Why is it that Clearflight Pied and Dominant Pied both are very similar? I mean, Dominant Pied has the patch on the back of the head and the bar of white across the body, and a lot of Dominant Pieds I have seen have clear flight feathers. Also, one of my Clearflight Pied birds has white on either side of her body, so if there was a bit more white there would be a bar across the front of her body, as well as the clear flight feathers and patch at the back of the head. You can sort of see what I'm talking about on Kyra, in my signature.

So why are they so similar, and yet you can get DF Dominant Pieds but I have never heard of a DF Clearflight Pied? I can understand why you might'nt get DF Rec. Pieds but Clearflight and Dominant Pieds are so similar..

Thanks for any help, this was just a random thought that popped into my head today.

Edited February 23, 200916 yr by Jen144

I have been thinking the exact same question. I often see dominant pieds with clear flight feathers and I wander, why cant it be a clearflight pied?

Yes, my thoughts exactly! And why Clearflight Pieds have hints of a bar across their chest too, like Dominant Pieds..

clearflights OR Dutch dominant pied were first recorded in the UK area.

 

Dominant or banded or Australia dominant pied were recorded here in AUS.

Why is it that Clearflight Pied and Dominant Pied both are very similar? I mean, Dominant Pied has the patch on the back of the head and the bar of white across the body, and a lot of Dominant Pieds I have seen have clear flight feathers. Also, one of my Clearflight Pied birds has white on either side of her body, so if there was a bit more white there would be a bar across the front of her body, as well as the clear flight feathers and patch at the back of the head. You can sort of see what I'm talking about on Kyra, in my signature.

So why are they so similar, and yet you can get DF Dominant Pieds but I have never heard of a DF Clearflight Pied? I can understand why you might'nt get DF Rec. Pieds but Clearflight and Dominant Pieds are so similar..

Thanks for any help, this was just a random thought that popped into my head today.

 

The Pied Category has 3 mutations: Recessive Pieds, Dominant Pieds and Clearflighted Pieds. They share characteristics but also subtle differences.

 

It's like looking at Opalines, you have Green & Blue Opalines and the AOSV Opalines which include Greywings and Cinnamonwings ....

 

Hope that helps.

Well I suppose it would help if I knew what AOSV Opalines were lol...But I think I get what you're saying, they are 3 mutations of the same sort of type, so they do have things in common of course.

But, is there such a thing as DF Clearflight Pieds? Would it be possible that there are, and they look like Df Dominant Pieds? I mean, they have a lot of similarities and the bar across their front for Dominant Pieds and the clear flight feathers vary a lot..so how would you tell if your bird is Clearflight Pied or Dominant Pied, if it has both, a patch of white on the front and clear flight feathers?

Or..how do you know they aren't actually the same mutation? If they occured in different places there's a chance they could be the same mutation but look slightly different because of the fact they appeared in different places, so how they appeared is different..or something..if that made sense!

Just a few questions, lol.

Edited February 23, 200916 yr by Jen144

Well I suppose it would help if I knew what AOSV Opalines were lol...But I think I get what you're saying, they are 3 mutations of the same sort of type, so they do have things in common of course.

But, is there such a thing as DF Clearflight Pieds? Would it be possible that there are, and they look like Df Dominant Pieds? I mean, they have a lot of similarities and the bar across their front for Dominant Pieds and the clear flight feathers vary a lot..so how would you tell if your bird is Clearflight Pied or Dominant Pied, if it has both, a patch of white on the front and clear flight feathers?

Or..how do you know they aren't actually the same mutation? If they occured in different places there's a chance they could be the same mutation but look slightly different because of the fact they appeared in different places, so how they appeared is different..or something..if that made sense!

Just a few questions, lol.

okay a DF Domi Pied is produced when you breed 2 Domi Pieds together and it doesn't look like a Domi Pied, more like a very long Recessive with an iris ring.

