I am prepairing to get these eight pair into cabinets, but what I was wondering was if you can tell me the %'s of the off spring expected from each of these pair... also if anyone has suggestions of pairing differently (switching them up) in order to get better outcomes for "prettier" (rare or exotic looking) birds, PLEASE suggest so.

 

 

1. Pebble and BamBam. I'm told Pebbles is a Dominant Pied Grywing Sky Blue Hen and BamBam is a YF2 Dominant Pied Sky Blue Cock (don't know splits on this pair, first time breeding them)

 

 

2. Innocents and Angel. I'm told Innocents is an Albino Cock and Angel is a Single Factor Dominant Pied Sky Blue Hen. (don't know splits on these either and don't know dark factor of the Albino)

 

 

3. Fred and Wilma. I'm told Fred is a Normal Light Green Cock and Wilma is a Dilute Light Green Hen

 

4. Tinker and Patches. Through previous breeding I know Tinker is an Opaline Split Lutino Dark Green Cock and Patches is a Single Factor Dominant Pied Light Green Hen

 

 

5. Jake and Jasmine. I'm sold Jake is a Noraml Sky Blue Cock and Jasmine is a Normal Cobalt Blue Hen (don't know split on these either)

 

 

6. Tex and Sam. I'm told Tex is an Opaline Sky Blue Cock and Sam is a Normal Cobalt Hen. (don't know splits)

 

 

7. Raine and Pearl. Through breeding I've found that Raine is a GF2 Greywing Sky Blue Split Recessive and Albino Cock and Pearl is an Opaline Mauve Hen.

 

 

And last but not least and most excited to see the results of are:

 

8. Liz and Henry. I'm told that Liz is a Normal Cobalt Blue Violet Hen and Henry is an Opaline Spangle Sky Blue Violet Cock (don't know splits)

 

 

 

** Please note... unfortunately I did use a flash on all these pics so please keep that in mind. And any birds that "appear" to not have an iris ring do... all birds are 13 months or older right now. The yongest of the group is Sam and she just turned 12 1/2 months on January 2nd, unless I've been lied too... again.**

Edited January 8, 200916 yr by chrissy0705

Looking good Chrissy

Any birds that "appear" to not have an iris ring do... all birds are 13 months or older right now. The yongest of the group is Sam and she just turned 12 1/2 months on January 2nd, unless I've been lied too... again.**

I was about to say, a few of those birds do appear young and without iris rings. What colour iris rings and are you very sure of their ages ?

Edited January 9, 200916 yr by KAZ

This is the only pair I can guess

5. Jake and Jasmine. I'm sold Jake is a Noraml Sky Blue Cock and Jasmine is a Normal Cobalt Blue Hen (don't know split on these either)

50% skyblue

50% cobalt

 

6. Tex and Sam. I'm told Tex is an Opaline Sky Blue Cock and Sam is a Normal Cobalt Hen. (don't know splits)

50% skyblue

50% opaline

call cocks will be normal split opaline

all hens will be opaline

 

Anyone care to correct me?

1. Pebble and BamBam. I'm told Pebbles is a Dominant Pied Grywing Sky Blue Hen and BamBam is a YF2 Dominant Pied Sky Blue Cock (don't know splits on this pair, first time breeding them)

I think that BamBam is a YF2 sky blue clearflight pied. Your chicks would be all sky blue and half would be yellow face. There should be 25% clearflight pied, 25% dominant pied, 25% normal & 25% Clearflight pied dominant pied combination. The greywing is recessive so it will only appear in the chicks if the cock is split for greywing

2. Innocents and Angel. I'm told Innocents is an Albino Cock and Angel is a Single Factor Dominant Pied Sky Blue Hen. (don't know splits on these either and don't know dark factor of the Albino)

All the female chicks will be albino and half of them will be masking sf dominant pied.

