Well, I am thinking this remodelling has worked. Caesar has come home form the vets and it on antibiotics morning and nights. He seems better

 

Was there a definitive diagnosis?

No - all test came back clear, so i am thinking that if it is not viral or infection, than it is simply environment based, thus the chill factor

No - all test came back clear, so i am thinking that if it is not viral or infection, than it is simply environment based, thus the chill factor

 

Interesting. In that case why weren't more affected?

Have they been recently wormed?? I have noticed that i get one or two come down a little sick, a few days after worming, then they are fine...

I hope he gets better fast

maybe they were, but they hid it better. I think I have notied a general well being of all the birds in the last few days.

 

Some birds suffer more than others. Think of it this way, do you know people who feel the heat more than others? What about people who on a freezing cold day still wear shorts? Why don't docot's catch every cold they are exposed ot? What about people who get the same chill as you, but they catcha cold and you don't/ Why can it not be the same for birds? When we are cold, our bodies react. We can put more clothes on and the like.

Dumb and dumber are Beautifull!!!! Does anyone know anyone in Perth that would sell birds like these??

Dumb and dumber are Beautifull!!!! Does anyone know anyone in Perth that would sell birds like these??

Cammo...these birds came from Perth...So YES you can buy birds like these in Perth. Join the budgie club of your choice and let it be known you are looking to buy. Most breeders here are "culling" in March so soon you will have birds you can buy very much like these.

Dave, sorry to hear about your losses but it looks like the younger birds are turning out real nice which may help compensate some what.

 

As for the doxy treament I myself would not dose a bird on broad spectrum anti biotic as a quarantine measure. Aniti biotics do not discriminate between good and bad bugs. The birds are already stressed through removal from their environment and then plane travel, change in heat and humidty levels from state to state, change of water, food and routine. All these things take a toll on the system and by dosing with anti biotics you weaken the birds system by killing off benefical bacteria. It can be offset to a small degree by feeding acidopholous bacteria but dependant on methods of delivery the amount consumed it just may not be enough. There is also other gut flora which just cannot be given. It must be remembered that all livings things are in themselves a habitat. There are tiny little ecosystems in the gut, intestines etc each are unique and thrive when in balance, but should that balance be upset it is then that we see problems.

 

Like you say people are different with colds etc just as they are at combatting disease. I think we over-medication ourselves and our animals. This is why some bugs are now getting the upper hand and in some cases we do not have the defences.

Dave, sorry to hear about your losses but it looks like the younger birds are turning out real nice which may help compensate some what.

 

As for the doxy treament I myself would not dose a bird on broad spectrum anti biotic as a quarantine measure. Aniti biotics do not discriminate between good and bad bugs. The birds are already stressed through removal from their environment and then plane travel, change in heat and humidty levels from state to state, change of water, food and routine. All these things take a toll on the system and by dosing with anti biotics you weaken the birds system by killing off benefical bacteria. It can be offset to a small degree by feeding acidopholous bacteria but dependant on methods of delivery the amount consumed it just may not be enough. There is also other gut flora which just cannot be given. It must be remembered that all livings things are in themselves a habitat. There are tiny little ecosystems in the gut, intestines etc each are unique and thrive when in balance, but should that balance be upset it is then that we see problems.

 

It seems I am saying the same thing again and again here, but what the ***, I will say it again.

 

I did not just make up a quarantine procedure. Before I went away, i consulted my avian vet for advice, and I have followed this advice. I suppose once everyone else on here has graduated as an avian vet, and they have over 30 years experience treating injured wildlife, especially birds, on a daily basis, I will follow their ideas and thoughts, but until that day comes, I think i will just trust my avian vet as he tends to be more knowledgeable than the anonymous writers on an internet based website.

 

I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but the "bush lawyer" avian vet comes a far second to my avian vet I am afraid.

 

Like you say people are different with colds etc just as they are at combatting disease. I think we over-medication ourselves and our animals. This is why some bugs are now getting the upper hand and in some cases we do not have the defences.

 

Naturally. You should all watch "Guns, Germs and Steel", a national geographic documentary on the spread of Europeans and their cultures. Fascinating in this regard.

Well, Caesar made it back home. He seems much better, eating well. His face is a bit dirty from the meds he is taking each morning and night, but he is revoering well and he should be back to full health soon.

 

 

 

 

So pleased he is feeling better

Edited February 26, 200916 yr by **Liv**

Gorgeous boy Looks like he has lost a little weight since I saw him last, but I love his head and mask

Dave, sorry to hear about your losses but it looks like the younger birds are turning out real nice which may help compensate some what.