 

You know when you have bred a Clearflighted Pied because the flights are either white or yellow AND because either one of the parents is a Clearflighted Pied.

Another thread of confusion.

 

Australian Dominant Pied (ADP) also know as ...... Australian Pied, Dominant Pied, Banded Pied, Clearflighted Pied.

 

Dutch Pied (DP) also known as ...... Dutch Dominant Pied, Continental Clearflight Pied, Frosted Pied

 

Recessive Pied (RP) also known as ...... Danish Pied, Danish Recessive Pied, Harlequin

 

The ADP cannot produce Dark Eyed Clears (DEC) when paired to a RP, but a DP can.

Both can be had in Double Factor form and contrary to popular belief cannot be visually identified from a Single Factor. Only appropriate pairing will verify.

 

All pieds carry a head spot of varying size. All Pieds are subject to a degree of variation in pied pattern inheritence. There does however seem to be some things constant with each. ADP's tend to have clear flights of varying number. generally starting from the outer wing edge and working inwards the melanin will be removed. DP on the other hand can an do have flight feathers which may or may not be grizzled and one feather can show both black and ground colour at the same time.

 

The pied pattern on the body of the ADP's have a tendancy to form a band across the centre of the body. It can be broken to varying degrees. It seems that the more pied pattern on the body the more likely there is to be pied pattern appearing on the back within the undulations. Also the demarkion of the pied areas are quite precise and well delineated. There is no grizzling. ADP also have a more of a tendancy to lack an iris ring in one eye, also pied out ceres and pink feet. Beak usually stays horn colour.

 

 

DP pattern tends to appear on the upper half of the body and as more pied pattern is found the further the pattern will spread. There is not the precise delineation of pied areas as in the ADP. A grizzled affect can often be found. Certain DP also tend to have a frosted appearance. This is an opalesence that is visable with out the presence of Opaline. It is also not uncommon for a DP to look almost Normal in appearance. I have never come across a DP who has an iris in one eye only. The cere is not as strong in blue but the beak usually stays horn and the feet can be pink but mostly are seen as blue/grey.

Another thread of confusion.

 

Australian Dominant Pied (ADP) also know as ...... Australian Pied, Dominant Pied, Banded Pied, Clearflighted Pied.

 

Dutch Pied (DP) also known as ...... Dutch Dominant Pied, Continental Clearflight Pied, Frosted Pied

 

Recessive Pied (RP) also known as ...... Danish Pied, Danish Recessive Pied, Harlequin

 

The ADP cannot produce Dark Eyed Clears (DEC) when paired to a RP, but a DP can.

Both can be had in Double Factor form and contrary to popular belief cannot be visually identified from a Single Factor. Only appropriate pairing will verify.

 

All pieds carry a head spot of varying size. All Pieds are subject to a degree of variation in pied pattern inheritence. There does however seem to be some things constant with each. ADP's tend to have clear flights of varying number. generally starting from the outer wing edge and working inwards the melanin will be removed. DP on the other hand can an do have flight feathers which may or may not be grizzled and one feather can show both black and ground colour at the same time.

 

The pied pattern on the body of the ADP's have a tendancy to form a band across the centre of the body. It can be broken to varying degrees. It seems that the more pied pattern on the body the more likely there is to be pied pattern appearing on the back within the undulations. Also the demarkion of the pied areas are quite precise and well delineated. There is no grizzling. ADP also have a more of a tendancy to lack an iris ring in one eye, also pied out ceres and pink feet. Beak usually stays horn colour.

 

 

DP pattern tends to appear on the upper half of the body and as more pied pattern is found the further the pattern will spread. There is not the precise delineation of pied areas as in the ADP. A grizzled affect can often be found. Certain DP also tend to have a frosted appearance. This is an opalesence that is visable with out the presence of Opaline. It is also not uncommon for a DP to look almost Normal in appearance. I have never come across a DP who has an iris in one eye only. The cere is not as strong in blue but the beak usually stays horn and the feet can be pink but mostly are seen as blue/grey.