 

The male chicks will be half blue sf dominant pieds and half blue normals. The shade of blue will depend on the dark factor of the albino. They will be split for ino

3. Fred and Wilma. I'm told Fred is a Normal Light Green Cock and Wilma is a Dilute Light Green Hen

100% light green normal. The dilute won't show unless Fred is split

4. Tinker and Patches. Through previous breeding I know Tinker is an Opaline Split Lutino Dark Green Cock and Patches is a Single Factor Dominant Pied Light Green Hen

Females: 12.5% light green opaline, 12.5% dark green opaline, 12.5% light green opaline dominat pied, 12.5% dark green opaline dominant pied & 50% lutino (The inos will all be masking opaline and half also be masking dominant pied)

 

(If they are split for blue sky blue, cobalt and albino are possible)

 

Males: 25% each of dark green dominant pied, light green dominant pied, dark green normal & light green normal

5. Jake and Jasmine. I'm sold Jake is a Noraml Sky Blue Cock and Jasmine is a Normal Cobalt Blue Hen (don't know split on these either)

50% sky blue & 50% cobalt

6. Tex and Sam. I'm told Tex is an Opaline Sky Blue Cock and Sam is a Normal Cobalt Hen. (don't know splits)

Females: 50% opaline cobalt & 50% opaline sky blue

 

Males: 50% cobalt normal & 50% sky blue normal (all split for opaline)

7. Raine and Pearl. Through breeding I've found that Raine is a GF2 Greywing Sky Blue Split Recessive and Albino Cock and Pearl is an Opaline Mauve Hen.

Females: 25% cobalt normal, 25% GF cobalt normal, 25% albino, 25% creamino

 

Males: 50% cobalt normal & 50% GF cobalt normal

 

The greywing, recessive pied and opaline will only show is the other bird is split for any of them

And last but not least and most excited to see the results of are:

 

8. Liz and Henry. I'm told that Liz is a Normal Cobalt Blue Violet Hen and Henry is an Opaline Spangle Sky Blue Violet Cock (don't know splits)

50% of all the chicks should be SF violet, 25% DF violet & 25% will have no violet

 

Females: 50% opaline, 50% opaline spangle

 

Males: 50% normal, 50% spangle (all split for opaline)

 

 

With all of these pairs expect surprises because without knowing what mutations are present in a split form accurate predictions are impossible

You have lovely birds and pairs

BUT.....

About 80% of these birds look well under 12 months to me.....

Edited January 9, 200916 yr by **Liv**

You have lovely birds and pairs

BUT.....

About 80% of these birds look well under 12 months to me.....

 

 

As I stated all pairs are over 12 months. The only pair I have doubt about is Sam and Tex. They both look younger to me. They have iris rings, but as KAZ asked, the iris is there, but they are more grey not crips white like my others. 4 of the pair I've personally owned since last December/January/February so I know they are a year or older. The show budgies pair I just got a month or so ago and I'm 99% sure they are both 2 years old or older. Fred and Wilma were a bonded pair that I got from a breeder. Pebbles and BamBam I don't know for sure, but they both have crisp clear iris. I can try to take good pics of the iris on all of them tomorrow or over the weekend if that will help assure everyone? Sam and Tex, I'm questioning at this point and may hold off on putting them down.

Chrissy, you are the owner of these birds. you know them better than anyone on this forum. You care for them daily. If you feel uncomfortable breeding birds younger than 12 months old then don't breed with the ones you are not sure about. If you are sure, then breed with them. As I've said before in other threads, I would wait 12 months before breeding with my birds, but you don't have to prove to us that your birds are 12 months old if you aready know thy are. Don't get me wrong I'd love more pics of the birds but don't just post them to make me happy knowing that your birds are over 12 months old

For JB....The worst thing about advising people on this forum sometimes is that some of us have a wealth of imformation to share to help people out. A lot of the time people dont want to take the advice, or make excuses to back up the actions they take. The old saying you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink. At times like those the ones who have experienced the pitfalls ....and they are trying to spare others from these pitfalls, end up frustrated as arguments unsue with the original topic poster also getting upset over the information they may not want to hear or use.

In this case Crissy, I am sure some of your birds are well under age. You've been given some opinions, based on good sound knowledge, and what you choose to do with it and how you read it is up to you.

BUT anyone who hasnt yet bred a bird cannot say with all good conscience that its okay to breed underage birds just because someone owns the underage bird. Ownership implies a duty of care to protect the birds we own........or do the birds own us ?

