I reckon your bird is a Double Factor Goldenface(YF2). There is just too much yellow in the tail for it to be a Single Factor Yellowface Mutant 1 (YF1).

 

I saw this in another thread and didn't want to hijack it so I started a new topic...

 

I always thought that YF2 and Goldenface were two seperate genes.. is this not the case?

Yes I noticed that too..you beat me to making a thread about it. I'd be interested to see the answer..

Personally I thought goldenface was a pretty much a brighter yf, but a different mutation..that's all I know.

I am going on what you guys keep putting up on threads. You keep making references to YF1 when a bird with a yellow only face turns up regardless of it's actuall genetic designation. If the bird shows even the slightest spillage of yellow into the body you label it as YF2 even though it is a YF1.

 

YF2 seems to be used when you decided it is "seafoam" in colour to use other words, not mine. Most every one here has no real understanding about Yellowfaces and still insist on using outdated terminolgy.

 

As I have said before there are three mutations of yellowface birds:

 

YF mutant 1 single factor has a yellow face and their can be some spillage but because the yellow is not as intense as YF mutant 2 the spillage is not as noticable. The fainter the yellow the less obvious the spillage. The double factor is white faced.

 

YF mutant 2 single factor has yellow face with yellow through the body giving a sea green colour. The double factor has the yellow restricted more to the facial area. Some spillage will occur but may not be as noticable depending on the body colour of the bird. This particular mutatn was known only to exist in the UK and was beening bred by Ken Gray. Even Ken himself has never proven beyound a show of a doubt that this mutant and the GF are one and the same.

 

Goldenface single and double factor is the same as for Mutant 2 but it seems the GF has a brighter yellow. This is the bird used by Keston Foriegn Bird Farms to produce rainbows.

Edited January 16, 200916 yr by RIPbudgies

this is going to be areally good trhread . ive been wanting to know what the go is with yf1 , yf2 and goldenface . i just thought goldenface was yf2 , though i dont know where i got that idea from to begin with

RIP don't go by what we say we are "novices" I just learned from Neville about the YF1 fault so please use what you have learned correctly and teach us , I would rather have it that way then live in my world where I think I am right ....hehe...

RIP can you show me any pictures of birds that you would consider to be each one (yf1 yf2 and gf1 gf 2)? I would be very interested to see... I only know what I've read on this site, I still can't tell the difference between any, when people say yf1 it seems like it is a lot pailer but I'm not sure if that is just coincidence or what...

JB there is a link in the FAQ under Mutation that takes you to Ravengypsy's site she has excellent pictures showing this too if RIP doesn't have pics or time to post right now .

It may just be my computer but for some reason the link to ravengypsy's site doesn't work..(and hasn't for quite a while) does it work for anyone else?

I'd really like to see the differences between these mutations..How would you tell yf1 from double factor yf2, and from gf 1 and 2?

Thank you for letting me know it must have been over the last couple months, she must have taken it down. I will take it out of the FAQ's.

just adding my 2 bob worth ...

When i reply on here or talking to other breeders at meetings I am use to using my "wording" with the YF1 & 2 and GF. Whether it be "politically correct" or not like most breeders they use the terms that they were taught ie referring to a "yellow" and "buff" they are OLD SCHOOL terms too which are still used today by top show breeders ... I guess it is they way we get taught and brought up in the hobby

 

There are breeders out there that will tell you that a YF1 is a Cream face bird and a YF2 is a Bright face bird and a Golden was is an Electric Yellow faced bird ....

 

Then there are those that class how far the yellowing goes over the head and down the chest to class it a YF1/2

 

But it could be the same discussion with a Creamino technically it isn't a creamino it is a YF albino

 

Just putting it out there

just adding my 2 bob worth ...