 

Hmmmmmmmm. I'm under the distinct impression that Dominat Pieds (aka Banded Pieds) are similar but different to Clearflighted Pieds although at a Show both would be shown in the same class: Austrialian Dominant Pieds.

 

Is that what you mean RIP?

 

The reason for the distinction is that this year's ammendments to the ANBC Standard included a full and comprehensive description of Clearflighted Pieds so as to distinguish from the other 'dominant" variety.

Another thread of confusion.

 

Australian Dominant Pied (ADP) also know as ...... Australian Pied, Dominant Pied, Banded Pied, Clearflighted Pied.

 

Dutch Pied (DP) also known as ...... Dutch Dominant Pied, Continental Clearflight Pied, Frosted Pied

 

Recessive Pied (RP) also known as ...... Danish Pied, Danish Recessive Pied, Harlequin

 

The ADP cannot produce Dark Eyed Clears (DEC) when paired to a RP, but a DP can.

Both can be had in Double Factor form and contrary to popular belief cannot be visually identified from a Single Factor. Only appropriate pairing will verify.

 

All pieds carry a head spot of varying size. All Pieds are subject to a degree of variation in pied pattern inheritence. There does however seem to be some things constant with each. ADP's tend to have clear flights of varying number. generally starting from the outer wing edge and working inwards the melanin will be removed. DP on the other hand can an do have flight feathers which may or may not be grizzled and one feather can show both black and ground colour at the same time.

 

The pied pattern on the body of the ADP's have a tendancy to form a band across the centre of the body. It can be broken to varying degrees. It seems that the more pied pattern on the body the more likely there is to be pied pattern appearing on the back within the undulations. Also the demarkion of the pied areas are quite precise and well delineated. There is no grizzling. ADP also have a more of a tendancy to lack an iris ring in one eye, also pied out ceres and pink feet. Beak usually stays horn colour.

 

 

DP pattern tends to appear on the upper half of the body and as more pied pattern is found the further the pattern will spread. There is not the precise delineation of pied areas as in the ADP. A grizzled affect can often be found. Certain DP also tend to have a frosted appearance. This is an opalesence that is visable with out the presence of Opaline. It is also not uncommon for a DP to look almost Normal in appearance. I have never come across a DP who has an iris in one eye only. The cere is not as strong in blue but the beak usually stays horn and the feet can be pink but mostly are seen as blue/grey.

 

Hmmmmmmmm. I'm under the distinct impression that Dominat Pieds (aka Banded Pieds) are similar but different to Clearflighted Pieds although at a Show both would be shown in the same class: Austrialian Dominant Pieds.

 

Is that what you mean RIP?

 

The reason for the distinction is that this year's ammendments to the ANBC Standard included a full and comprehensive description of Clearflighted Pieds so as to distinguish from the other 'dominant" variety.

 

The Dutch Pied had never been favoured by the ANBC side of things. If it was to dissappear into obliviation I don't think to many people would care.

There have been naming misnomers for years and it still continues today. Probably worse now with the advent of the internet. Unfortunately those who control the colour and standards are not always that well informed or suitably experienced in the varieties. Just because somebody has been breeding budgies for 20, 30 or 40 years it does not neccessarily mean they know there stuff. I have seen a great many people come and go in the fancy and some picked up things quickly and others just don't get it.

 

I personally don't like the use of the term Clearflight as it is too precise. It also is confused with the Continental Clearflight. There are three pied types (actually there are 5 but two of them are not recognised as pieds) and they should stay as they are and shown as such and a standard written to accomodate the variations of each. Pied horse classes don't put up with this level of **** and there are many variations there. I am not a 100% sure but the variegated pied in the standard was written to cater for those pieds that could not be identified and is has just not been changed. I spent many an hour, read a lot of literature, Spoke to overseas breeders of yesteryear, such as Ken Gray, and bred the budgies to discover the truth.