 

Edited January 9, 200916 yr by KAZ

For JB....The worst thing about advising people on this forum sometimes is that some of us have a wealth of imformation to share to help people out. A lot of the time people dont want to take the advice, or make excuses to back up the actions they take. The old saying you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.

 

I agree with what you are saying Kaz. Like I said, when I finally get around to breeding by myself I won't breed under 12 months. BUT, I don't have the right to tell someone what they can or cannot do with their pets. I can only advise them, (which you tend to do better) :fear

 

At times like those the ones who have experienced the pitfalls ....and they are trying to spare others from these pitfalls, end up frustrated :fear as arguments unsue with the original topic poster also getting upset over the information they may not want to hear or use.

 

It doesn't have to end in arguements. Infact it shouldn't. If someone doesn't accept the advice then there's no point in getting angry or frustrated. They simply have a different view point. I've seen champion breeders in the UK talk about things that I would never do. What's the point in me getting into a stoush over something that I have no power over? I listen to what they have, research it and come to my own conclusions. And even if I don't agree with them on that point next time I need help and they give me advice, I listen and research.

 

BUT anyone who hasnt yet bred a bird cannot say with all good conscience that its okay to breed underage birds just because someone owns the underage bird. Ownership implies a duty of care to protect the birds we own........or do the birds own us ?

 

I haven't seen anyone that hasn't yet bred a bird tell her it was okay? I agree owners must be responsible for the safety and well being of animals in their care, anyone that doesn't properly look after animals in their care should be properly penalised for it. I don't think we see enough of that.

 

 

I think I must be one of the idiots who won't stop talking

Edited January 9, 200916 yr by JimmyBanks

My advice to you is to not breed with (at least) these two pairs as they are visibly too immature at the moment. Even if they are over 12 months, the severe lack of iris rings suggests that their development has been delayed and they are still not mature enough to breed - they must be late bloomers. 12 months is just an average. Some budgies have to wait until 18 months)

 

Anyway, that's just my educated recommendation to you.

 

 

Edited January 9, 200916 yr by **Liv**

May I suggest a bit of switching around.

 

Raine to Pebble. Pebble is a Dilute, Raine is a Greywing. This paring will breed Greywings and some of which will be YF

 

Henry to Angel. Spangle Dom Pied Opaline hens will be bred. Nice combo.

 

Fred to Patches. All Light Greens and some will be Dom Pieds.

 

BamBam to Jasmine. Sky to Cobalt so both colours can be bred. Some will be YF and some Dom Pieds and some will be YF Dom Pieds.

 

Tinker to Liz. Two dark factor birds will produce an Olive and if Tinker is split blue some Mauves. With Violet factor there and the Opaline. Nice combo Oplaine Violet especially with a clear V.

 

Tex to Pearl. Both Opalines so 100% Opalines. Sky to Mauve 100% Cobalts, Yummy

 

Innocents to Sam. Breeding with the Cobalt will help indicate colour of Albino.

 

Jake to Wilma. This pair will produce 100% Light Greens all being split for Dilute. If Wilma is split for blue this pairing will point it out.

Edited January 9, 200916 yr by RIPbudgies

My advice to you is to not breed with (at least) these two pairs as they are visibly too immature at the moment. Even if they are over 12 months, the severe lack of iris rings suggests that their development has been delayed and they are still not mature enough to breed - they must be late bloomers. 12 months is just an average. Some budgies have to wait until 18 months)

 

Anyway, that's just my educated recommendation to you.

 

 

 

Thank you Liv. The first picture you say not to breed... the Albino was bought as a gift for me on December 23, 2007. So the Albino is definately over a year old. Probably born in November of 2007, he has an 07 leg band on his leg. The Sky Dom Pied in the picture with him I personally bought from Petco (along with another hen) on February 15, 2008, which means she was most likely born in January 2008, making her a year old this month, she has an 08 leg band on her leg. So she would also be a year old now. The second picture, is the pair I'm questioning as to their ages. I got them over the summer and was told they were 4-6 months old at the time. They don't have leg bands and I do agree with all who are concerned on this pair and will NOT be breeding this pair yet.

 

JB, RIP, budgie88, Liv, and Neville (hope I didn't miss anyone else) thank you all for your advice and help answering the actual questions I asked.

