Posted December 26, 200816 yr Here are the chicks as of today... the olderst being just shy of one month old and the youngest being about 2 weeks old. I have 3 that people want already as soon as they are ready to go and I'd like to be able to tell them color, mutation and sex if possible. I think we got most of them down so the ones that we know for sure, I'm just posting to show how well they are doing... the rest I need help with... so here goes... PLEASE CONFIRM COLOR, SEX, MUTATIONS (and MASKING/SPLITS)... These are the chicks from the Opaline Mauve Hen and the Sky blue GF2 Greywing Split Receissive and Ino Cock First is a Normal Cobalt, I need to know what sex? Second and Thrid are both GF2 Cobalts but I need to know their sexes inorder to find out thier splits?? The last one I thought to be and Albino hen, but I'm told the yellow bleeding through makes her a Creamino?? It this Creamino and is it a hen? The rest of the bubs are from the Opaline Dark Green Cock and the Single Factore Dominant Pied Light Green Hen First and Second chicks are Single Factor Dominant Pied Cocks, but I need to know if they are light or dark green?? I'm told it they are cocks because anything other than Opalines would be?? Third and Fourth are Opaline Hen, but I need to know are they dark or light green?? I'm told they are hens because the father is Opaline and all Opaline chicks would be hens. Fifth is a Normal Dark Green chick, but I need to know if they it's male or female?? The sixth chick I still don't know what it is... I think Opaline, and if so a hen? Still too soon to tell color? The seventh chick I thought was a Lutino Hen, but she seems to have some white feathers on her tail and wings?? I don't know if that makes her Lutino Clearwing or if she is a Creamino also, not sure?? I don't mean to kill this topic with the same thing but now that I have people requesting to buy them I'd like to offer them as much factual information about them as possible. Thanks so much...
December 26, 200816 yr Here are the chicks as of today... the olderst being just shy of one month old and the youngest being about 2 weeks old. I have 3 that people want already as soon as they are ready to go and I'd like to be able to tell them color, mutation and sex if possible. I think we got most of them down so the ones that we know for sure, I'm just posting to show how well they are doing... the rest I need help with... so here goes... PLEASE CONFIRM COLOR, SEX, MUTATIONS (and MASKING/SPLITS)... These are the chicks from the Opaline Mauve Hen and the Sky blue GF2 Greywing Split Receissive and Ino Cock First is a Normal Cobalt, I need to know what sex? NEED TO SEE THE FACE. Second and Thrid are both GF2 Cobalts but I need to know their sexes inorder to find out thier splits?? (1ST LOOKS MALE, 2ND NEED TO SEE THE FACE) The last one I thought to be and Albino hen, but I'm told the yellow bleeding through makes her a Creamino?? It this Creamino and is it a hen? ( CREAMINO HEN ) The rest of the bubs are from the Opaline Dark Green Cock / INO and the Single Factore Dominant Pied Light Green Hen First and Second chicks are Single Factor Dominant Pied Cocks, but I need to know if they are light or dark green?? I'm told it they are cocks because anything other than Opalines would be?? (DOMINANT PIED COCK SPLIT OPALINE) Third and Fourth are Opaline Hen, but I need to know are they dark or light green?? I'm told they are hens because the father is Opaline and all Opaline chicks would be hens. Fifth is a Normal Dark Green chick, but I need to know if they it's male or female?? (COCK) The sixth chick I still don't know what it is... I think Opaline, and if so a hen? Still too soon to tell color? (TOO YOUNG FOR ME. LOOKS LIKE A COCK AT THIS STAGE) The seventh chick I thought was a Lutino Hen, but she seems to have some white feathers on her tail and wings?? I don't know if that makes her Lutino Clearwing or if she is a Creamino also, not sure?? (LUTINO HEN. THE COCK IS SPLT INO) I don't mean to kill this topic with the same thing but now that I have people requesting to buy them I'd like to offer them as much factual information about them as possible. Thanks so much... Hope that helps.. Colouring is difficult for me on the internet. Dark greens and Grey greens can look simalr. Edited December 26, 200816 yr by Daz