When i reply on here or talking to other breeders at meetings I am use to using my "wording" with the YF1 & 2 and GF. Whether it be "politically correct" or not like most breeders they use the terms that they were taught ie referring to a "yellow" and "buff" they are OLD SCHOOL terms too which are still used today by top show breeders ... I guess it is they way we get taught and brought up in the hobby

 

There are breeders out there that will tell you that a YF1 is a Cream face bird and a YF2 is a Bright face bird and a Golden was is an Electric Yellow faced bird ....

 

Then there are those that class how far the yellowing goes over the head and down the chest to class it a YF1/2

 

But it could be the same discussion with a Creamino technically it isn't a creamino it is a YF albino

 

Just putting it out there

 

 

good point mate we are all right just behind times

i was brought up with old school

eg sea foam green(for sky blue yf2) and aqua marine (for a colbolt yf2)

harlequin(for a sky blue gf recessive OR SHOULD I SAY danish hee he

pie their are so many changes since i started breeding 25years ago almost or their abouts

and i got taught the latest to date show terms and colours

i am lost nowdays so stick to what i know

 

my belief was that the yellow face and golden face is diffrent

anything with yellow in or on its wings

type two pos gf depending on colour depth

anything with yellow going through wings and into chest type 2

anything sea foam or aqua marine type two golden face as the yellow is so concentrated the whole body changes

these are what the rainbows are made with that rip was referring to that chick that did them first

(sorry not good remembering names )

and gf a buttercup yellow with the wings slightly affected but only just

yf1 only pale yellow face also known as cream

man i dont know but i just class anything yellow faced as depending on depth and intill i need to know for genetic reasons leave it that way

if i need to know and dont know the background i breed to a white faced bird i know is no way carrying yellow anything takes two generations some times three but i get a definant answer and well thats me

if anyone could post definant pics of each type i would love them

as although i get the right bird in the end it takes years to define their proper typing

pushing back my end desire of out come

as i have taken guess before and was wrong breeding a bird i did not desire although still beautiful puting my hen out of use to me for a long span setting me back

so although i love yf i hate them...

what is needed is pics of defenent yf birds with known genetic history placed up so we can see the defenant different as it is very defenant once you have seen them all

 

 

 

 

 

i was no help was i

Edited January 17, 200916 yr by Neat

LOL GB you make me giggle - But you see where I was going with it ...

 

I have so many bloddy budgie books and mags and they all state different "terms" too ...

 

So in reality we shouldn't be so picky with the terms ...

 

 

UNLESS of course we are all show breeders then I guess we would go by the ANBC

I have even read that the Goldenface gene is not a different gene to the yellow face... I have no idea about any of it... I think someone should map the genome of a budgie to find out

I understand that we have all grown up with old school terms. I have also but have along the way sought out the latest information I can find. The lastest writings about Yellowfaces have been done by Peter Bergman (Sydney, Aust), Ken Yorke (Newcastle, Aust), Ken Gray (UK) and Terry Martin (QLD, Aust). You must also look at what mutations are avaialble in which countries also. Australia upto a few years ago only had Goldenfaces. Now we have Yellowface Mutant 1 and Goldenfaces so using the terms YF1 and YF2 here doesn't work as in the UK, YF1 = Yellowface mutant 1 and YF2 = Yellowface mutant 2 and GF = Goldenface. Don't forget you are on an international forum.

 

GB seems to have some sort of handle on at least putting them into a class of sorts. What I have seen on this forum is a lack of understand about the yellow "spillage" and this is causing the greatest concern for incorrect classification. No distinction is made regarding single or double factors. The bird that started this stread off is an example. Everybody straight away decided that because the yellow was confined to the face then the bird is a YF1 but a YF1 is a "creamface" or the pale yellow faced bird. You have not taken into consideration that a double factored GF or YF M2 will restrict the yellow to the face.