 

As for the doxy treament I myself would not dose a bird on broad spectrum anti biotic as a quarantine measure. Aniti biotics do not discriminate between good and bad bugs. The birds are already stressed through removal from their environment and then plane travel, change in heat and humidty levels from state to state, change of water, food and routine. All these things take a toll on the system and by dosing with anti biotics you weaken the birds system by killing off benefical bacteria. It can be offset to a small degree by feeding acidopholous bacteria but dependant on methods of delivery the amount consumed it just may not be enough. There is also other gut flora which just cannot be given. It must be remembered that all livings things are in themselves a habitat. There are tiny little ecosystems in the gut, intestines etc each are unique and thrive when in balance, but should that balance be upset it is then that we see problems.

 

It seems I am saying the same thing again and again here, but what the ***, I will say it again.

 

I did not just make up a quarantine procedure. Before I went away, i consulted my avian vet for advice, and I have followed this advice. I suppose once everyone else on here has graduated as an avian vet, and they have over 30 years experience treating injured wildlife, especially birds, on a daily basis, I will follow their ideas and thoughts, but until that day comes, I think i will just trust my avian vet as he tends to be more knowledgeable than the anonymous writers on an internet based website.

 

I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but the "bush lawyer" avian vet comes a far second to my avian vet I am afraid.

 

Like you say people are different with colds etc just as they are at combatting disease. I think we over-medication ourselves and our animals. This is why some bugs are now getting the upper hand and in some cases we do not have the defences.

 

Naturally. You should all watch "Guns, Germs and Steel", a national geographic documentary on the spread of Europeans and their cultures. Fascinating in this regard.

 

 

Dave I own and have watched that documentary. It is extremely good. I too would recommend people watch it. I have also seen doco's on what overdosing of drugs is doing the people of this planet.

 

Regarding avian vets. No two vets think alike. Some will tell you to do exactly what you have done and others will tell you the opposite. I am well aware I am not a vet and was not purporting to be one. All I was giving was my point based on 20 years of breeding budgies and experience gained in agriculture. I only used anti biotics as a last resort.

 

I practice that even with myself. I suffer with the occasional bout of tonsilitis. Now these days they don't just whip them out. I was always prescribed anti biotics. I then watch a doco on Turberculous in the prison system in Russia, whereby they stopped prescribing it cause they were dealing a mutated strain which had become immune to anti biotics. They decided then to let the body's own defences come into play, didn't really have a choice did they. I decided I would do the same. Each bout of tonsilitis got reduced in length of time and intensity dropped off. I have not had a bout for so long now that I can't remember when the last one was.

 

Have you heard of Robert Stroud (bird man of alcatraz). Had an IQ of 134. He wasn't a vet but he sure knew a *** of a lot about birds. He know more about the inner workings of birds more then some vets I've met. Not every vet is a good vet but if ya get a good one stick to them. Tim Oldfield would be the best in the west for birds.

Edited February 26, 200916 yr by RIPbudgies

As for the doxy treament I myself would not dose a bird on broad spectrum anti biotic as a quarantine measure. Aniti biotics do not discriminate between good and bad bugs. The birds are already stressed through removal from their environment and then plane travel, change in heat and humidty levels from state to state, change of water, food and routine. All these things take a toll on the system and by dosing with anti biotics you weaken the birds system by killing off benefical bacteria. It can be offset to a small degree by feeding acidopholous bacteria but dependant on methods of delivery the amount consumed it just may not be enough. There is also other gut flora which just cannot be given. It must be remembered that all livings things are in themselves a habitat. There are tiny little ecosystems in the gut, intestines etc each are unique and thrive when in balance, but should that balance be upset it is then that we see problems.

 

It seems I am saying the same thing again and again here, but what the ***, I will say it again.

 

I did not just make up a quarantine procedure. Before I went away, i consulted my avian vet for advice, and I have followed this advice. I suppose once everyone else on here has graduated as an avian vet, and they have over 30 years experience treating injured wildlife, especially birds, on a daily basis, I will follow their ideas and thoughts, but until that day comes, I think i will just trust my avian vet as he tends to be more knowledgeable than the anonymous writers on an internet based website.

 

 

Regarding avian vets. No two vets think alike. Some will tell you to do exactly what you have done and others will tell you the opposite. I am well aware I am not a vet and was not purporting to be one. All I was giving was my point based on 20 years of breeding budgies and experience gained in agriculture. I only used anti biotics as a last resort.