 

KAZ, I will ask that you not reply to any of my posts anymore. I'm tired of being "attacked" and "insulted" by you. Every post I have on here there is a comment from you that may have something positive in it, but always followed by something negative. I do the best I can in the best interest of all my birds. I come to this site for help and advice not to be told YOU KNOW what I have. As JB said I shouldn't have to post "proof" but I will be taking more pics and if I have to I will post my purchase receipts to show you when the birds where bought to "prove" their ages. So if it's something personal, then leave it that way, and stop slamming me every chance you get.

Chrissy,

 

I do not think that Kaz is personally attacking you. I am sure that if you felt that way, Kaz would be most upset that you have taken it to heart.

 

Kaz is simply making the point that some of your birds look very young, far too young to breed. Liv makes a very good point in regard to developmental stages of birds versus ages. I am sure that we all know young people who can physically have children, they may be 18, but they have not physically grown to an age where their bodies are ready to produce offspring. Just because they are chronologically old enough does not mean that they should have kids straight away. All pairs do not have to start breeding at the same time - stagger the start - give the young ones another 3 months and then see how they go. Think if it like this, the runt of a litter is loften ready to breed later than the older chick as the older chick got all the nourishment in the nestbox, they were louder and able to get mum and dad's attention. So whilst we consider all chicks in the nestbox the same age (days apart), the developmental growth betweent he youngest and the oldest is often quite different. The younger one will catch up, it just needs more time.

 

As for the birds looking young, pet types have a greater tendency to look young to me than show birds. Mainly because they are smaller and thinner, I am always waiting for them to "fill out".

 

Everyone on here just wants what is best for you and your birds. No one is personally attacking you. Kaz used metaphors in her reply. She could have said "you asked for people's advice and then when you were told something different to what you wanted to hear, you sought to justify and tell experienced breeders they are wrong". Perhaps she should have said that. I know Kaz and I know that she is not setting out to insult you. She is just wanting what is best for your birds and what is best for you. I know Ilove my birds, and I am very sure you love your birds very much. The thought of losing a young one due to complications with laying an egg, due to the fact she was a little underdeveloped (not too young chronologically, just not physically ready) would be devastating.

 

Please, do not get upset at what people write here. Ultimately, everyone is trying to help you out. Sometimes people will have different opinions. I know I disagree with more experienced breeders at times, but no matter the advice we are offered, we are going to do what we think is right. You do what you think is right, but do consider the advice of others.

May I suggest a bit of switching around.

 

Raine to Pebble. Pebble is a Dilute, Raine is a Greywing. This paring will breed Greywings and some of which will be YF

 

Henry to Angel. Spangle Dom Pied Opaline hens will be bred. Nice combo.

 

Fred to Patches. All Light Greens and some will be Dom Pieds.

 

BamBam to Jasmine. Sky to Cobalt so both colours can be bred. Some will be YF and some Dom Pieds and some will be YF Dom Pieds.

 

Tinker to Liz. Two dark factor birds will produce an Olive and if Tinker is split blue some Mauves. With Violet factor there and the Opaline. Nice combo Oplaine Violet especially with a clear V.

 

Tex to Pearl. Both Opalines so 100% Opalines. Sky to Mauve 100% Cobalts, Yummy

 

Innocents to Sam. Breeding with the Cobalt will help indicate colour of Albino.

 

Jake to Wilma. This pair will produce 100% Light Greens all being split for Dilute. If Wilma is split for blue this pairing will point it out.

 

 

RIP, thank you for the suggestions on re-pairing. I do have a question though. Most the pairs are pet style budgies and Henry and Liz are show budgies... you suggested pairing both of them with other birds, but can or should I do that? Can or should you breed a show budgies with a pet style budgie??? Just asking cause I've never seen or hear it before. Let me know. Thanks so much.

You can breed show budgies with pet budgies. they are the smae bird, jsut selective breeding has resulted in different sizes. It would be like suggesting you breed a bigger dog with a smaller dog. They are both dogs.

 

You are breeding pets, not show budgies, so size is not as important as having nice young chicks in terms of colour. I would take RIP's advice and change some of the pairings around. the show budgie/pet budgies combo should produce offspring that fall somewhere inbetween the two in regards to size.