 

Show standards are one thing but don't take them literrally when you decide what a bird is cause it will send you down the wrong path. Show standards are exactly that a standard to acheive for the showing purposes of a particular variety. It is not an accurate identification tool. Show standards are usually written by those with little understanding of origin of a given variety and it is driven more by what is wanted on the shown bench rather then what may be achievable. Remember humans have a need to pigeon hole things.

 

Edited January 18, 200916 yr by RIPbudgies

okay, so YF1 is when the bird has a light yellow/cream coloured face. But how do I tell the difference between a yf2 and gf?

 

A yf1 when it is df will go white, correct? But a df yf2 and a df gf won't? is there such a thing as gf 2?

okay, so YF1 is when the bird has a light yellow/cream coloured face. But how do I tell the difference between a yf2 and gf?

 

A yf1 when it is df will go white, correct? But a df yf2 and a df gf won't? is there such a thing as gf 2?

 

In australia you only need to worry about YF M1 i.e. Creamface and GF i.e. Goldenface

The only reason Australia does not have the YF M2 is beacuse the government would not allow imports into Oz. Sure birds were smuggled both ways or from Oz to Europe and then to the UK. Not too many birds came from the UK into Oz.

 

Yes JB a df YF M1 is a white face bird.

 

Ken Grey's book Rainbow Budgerigars and constituent varieties clearly states the differences between the yellowface mutations. If you can get a copy of this book you'll will find it a worth while investment.

 

Both YF M2 and GF can be found in the double factored form. Below is a picture of one of my DF Goldenfaces I bred. Although it is hard to see as the quality of the picture is not the best, this bird does show some yellow on the back of the neck and there was some still in the wings and tail feathers and very slightly in the body. This is normal and will vary depending on the depth of the Sky, Cobalt, Violet or Mauve colouring as these themselves vary from bird to bird. Its called variation. All species must have variation in order to survive.

 

okay, so YF1 is when the bird has a light yellow/cream coloured face. But how do I tell the difference between a yf2 and gf?

 

A yf1 when it is df will go white, correct? But a df yf2 and a df gf won't? is there such a thing as gf 2?

 

In australia you only need to worry about YF M1 i.e. Creamface and GF i.e. Goldenface

The only reason Australia does not have the YF M2 is beacuse the government would not allow imports into Oz. Sure birds were smuggled both ways or from Oz to Europe and then to the UK. Not too many birds came from the UK into Oz.

 

Yes JB a df YF M1 is a white face bird.

 

Ken Grey's book Rainbow Budgerigars and constituent varieties clearly states the differences between the yellowface mutations. If you can get a copy of this book you'll will find it a worth while investment.

 

Both YF M2 and GF can be found in the double factored form. Below is a picture of one of my DF Goldenfaces I bred. Although it is hard to see as the quality of the picture is not the best, this bird does show some yellow on the back of the neck and there was some still in the wings and tail feathers and very slightly in the body. This is normal and will vary depending on the depth of the Sky, Cobalt, Violet or Mauve colouring as these themselves vary from bird to bird. Its called variation. All species must have variation in order to survive.

 

 

 

If Australia has no yf2..then a bright yellow faced bird with yellow all through the wings markings, head, and body (making it a sea green colour) is what exactly? A single factor gf?

So, let me see if I got this right. We (australia) have no yf2. So we only have yf1 (double factor, causing a white face bird, and single factor, which is a cream faced bird with little to no yellow in the body) and gf (double factor, which is as the picture above, and single factor, which is like a yf2, a sea green coloured bird as all the yellow goes throughout the entire body)??

 

And the bird I had asked about originally which caused this thread to be started..http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index.php?showtopic=24267&st=10&gopid=288649&

looks exactly like that picture above. What is she, a double factor gf, as her face is not cream coloured but a bright yellow?