 

Not every vet is a good vet but if ya get a good one stick to them. Tim Oldfield would be the best in the west for birds.

 

RIP the quarentine program that is pinned and that we advocate everyone follow is, I believe, based on Tim Oldfield's advice.

 

Last March I bought in some birds from another breeder who rarely medicates his birds and applies the 'tough love' approach. I popped an outstanding breeding hen into a nest box and chucked the rest into my large outside aviary. The hen carked it within the week and I lost an outstanding Dominant Pied cock to pooey bums the next week.

 

I refuse to loose anymore birds that way. I will be purchasing some top outcrosses in March and this time they're going into my quarentine cage and on doxy for a preventative measure.

 

Why do I advocate the doxy tratment ahead of the breeding season for all birds? Because I accept the wise advice of Gary Armstrong, one of our State's top breeders who has had his share of disasters and come through it all.

 

I would like to add that the advocated doxy program is 6 days doxy/1 day water AND I encourage it be followed up with at least a week of probiotics.

Edited February 26, 200916 yr by renee

This is such a debatable topic. I dont really have a strong view either way yet as i am still learning what works for me (she says as her birds are all on Ronivet-S at the moment )

Anyway There seems to be a real split down the middle when it comes to medicating the flock for preventative measures. Some breeders swear by the all natural (no medications) approach and others believe in the chemical cocktail they give.

 

I think its all about what works for you and what you are comfortable with, no one is right and no one is wrong.

thank you renee. that is what I did.

 

My avian vet is great, and i would follow his advice until the end.

 

He has lost a little weight Kaz, but when you hold him, you cannot feel his keel bone. He is getting stronger and fatter all the time. he looks thin, but he is not as thin as the photos make him look. Sometimes photos lie, as well know.

 

My own photos always make me look fat. I am really an adonis, the camera just adds 40 kilos -

This is such a debatable topic. I dont really have a strong view either way yet as i am still learning what works for me (she says as her birds are all on Ronivet-S at the moment ) Anyway There seems to be a real split down the middle when it comes to medicating the flock for preventative measures. Some breeders swear by the all natural (no medications) approach and others believe in the chemical cocktail they give. I think its all about what works for you and what you are comfortable with, no one is right and no one is wrong.

Except when your birds start dropping like flies..... and then Ooooops Too Late.

My own photos always make me look fat. I am really an adonis, the camera just adds 40 kilos -

That's funny- mine does the same thing ...... We must have the same make of camera!

Edited February 26, 200916 yr by renee

This is such a debatable topic. I dont really have a strong view either way yet as i am still learning what works for me (she says as her birds are all on Ronivet-S at the moment )

Anyway There seems to be a real split down the middle when it comes to medicating the flock for preventative measures. Some breeders swear by the all natural (no medications) approach and others believe in the chemical cocktail they give.

 

I think its all about what works for you and what you are comfortable with, no one is right and no one is wrong.

 

I agree with this 100%. It is your own personal preference how you want to quarantine your birds.

Preference yes, but that does not mean we all do what is best for our birds - but that is a debate for another thread.

 

Anyway, just an update. Of my 29 birds that came back from perth, one grey opaline cock died. I have to say that he was the least impressive of all my birds, but it is still upsetting.

 

That leaves me with 28. Of those 28, 26 are in the aviary now, and 2 are in the laundry under heat lamps. They have both been to the vet, they are Caesar, my Cec Gearing blue cock, and a the only hen I got from Hans Sibum, a Light Green Opaline Cinnamon wing. Now, at the vet Caesar was found to be free of any bacterial infection, so it is thought that he may have caught a cold. The hen is a different matter. Yet again she was free from bacterial infection, but she was throwing up, similar, but less extreme to the two greys that had previously demonstrated this behaviour before dying. Anyway, it was thought to be one of two things - either canker or metal poisoning. I do not know how she could be metal poisoned, as every cage she had been in was powder-coated, but they treated her for this anyway. She came home today, and although she is on meds for a week or so, she is much better.

 

The canker treatment continues, as this is what is thought was causing the problem with the birds that died, based on their symptoms.

 

I am looking forward to the day when they can all go into the aviary. The car is back in the garage, and the garage is getting tidy again. All is headed in the right direction. Now to get back to that breeding room.

Preference yes, but that does not mean we all do what is best for our birds - but that is a debate for another thread.