December 27, 200816 yr Here are the chicks as of today... the olderst being just shy of one month old and the youngest being about 2 weeks old. I have 3 that people want already as soon as they are ready to go and I'd like to be able to tell them color, mutation and sex if possible. I think we got most of them down so the ones that we know for sure, I'm just posting to show how well they are doing... the rest I need help with... so here goes... PLEASE CONFIRM COLOR, SEX, MUTATIONS (and MASKING/SPLITS)... These are the chicks from the Opaline Mauve Hen and the Sky blue GF2 Greywing Split Receissive and Ino Cock First is a Normal Cobalt, I need to know what sex? Normal Cobalt split Greywing or Clearwing. Need to see face. Second and Thrid are both GF2 Cobalts but I need to know their sexes inorder to find out thier splits?? Goldenface(sf) Cobalts split Greywing or Clearwing The last one I thought to be and Albino hen, but I'm told the yellow bleeding through makes her a Creamino?? It this Creamino and is it a hen? Goldenface(sf) Albino Cobalt split Greywing or Clearwing hen. Creamino is a term used for the combination of Yellowface on an Albino! The rest of the bubs are from the Opaline Dark Green Cock and the Single Factore Dominant Pied Light Green Hen First and Second chicks are Single Factor Dominant Pied Cocks, but I need to know if they are light or dark green?? I'm told it they are cocks because anything other than Opalines would be?? Top one looks Light Green. Can't see enough to give you colour of the next one. Both are cocks! Both are split to Oplaine and possibly split to Ino. Third and Fourth are Opaline Hen, but I need to know are they dark or light green?? I'm told they are hens because the father is Opaline and all Opaline chicks would be hens. Top one is Dark Green the bottom one is Light Green. Fifth is a Normal Dark Green chick, but I need to know if they it's male or female?? It is a cock. The sixth chick I still don't know what it is... I think Opaline, and if so a hen? Still too soon to tell color? If the down is white it is Opaline and if so it will be a hen. The seventh chick I thought was a Lutino Hen, but she seems to have some white feathers on her tail and wings?? I don't know if that makes her Lutino Clearwing or if she is a Creamino also, not sure?? Opaline Lutino (maybe Dom Pied) Lt or Dk Green hen. There is no Yellowface so can't be Creamino and the flights and tail of Inos are white as their is little to no Yellow pigments in these areas to show yellow when the melanin is removed. I don't mean to kill this topic with the same thing but now that I have people requesting to buy them I'd like to offer them as much factual information about them as possible. Thanks so much...
December 27, 200816 yr Goldenface(sf) Albino Cobalt split Greywing or Clearwing hen. Creamino is a term used for the combination of Yellowface on an Albino! How can it be split if it is a hen?? Wouldn't it be masking those gene's??
December 27, 200816 yr Goldenface(sf) Albino Cobalt split Greywing or Clearwing hen. Creamino is a term used for the combination of Yellowface on an Albino! How can it be split if it is a hen?? Wouldn't it be masking those gene's?? Greywing and Clearwing genes are recessive and as such can be carried in split form by both sexes.
December 27, 200816 yr The golden rule is no Hen can be split for a SEX LINKED Gene.. All birds can be split for a recessive gene.
