings are - they are definitely the anchor shape of spangle markings (black rimmed with black going into the quill of the feather) not normal markings which are close to solid.

 

Compare these 2 with similar dom pied markings.

 

ringo-marine-egg.jpgDSC04478.jpg

 

 

Nerwen - hope you don't mind that I borrowed a picture of Ringo!

I agree ...this is the same markings as all of my spangle dom pieds. You can see the "anchor" type shape of the markings that are synonymous with spangle.

If you put that bird in a show cage & asked the the passing trade,what they thought it was,most would say

dom pied,it only that you know,it has spangle in it that you are calling it dom pied spangle.

No macka I'm sorry I disagree with you on this one, as a show manager I would consider this bird to be a spangle dominant pied i.e. the combination of both varities in the visual form and I would expect my stewards to be able to recognise it as such too. And although on the matrix it would be benched as a dom pied due to the dom pied being the higher numbered class the bird still bears the features of both varieties.

Here is a good example of a spangle dom pied...note the anchor shaped feather markings that nubbly is talking about.

AFFA062.jpg

Here is a good example of a spangle dom pied...note the anchor shaped feather markings that nubbly is talking about.

AFFA062.jpg

Yes Kaz,I will agree, this is a good example of spangle dom pied.

  • Author

I always thought she is a spangle too. It might be harder to actually see clearly because she appears to be a opaline mauve also. So the mauve is blending slightly with the markings, But I thought the one large oval lined feather at the bottom was the clear give away, but "anchor" markings are a great way to see it too.

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