Correct me if im wrong, but there are no DF YF1's. Pete burgmans article talks about a number of what he refers to as blue mutant or 'parblue' varieties, in that there are now in existance a number of 'faulty' and 'semi faulty' yellow pigment genes. If i recall, he refers to blue mutant genes B1 and B2. B1 is faulty, and a bird with B1B1 genes will be a white faced blue. As will a B2B2 bird. However, a yellowface type 1 occurs when a bird has B1 and B2, as singly they fail to produce a workable yellow pigment producing enzyme, but together they managa to partially compensate eachother and produce a weak 'lemon yellow' colour.

 

If i did remember that bit right, and pete burgman is also right, that would mean 2 type one yellowfaces (B1B2) would produce 25% b1b1 chicks (white faced blue), 25% b2b2 chicks (same again) and 50 % b1b2 chicks (typical yf1's).

 

At any rate, dont quote me on that lol. I have had to re-read pete's article a number of times just to learn it slowly.

 

**Post note** here is the link: Pete Burgman on yellowface genetics

okay, so YF1 is when the bird has a light yellow/cream coloured face. But how do I tell the difference between a yf2 and gf?

 

A yf1 when it is df will go white, correct? But a df yf2 and a df gf won't? is there such a thing as gf 2?

 

In australia you only need to worry about YF M1 i.e. Creamface and GF i.e. Goldenface

The only reason Australia does not have the YF M2 is beacuse the government would not allow imports into Oz. Sure birds were smuggled both ways or from Oz to Europe and then to the UK. Not too many birds came from the UK into Oz.

 

Yes JB a df YF M1 is a white face bird.

 

Ken Grey's book Rainbow Budgerigars and constituent varieties clearly states the differences between the yellowface mutations. If you can get a copy of this book you'll will find it a worth while investment.

 

Both YF M2 and GF can be found in the double factored form. Below is a picture of one of my DF Goldenfaces I bred. Although it is hard to see as the quality of the picture is not the best, this bird does show some yellow on the back of the neck and there was some still in the wings and tail feathers and very slightly in the body. This is normal and will vary depending on the depth of the Sky, Cobalt, Violet or Mauve colouring as these themselves vary from bird to bird. Its called variation. All species must have variation in order to survive.

 

 

 

If Australia has no yf2..then a bright yellow faced bird with yellow all through the wings markings, head, and body (making it a sea green colour) is what exactly? A single factor gf?

So, let me see if I got this right. We (australia) have no yf2. So we only have yf1 (double factor, causing a white face bird, and single factor, which is a cream faced bird with little to no yellow in the body) and gf (double factor, which is as the picture above, and single factor, which is like a yf2, a sea green coloured bird as all the yellow goes throughout the entire body)??

 

Correct

And the bird I had asked about originally which caused this thread to be started..http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index.php?showtopic=24267&st=10&gopid=288649&

looks exactly like that picture above. What is she, a double factor gf, as her face is not cream coloured but a bright yellow?

 

As I already said in my post in reply to your thread she is a double factored Goldenface. The definations of which yellowface is which is not decided by the confines of the yellow.

 

Here is another photo to ponder over. This cock is a single factor Goldenface Cobalt Grey(sf). He shows a slightly paler yellow face because of the family line he belonged and the fact he was a Cobalt Grey he shows only a small amount of yellow suffusion

 

 

As I keep mentioning variation. I had a particular family of Goldenfaces that excelled bright yellow faces. They could be the brighter yellow spoke of by Ken Gray. I had another line which I would say could well be like the YF M2 of the UK. All my GF did have one thing in common though I had managed to breed and beautifully natured line of birds many of which went on to produce the best pets some of which even went on to be good talkers. It's all in the genes.

okay, so YF1 is when the bird has a light yellow/cream coloured face. But how do I tell the difference between a yf2 and gf?

 

A yf1 when it is df will go white, correct? But a df yf2 and a df gf won't? is there such a thing as gf 2?

 

In australia you only need to worry about YF M1 i.e. Creamface and GF i.e. Goldenface

The only reason Australia does not have the YF M2 is beacuse the government would not allow imports into Oz. Sure birds were smuggled both ways or from Oz to Europe and then to the UK. Not too many birds came from the UK into Oz.