December 28, 200816 yr Author Here is a face shot of the Normal Cobalt.. Hen or cock? Thanks so much on the above posts... I have questions so I'll break them down there. Here is the best face shot I could get for the smaller GF... the bugger kept wiggling around... and the other one already has a face shot so can you tell what sex they both are now?? So the questions I have are: 1. The GF (sf) Albino can I call it a Creamino or is that not correct to say? Am I understanding that a GF (sf) Albino IS the same thing as a Creamino? 2. The GF (sf) Cobalts, will their bodies stay blue and thier head stay yellow or will thier bodies get a "green" color after thier first molt like a YF2 would ? 3. On the birds you are saying are split Clearwing or Greywing will you know which one once you know the sex of the bird or will we not know until they are bred and we see thier offspring? 4. On the dominant pied birds that you say are "possibly" split INO what will or won't make them split Ino?? I don't understand this part. 5. I don't understand the "Opaline Lutino Domiant Pied Light or Dark Green Hen"... Wouldn't she be "masking" opaline since she can't be split for it? And how does the dominant pied come into play... wouldn't that too be "masking"? I'm totally lost on this one. And as for the color, I won't know dark or light green until she is bred, correct? okay, I'm sorry to drag this out, but I'm really trying hard here and I hope you can be patient with me. Thanks so much to all for your imput. Edited December 28, 200816 yr by chrissy0705
December 28, 200816 yr 1. The GF (sf) Albino can I call it a Creamino or is that not correct to say? Am I understanding that a GF (sf) Albino IS the same thing as a Creamino? Personally I'd still call it a cremino but maybe there is some other convention here I'm not aware of... 2. The GF (sf) Cobalts, will their bodies stay blue and thier head stay yellow or will thier bodies get a "green" color after thier first molt like a YF2 would ? I would use the GF parent as a guide on this one 3. On the birds you are saying are split Clearwing or Greywing will you know which one once you know the sex of the bird or will we not know until they are bred and we see thier offspring? You won't know until they are bred as it isn't sex-linked 4. On the dominant pied birds that you say are "possibly" split INO what will or won't make them split Ino?? I don't understand this part. All cock chicks will be split 5. I don't understand the "Opaline Lutino Domiant Pied Light or Dark Green Hen"... Wouldn't she be "masking" opaline since she can't be split for it? And how does the dominant pied come into play... wouldn't that too be "masking"? I'm totally lost on this one. And as for the color, I won't know dark or light green until she is bred, correct? Yes he means masking those patterns
December 28, 200816 yr Quote Chrissy: 1. The GF (sf) Albino can I call it a Creamino or is that not correct to say? Am I understanding that a GF (sf) Albino IS the same thing as a Creamino? Quote Melbournebudgie: Personally I'd still call it a cremino but maybe there is some other convention here I'm not aware of... I prefer to call a budgie it correct classification and thereby help diseminate correct naming practices. It this case if the bird was to go to a breeder it is telling then the type of Yellowface involved. As the word "cream" is used to prefix the word "face" referring to the English Yellowface Mutant 1 a person may think it is that type. If the bird is to go for a pet then using the term Creamino would be fine. Creamino was infact rarely used in budgie terminology until the combo surfaced in parrots. Quote Chrissy: 2. The GF (sf) Cobalts, will their bodies stay blue and thier head stay yellow or will thier bodies get a "green" color after thier first molt like a YF2 would ? Quote Melbournbudgie: I would use the GF parent as a guide on this one The GF parent will not guide you as the product of the Sky X Mauve results in all cobalts. As a baby the bird will resemble a GF(df). Once the bird begins to moult and the feather structure changes from juvenile to adult the Yellow will become more intense in the body feathering. The bird will end up looking like a deep sea/green ocean. Similar to the one in the picture below. Quote Chrissy: 3. On the birds you are saying are split Clearwing or Greywing will you know which one once you know the sex of the bird or will we not know until they are bred and we see thier offspring? Quote Melbournebudgie: You won't know until they are bred as it isn't sex-linked Correct MB. If you want to know which one is split for what you would have to pair it to a visual Dilute as it is recessive to Greywing and Clearwing. Quote Chrissy: 4. On the dominant pied birds that you