 

I personally believe that a national body should be trying to make sure that all varieties are kept in existance not aid in there dissappearance. The budgie fancy some 60 years ago was a far more exciting place than it is today.

Another thread of confusion.

 

Australian Dominant Pied (ADP) also know as ...... Australian Pied, Dominant Pied, Banded Pied, Clearflighted Pied.

 

Dutch Pied (DP) also known as ...... Dutch Dominant Pied, Continental Clearflight Pied, Frosted Pied

 

Recessive Pied (RP) also known as ...... Danish Pied, Danish Recessive Pied, Harlequin

 

The ADP cannot produce Dark Eyed Clears (DEC) when paired to a RP, but a DP can.

Both can be had in Double Factor form and contrary to popular belief cannot be visually identified from a Single Factor. Only appropriate pairing will verify.

 

All pieds carry a head spot of varying size. All Pieds are subject to a degree of variation in pied pattern inheritence. There does however seem to be some things constant with each. ADP's tend to have clear flights of varying number. generally starting from the outer wing edge and working inwards the melanin will be removed. DP on the other hand can an do have flight feathers which may or may not be grizzled and one feather can show both black and ground colour at the same time.

 

The pied pattern on the body of the ADP's have a tendancy to form a band across the centre of the body. It can be broken to varying degrees. It seems that the more pied pattern on the body the more likely there is to be pied pattern appearing on the back within the undulations. Also the demarkion of the pied areas are quite precise and well delineated. There is no grizzling. ADP also have a more of a tendancy to lack an iris ring in one eye, also pied out ceres and pink feet. Beak usually stays horn colour.

 

 

DP pattern tends to appear on the upper half of the body and as more pied pattern is found the further the pattern will spread. There is not the precise delineation of pied areas as in the ADP. A grizzled affect can often be found. Certain DP also tend to have a frosted appearance. This is an opalesence that is visable with out the presence of Opaline. It is also not uncommon for a DP to look almost Normal in appearance. I have never come across a DP who has an iris in one eye only. The cere is not as strong in blue but the beak usually stays horn and the feet can be pink but mostly are seen as blue/grey.

 

Hmmmmmmmm. I'm under the distinct impression that Dominat Pieds (aka Banded Pieds) are similar but different to Clearflighted Pieds although at a Show both would be shown in the same class: Austrialian Dominant Pieds.

 

Is that what you mean RIP?

 

The reason for the distinction is that this year's ammendments to the ANBC Standard included a full and comprehensive description of Clearflighted Pieds so as to distinguish from the other 'dominant" variety.

 

The Dutch Pied had never been favoured by the ANBC side of things. If it was to dissappear into obliviation I don't think to many people would care.

There have been naming misnomers for years and it still continues today. Probably worse now with the advent of the internet. Unfortunately those who control the colour and standards are not always that well informed or suitably experienced in the varieties. Just because somebody has been breeding budgies for 20, 30 or 40 years it does not neccessarily mean they know there stuff. I have seen a great many people come and go in the fancy and some picked up things quickly and others just don't get it.

 

I personally don't like the use of the term Clearflight as it is too precise. It also is confused with the Continental Clearflight. There are three pied types (actually there are 5 but two of them are not recognised as pieds) and they should stay as they are and shown as such and a standard written to accomodate the variations of each. Pied horse classes don't put up with this level of **** and there are many variations there. I am not a 100% sure but the variegated pied in the standard was written to cater for those pieds that could not be identified and is has just not been changed. I spent many an hour, read a lot of literature, Spoke to overseas breeders of yesteryear, such as Ken Gray, and bred the budgies to discover the truth.

 

I personally believe that a national body should be trying to make sure that all varieties are kept in existance not aid in there dissappearance. The budgie fancy some 60 years ago was a far more exciting place than it is today.

 

I'm sorry, you've lost me. A simple yes or no would suffice.