 

Yes JB a df YF M1 is a white face bird.

 

Ken Grey's book Rainbow Budgerigars and constituent varieties clearly states the differences between the yellowface mutations. If you can get a copy of this book you'll will find it a worth while investment.

 

Both YF M2 and GF can be found in the double factored form. Below is a picture of one of my DF Goldenfaces I bred. Although it is hard to see as the quality of the picture is not the best, this bird does show some yellow on the back of the neck and there was some still in the wings and tail feathers and very slightly in the body. This is normal and will vary depending on the depth of the Sky, Cobalt, Violet or Mauve colouring as these themselves vary from bird to bird. Its called variation. All species must have variation in order to survive.

 

 

 

If Australia has no yf2..then a bright yellow faced bird with yellow all through the wings markings, head, and body (making it a sea green colour) is what exactly? A single factor gf?

So, let me see if I got this right. We (australia) have no yf2. So we only have yf1 (double factor, causing a white face bird, and single factor, which is a cream faced bird with little to no yellow in the body) and gf (double factor, which is as the picture above, and single factor, which is like a yf2, a sea green coloured bird as all the yellow goes throughout the entire body)??

 

Correct

And the bird I had asked about originally which caused this thread to be started..http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index.php?showtopic=24267&st=10&gopid=288649&

looks exactly like that picture above. What is she, a double factor gf, as her face is not cream coloured but a bright yellow?

 

As I already said in my post in reply to your thread she is a double factored Goldenface. The definations of which yellowface is which is not decided by the confines of the yellow.

 

Here is another photo to ponder over. This cock is a single factor Goldenface Cobalt Grey(sf). He shows a slightly paler yellow face because of the family line he belonged and the fact he was a Cobalt Grey he shows only a small amount of yellow suffusion

 

 

As I keep mentioning variation. I had a particular family of Goldenfaces that excelled bright yellow faces. They could be the brighter yellow spoke of by Ken Gray. I had another line which I would say could well be like the YF M2 of the UK. All my GF did have one thing in common though I had managed to breed and beautifully natured line of birds many of which went on to produce the best pets some of which even went on to be good talkers. It's all in the genes.

 

 

im sorry rip but as beautiful as he is magnifisent i think he looks to be a yellow face type two as he is not got a golden face the other bird i agree on your prognossic lol as you can see i am not big word able

he i would say is only type 2 mutant goldenface 1 is the same as him but in my experiance deeper yellow

i say m2yf as he has the yellow through and down the wings but if it was golden face 1 the yellow would not suffuse all along his body

 

but hay i dont know just what i would class him

hay do you sell that book you mentioned and where can i get it

ps he is im sure what you classed him as he is your bird but i belive his yellow to be to light kazzy has a fantastic goldenface boy type 1 and he is so much more golden hence the name.. thats whey i beg to differ as i said goldenface is buttercup yellow thats one thing i do know the rest welll im reading the book i got trying to update lol will get some picture soon as i can of my golden faces my one and only type 1 yellow face my type to mutants and see what you call them compared to me will be funn as everyones judgment verys this subject sucks but i love it ...

got to go now bro getting mad lol see you all next chance i will have pics nite all :rofl: and please dont think i know more than you as i dont :tut_tut: :flowers:

okay so i have re-read pete's article and i will try and visually explain his thinking.

 

Photo's courtesy of LittleGreenDarcyAviary. All quotes are of pete burgmans article.

 

• Mutant 1 Blues have two b¹ alleles so can only make (b¹) enzyme; therefore no yellow.
  
• Mutant 2 Blues have two b² alleles so can only make (b²) enzyme; therefore no yellow.
  
• Mutant 1 Yellowfaces have one b¹ allele and one b² allele; and so can make both types of defective enzyme.
  