 

Anyway, just an update. Of my 29 birds that came back from perth, one grey opaline cock died. I have to say that he was the least impressive of all my birds, but it is still upsetting.

 

That leaves me with 28. Of those 28, 26 are in the aviary now, and 2 are in the laundry under heat lamps. They have both been to the vet, they are Caesar, my Cec Gearing blue cock, and a the only hen I got from Hans Sibum, a Light Green Opaline Cinnamon wing. Now, at the vet Caesar was found to be free of any bacterial infection, so it is thought that he may have caught a cold. The hen is a different matter. Yet again she was free from bacterial infection, but she was throwing up, similar, but less extreme to the two greys that had previously demonstrated this behaviour before dying. Anyway, it was thought to be one of two things - either canker or metal poisoning. I do not know how she could be metal poisoned, as every cage she had been in was powder-coated, but they treated her for this anyway. She came home today, and although she is on meds for a week Sr so, she is much better.

 

The canker treatment continues, as this is what is thought was causing the problem with the birds that died, based on their symptoms.

 

Aauugh! The dreaded Canker! Touch wood I haven't had that.

 

How do you think they got it?

I think those two greys from the pet shop had it. I think that it might be a problem in the aviary of the guy that bred those birds. I am no expert but I had a TCB that showed no signs for the first six months of his life, then he went downhill rapidly. That was what the grey cock did - no signs then bang, sick, bang, dead.

 

I think you always take a risk when you buy birds from a pet shop. I took the risk and it was almost fatal for some of my birds.

 

Canker treatment involves using Roni-Vet 4 times a year, for only 1 week. It is only 4mg in 4 litres of water, changed daily, so it is not a big thing. Simple to do.

 

Personally this is something that I will do 4 times a year. I do not like the idea of giving many meds to my birds, well, not generally, but canker treatment is a certainty for my birds.

I think those two greys from the pet shop had it. I think that it might be a problem in the aviary of the guy that bred those birds. I am no expert but I had a TCB that showed no signs for the first six months of his life, then he went downhill rapidly. That was what the grey cock did - no signs then bang, sick, bang, dead.

 

I think you always take a risk when you buy birds from a pet shop. I took the risk and it was almost fatal for some of my birds.

 

Canker treatment involves using Roni-Vet 4 times a year, for only 1 week. It is only 4mg in 4 litres of water, changed daily, so it is not a big thing. Simple to do.

 

Personally this is something that I will do 4 times a year. I do not like the idea of giving many meds to my birds, well, not generally, but canker treatment is a certainty for my birds.

I bought some Roni-Vet S the other week end. Have yet to use it but am ready to do so.

 

My birds are done for now. They are jumping out of their skins with vigor and vitality. For now new birds will be quarentined and treated for Mega, Worms and Lice and given a course of Doxy.

I hope you can clear up the suspected Canker. I had Canker come home with me in one of my hens. So many birds from so many places, they had to have something. she snuck though quarantine with it. I have been lucky not to have any loss from it. I now test for canker in quarantine as well as mega

 

I hope your two who are under the weather are feeling better soon

Edited March 9, 200916 yr by **Liv**

They are much better now than they were. Given a week, they will be ready for the aviary

It has been a long time since I wrote in this thread, and it is with sad new that I do again.

 

As you know if you read back through this thread, my trip to Perth saw me purchase a grand total of 30 birds. 29 came back with me, with one mauve bird not making it. Her symptoms were regurgitating food, runny poos and eventually she died in Perth before I left.

 

I returned home, and the birds were no meds, but about 14 days in, the grey cock bird from the same breeder as the mauve hen, died. Same symptoms.

 

I did not get an autopsy done. I should have, but I did not.

 

When i was preparing the birds for the aviary, Caesar did not look well, so I isolated him, nor did a hen from Hans - the cinnamon winged opaline green.

 

Caesar made a complete recovery and is in the avairy now.

 

I have been taking the hen to the vet each week, and she has shown little sign of improvement. Still underweight, still throwing up, no explanation for it. The way she was going she was never going to recover. I made the hard decision tonight, and told the vet to euthanase her. They will do that, then do an autopsy so I can have a better idea of what infected her, and the others. I need to know.

 

I could not risk her going into the aviary, and she has not been in good health for over 2 months. No signs of recovery. All that could have happened was she spread her illness to others, so to the birds who did not make it to Wattle Flights, you will be missed and I am sorry I could not do more.

Edited April 8, 200916 yr by KAZ