Chrissy,I do not think that Kaz is personally attacking you. I am sure that if you felt that way, Kaz would be most upset that you have taken it to heart. Kaz is simply making the point that some of your birds look very young, far too young to breed. Liv makes a very good point in regard to developmental stages of birds versus ages. I am sure that we all know young people who can physically have children, they may be 18, but they have not physically grown to an age where their bodies are ready to produce offspring. Just because they are chronologically old enough does not mean that they should have kids straight away. All pairs do not have to start breeding at the same time - stagger the start - give the young ones another 3 months and then see how they go. Think if it like this, the runt of a litter is loften ready to breed later than the older chick as the older chick got all the nourishment in the nestbox, they were louder and able to get mum and dad's attention. So whilst we consider all chicks in the nestbox the same age (days apart), the developmental growth betweent he youngest and the oldest is often quite different. The younger one will catch up, it just needs more time.As for the birds looking young, pet types have a greater tendency to look young to me than show birds. Mainly because they are smaller and thinner, I am always waiting for them to "fill out". Everyone on here just wants what is best for you and your birds. No one is personally attacking you. Kaz used metaphors in her reply. She could have said "you asked for people's advice and then when you were told something different to what you wanted to hear, you sought to justify and tell experienced breeders they are wrong". Perhaps she should have said that. I know Kaz and I know that she is not setting out to insult you. She is just wanting what is best for your birds and what is best for you. I know Ilove my birds, and I am very sure you love your birds very much. The thought of losing a young one due to complications with laying an egg, due to the fact she was a little underdeveloped (not too young chronologically, just not physically ready) would be devastating.Please, do not get upset at what people write here. Ultimately, everyone is trying to help you out. Sometimes people will have different opinions. I know I disagree with more experienced breeders at times, but no matter the advice we are offered, we are going to do what we think is right. You do what you think is right, but do consider the advice of others.

Dave, Thank you for the reply and I appreciate the manner in which you have stated things. Taking a moment to choice your words makes all the difference on how someone takes things. I'm not going to beat this issue to death. My only point was that I know my birds, I know when I bought them and I know that 12 months is rule of thumb and it is frowned upon to breed any younger. I agree and understand what you are saying about "developementally ready to breed" rather than "age ready to breed". Honestly, I did not take that into consideration because I was just trying to make sure the 12 month rule was followed. If that is what KAZ was trying to say I think it could and should have been said in a manner that didn't require "insulting cartoons" to tell me off. I too do what's best for my birds and so far Liv has pointed out 2 pair that she feels "look" too young. I will reconsider those pairs based her opinion. You both very tactfully said what needed to be said and I can't help but wonder why she couldn't do the same. Instead of her saying the birds are too young, she could have pointed out what ones and why she thought so and I could understand them "looking" too young vs. "fighting to defend" that I'm not breeding underage birds. I respect everyone opinions on here, experts, beginners, etc... including KAZ, but I think it's more encouraging to those "less experienced" to be talked to like a human being instead of a piece of ****... and I feel the "cartoons" were just over the top and wrong of KAZ. Maybe I should just leave the site. I'm obviously too sensitve. I'm a naturally calm and compassionate person and I don't like being made to feel like this, all over asking a question. It's not worth the upset.

You can breed show budgies with pet budgies. they are the smae bird, jsut selective breeding has resulted in different sizes. It would be like suggesting you breed a bigger dog with a smaller dog. They are both dogs.You are breeding pets, not show budgies, so size is not as important as having nice young chicks in terms of colour. I would take RIP's advice and change some of the pairings around. the show budgie/pet budgies combo should produce offspring that fall somewhere inbetween the two in regards to size.

Thanks Dave, I had no idea that could be done. I thought that maybe if the hen was small (pet style) that breeding with a larger bird (show style) the eggs would be too large to pass or something or if the cock was the pet style that he may have trouble mounting the hen since she was be so much larger. So thanks for the info. I'm gonna look over the change ups and see about re-pairing... I'd like to get a large variety of colors and mutations and knowing what to pair with what will help me get that. So thank you. and thank you again RIP for the suggestions.

The cartoons for were Jimmy Banks and his sense of humour and not for telling you off.