 

Therefore b¹ allele and one b² allele is the typical yellowface mutant 1:

 

 

Once more:

• Pure Greens BB produce (B/B) enzyme.
  
• Mutant 1 Blues b¹b¹ produce (b¹/b¹) enzyme.
  
• Mutant 2 Blues b²b² produce (b²/b²) enzyme.
  
• 'Mutant 1' Yellowfaces b¹b² produce both (b¹/b¹) enzyme and (b²/b²) enzyme.
  

he 'Mutant 1' Yellowface is really only a by-product of the interaction of two different kinds of Blue. There is no 'Mutant 1' Yellowface allele or more precisely it was incorrectly named in the first place. Neither of the two blue alleles is dominant or recessive to the other. They stand at the bottom of the allelic dominance hierarchy on an equal footing B › b^g › b^y2 › b¹, b². This type of inheritance pattern has sometimes been called 'allelic complementation'

 

Then there is the double factor golden face b^gb^g which produces pigment beyond the mask area alone, typically concentratedd in the chest area. (Look under the beard, the chest is green):

or here:

 

There are also two types of single factor goldenfaces - b^gb¹ where the colour runs down the body:

 

- and b^gb².where the colour is restricted to the head, and a few other areas such as tail or flight feathers:

 

 

The only real difference between the Mutant 2 and the Goldenface is that the Mutant 2 enzyme is less efficient at producing yellow pigment than the Goldenface enzyme.

 

Yellowface mutant 2 is b^y2 and appears as seafoam green when carried as b^y2b¹:

 

Double factor yellowface b^y2b^y2 produces a somewhat brighter yellow, which spreads down to the chest, but not over the whole body as with b^y2b¹. Everything composite you can get with a b^g (goldenface), you can get with a yellowface mutant two (b^y2) - the only difference as mentioned before is that the yellow is less vibrant.

 

Composites between Mutant 2 Yellowface and Goldenface do exist and likewise produce three versions of the enzyme namely (b^g/b^g) enzyme, (b^y2/b^y2) enzyme, and (b^g/b^y2) hybrid enzyme. All three versions of the enzyme are active but the hybrid enzyme is not overactive. These birds closely resemble the double factor Goldenface.

 

All types of yellow faces express variance. ie some will be brighter than others of the same type, others paler. Some will have lots of spillage, others little to none. This is the case with any mutation - in that it expresses itself slightly differently with almost every bird.

 

I hope this provides some understanding, and perhaps even further discussion Feel free to disagree or correct me if you believe i misunderstood or you feel otherwise

Edited January 18, 200916 yr by Dean_NZ

okay now I am totally confused... I hope someone is getting sense out of this thread... It seems as though every expert has a different opinion... (I'm not talking about forum members I am talking about the writers of the articles/books)

 

I would've said that the bird above posted by dean is a YF1 because it is creamy in colour... but the expert is saying YF2 right?

 

And RIP, even though no YF2 birds came back from the UK couldn't the mutation emerge here of its own free will?

 

I'll look out for that book RIP any book on Budgerigars is an enjoyable read

Yeah I'm kind of confused now too. What would your different opinions be on the mutations of these birds?

(this one is only 4-5 months old)

 

(and this budgie is 2 1/2 years old)

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee330/J...04/CAYR6D2T.jpg

 

(this budgie is the same age, a bit older, than the one above)

Edited January 19, 200916 yr by Neat
Image turned to link over size

http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index.php?showtopic=9447

 

Here is an article from Jim Sutton there is a bit in there about YF also members have added some photo's of there "type 1 & 2 & GF"

 

this includes Daz & Kaz so saying that there is no such thing as a YF 2 seems strange whether we are in Aust or Africa it is something that we here have all "termed" and can identify with so now to call it something " correct" seems strange in more ways then one

 

HERE IS THE ARTICLE that i think RIP is referring to

Edited January 19, 200916 yr by Neat
added link