Yes renee they are the same. It is all about VARIATION.

Yes renee they are the same. It is all about VARIATION.

 

- thank you rip for that its about time some one stated the truth about the pieds

they are the same ...im glad some one finally pointed that out

 

the thing is so many dom pies were breed to rec pies forming this kind of split linkage and now we have dom pies who dont comply to show standeds but their still doms

and they can through a percentage of both dom or rec depending on their family linkage

:anim_19: for you rip :rofl:

oh and the black eye selfs they are one of the pie catorgories

all though they are either yellow or white

You also have to be on the look out for the Australian Dominant and Dutch Pied crosses. These can be mostly found in pet type circles and have been bred together usually because owners don't know they have two different types of pieds.

 

Dark Eyed Clears are a pied. It is the end reaction of two particular pied types namely Recessive Pied and Dutch Pied. It suggests there is some linkage involved and it is sometime seen Danish looking like Dutch and Dutch that look like Danish.

 

The other Special Pied types are Spangle and Mottle. As well as a Head Spot Pied. The later is rarely seen as it is usually found in regular pied types and so goes un-noticed.

The other Special Pied types are Spangle and Mottle. As well as a Head Spot Pied. The later is rarely seen as it is usually found in regular pied types and so goes un-noticed.

 

Wow! Does anyone have any photos?

You also have to be on the look out for the Australian Dominant and Dutch Pied crosses. These can be mostly found in pet type circles and have been bred together usually because owners don't know they have two different types of pieds.

 

Dark Eyed Clears are a pied. It is the end reaction of two particular pied types namely Recessive Pied and Dutch Pied. It suggests there is some linkage involved and it is sometime seen Danish looking like Dutch and Dutch that look like Danish.

 

The other Special Pied types are Spangle and Mottle. As well as a Head Spot Pied. The later is rarely seen as it is usually found in regular pied types and so goes un-noticed.

 

do you have picture of head spoted pied rip you talking about a spangle with the spot like a dom pie spot not just the two feathers representing the rec gene being precent yeah ?

i need two see what the head spot pie looks like

You also have to be on the look out for the Australian Dominant and Dutch Pied crosses. These can be mostly found in pet type circles and have been bred together usually because owners don't know they have two different types of pieds.

 

Dark Eyed Clears are a pied. It is the end reaction of two particular pied types namely Recessive Pied and Dutch Pied. It suggests there is some linkage involved and it is sometime seen Danish looking like Dutch and Dutch that look like Danish.

 

The other Special Pied types are Spangle and Mottle. As well as a Head Spot Pied. The later is rarely seen as it is usually found in regular pied types and so goes un-noticed.

 

do you have picture of head spoted pied rip you talking about a spangle with the spot like a dom pie spot not just the two feathers representing the rec gene being precent yeah ?

i need two see what the head spot pie looks like

 

Unfortunately no photos around that I am aware of. Generally most people don't know they have something new until they have got rid of it. When talking to people they will then say something like "oh yeah I had a bird just like that" when asked if they took photos they generally reply "nah, just thought that was how it is suppose to be". 99% of the population wouldn't have a clue. Makes you wonder how many changes and been and gone in back yard avairies.

just asked as have a very weird baby

from a white hen, who was breed from a rec pied hen and a clearflighted spangle

i then breed her to a yf2 opaline skyblue spangle /rec pie /cinnimon who i breed from,

a yf2 par blue rec pie and an opaline cinn sky violet spangle hen

and i think it is a heavily marked yf2 cobalt (par blue )spangle pied

its head spot is the size of a dom pies and its flights are yellow fadeing to white tail feather yellow

i do have lots picture of it and will post soon as i am able as i do want someone to help me put it into a mutation catagorie

just hoped you would have a picture

thanks anyhow

piccies would help there GB

 

Spangles when first breed had a lot of pieds used into the mix and so that is why they appear with the spot of their head.