Edited January 9, 200916 yr by KAZ

Chrissy there is no point in leaving the site. We'd all miss looking at your birds. For someone in the middle of winter in the US you certainly do a good job of keeping your birds happy. I hope you choose to hang around.

 

Back to the original topic of this thread, RIP did a good job of showing you other combinations that you might want to think about, whether you decide to swap them around or not I am sure you will have lovely looking chicks. And I look forward to seeing what results you get. If you do swap the pairs around make sure you post the pictures of the new pairs

Edited January 9, 200916 yr by JimmyBanks

Chrissy, We don't want you to leave.

 

I know Kaz personally. She is a lovely gentle soul ( who will get all embarrassed reading this hehe) and has a brilliant scene of humour and wouldn't hurt a hair on a fly's back. There is no way she was doing anything other than trying to help you and your birds out like the rest of us. None of us want to see anything bad happen.

 

Don't feel we are attacking you. That's not what we do. When we see something, its our duty to warn of possible problems. We cant make you do anything, we are just trying to let you know that there may be issues with the younger (immature) birds as they don't seem developed enough to breed.

 

If we didn't say anything and you came back in 5 weeks time posting about all the troubles you would potentially be having, i would not be able to sleep at night knowing that i saw and issue and didn't warn you about it before it could be prevented.

 

I hope that all makes sense.....

As I stated in a previous comment I was going to post pics of the iris rings of the pairs I WAS HOPING to breed. I see everyone's point on the "developement of the iris ring" and not just the fact they have one. Can you (nicely) point out what birds seem "ready" and what ones don't and tell me why. In the future besides making sure they are 12 months old and have an iris ring, are there other signs I should look for to tell if they are ready? All my males, even Tex (although he looks young) are very attentive to the hens, feeding and preening, they explore the nest boxes first, bob thier heads, etc... All the hens pace frantically and follow the cocks all over the place, preen themselves, constantly chew the cuttle and mineral blocks, and are in and out of the nesting boxes, not to mention all the hens have been in and out of condition 2 times or more since I got them (all with very crusty brown or tan cere's)... are these not all signs they are "ready"? These are all the signs I've been watching for to make the choice to breed them all in the first place. Or is everyone saying the iris ring tells it all and that should be my marker to go by? So here goes... ????

 

1.

 

Hen, no leg band, bought April 08.

 

 

Cock, no leg band, rescued June 08 owner had for 1 year before me.

 

 

2.

 

Hen, 08 leg band, bought Feb 08.

 

 

Cock, 00 leg band, bought Dec 07.

 

 

3.

 

Hen, no leg band, bought from breeder Nov 08, proven pair had for 1 1/2 years before me

 

 

Cock, no leg band, same info given as hen above

 

 

 

4.

 

Hen, no leg band, also a rescue in Nov 08, at rescue for 6 months, previous owner told rescue they had this hen and cock for about 8 months.

 

 

Cock, no leg band, same info as hen above.

 

 

5.

 

Hen, 07 leg band, rescued in June 08, owner had for 1 year before me.

 

 

Cock, no leg band, rescued in Nov 08, didn't know the his history exept he was at the rescue for 4 months.

 

 

6.

 

Hen, 08 leg band, bought in Feb 08

 

 

Cock, 07 leg band, given as a gift in Dec 07

 

 

7.

 

Hen, no leg band, rescued in Nov 08, no history besides at the rescue for 3 months

 

 

Cock, no leg band, sam info as hen above

 

 

8. This is the pair I was questioning... and won't be breeding this time around.

 

Hen

 

 

Cock

 

 

** Please note all picture were taken with a flash in order to get the close up shots without blur**

Edited January 11, 200916 yr by KAZ

I am sorry if you misinterpreted what I wrote. Thankyou for the PM and I accept the apology you offered. :budgiedance:

I am sorry if you misinterpreted what I wrote. Thankyou for the PM and I accept the apology you offered. :budgiedance:

 

Thnak you KAZ.

 

That being said... can you guys point out what you were saying about the "developement stages" on these pics? Show me which birds you feel are still too young to breed?

In my view the following birds are either too young or to immature with their development to breed safely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In my view the following birds are either too young or to immature with their development to breed safely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with Liv in regards to these birds. I think you might be best to leave these three. I think you can breed them this year, just give them another 6 months or so (minimum)