say are "possibly" split INO what will or won't make them split Ino?? I don't understand this part. Quote Melbournebudgie: All cock chicks will be split No not all cocks will be split for Ino. The father was split i.e. two genes = one Ino; one non Ino. When paired to a hen he can only pass on one of those genes. Each cock has a 25% chance of getting the Ino gene. Quote Chrissy: 5. I don't understand the "Opaline Lutino Domiant Pied Light or Dark Green Hen"... Wouldn't she be "masking" opaline since she can't be split for it? And how does the dominant pied come into play... wouldn't that too be "masking"? I'm totally lost on this one. And as for the color, I won't know dark or light green until she is bred, correct? Quote Melbournebudgie: Yes he means masking those patterns It is just the way in I name birds. Using the ANBC Matrix I name starting from the bottom. It also had to fit in with the program that I used to record pedigrees. This is how I would write it in the records Opaline Ino (Dom Pied) Light (Dark) Green. Here is the explanation for each part of the record. Opaline = is visual is highest up the matrix so therefore written first Ino = Ino is collective term and I can tell it is a Lutino becuase it is a green bird so no need to use the term Lutino (Dom Pied) = is placed in brackets and at this point because it is an unknown dominant mutation Light (Dark) Green = I assume the Green closest to the wildtype and place the unknown in brackets. Should the bird turn out to be a Dark Green I will simply remove the brackets and the word Light If the bird was split for any recessive mutations I would place a / after the word Green and then list the recessive traits. If the Recessive trait is possible but not proved it too would be placed inside brackets and placed at the end. Here is a face shot of the Normal Cobalt.. Hen or cock? This one looks like a cock Here is the best face shot I could get for the smaller GF... the bugger kept wiggling around... and the other one already has a face shot so can you tell what sex they both are now?? This one looks a little hen like Edited December 28, 200816 yr by RIPbudgies
December 28, 200816 yr Sorry RIP on reading your post I realised that the cock was split not visual for ino. In this case 50% of the male chicks would inherit the gene (ie. 25% chance over all) and you would not know which until bred as RIP said
December 28, 200816 yr Author Quote Chrissy: 1. The GF (sf) Albino can I call it a Creamino or is that not correct to say? Am I understanding that a GF (sf) Albino IS the same thing as a Creamino? Quote Melbournebudgie: Personally I'd still call it a cremino but maybe there is some other convention here I'm not aware of... I prefer to call a budgie it correct classification and thereby help diseminate correct naming practices. It this case if the bird was to go to a breeder it is telling then the type of Yellowface involved. As the word "cream" is used to prefix the word "face" referring to the English Yellowface Mutant 1 a person may think it is that type. If the bird is to go for a pet then using the term Creamino would be fine. Creamino was infact rarely used in budgie terminology until the combo surfaced in parrots. I totally understand. So it's just a matter of "correct terminology". The bird is a Creamino but in order to give all the detail possible you would say the full name including the GF (sf). Quote Chrissy: 2. The GF (sf) Cobalts, will their bodies stay blue and thier head stay yellow or will thier bodies get a "green" color after thier first molt like a YF2 would ? Quote Melbournbudgie: I would use the GF parent as a guide on this one The GF parent will not guide you as the product of the Sky X Mauve results in all cobalts. As a baby the bird will resemble a GF(df). Once the bird begins to moult and the feather structure changes from juvenile to adult the Yellow will become more intense in the body feathering. The bird will end up looking like a deep sea/green ocean. Similar to the one in the picture below. I understand this too. Thank you. So thier entire body color will take on a green shade after molt. Quote Chrissy: 3. On the birds you are saying are split Clearwing or Greywing will you know which one once you know the sex of the bird or will we not know until they are bred and we see thier offspring? Quote Melbournebudgie: You won't know until they are bred as it isn't sex-linked Correct MB. If you want to know which one is split for what you would have to pair it to a visual Dilute as it is recessive to Greywing and Clearwing. Gotya... breedin will tell all. Quote Chrissy: 4. On the dominant pied birds that you say are "possibly" split INO what will or won't make them split Ino?? I don't understand this part. Quote Melbournebudgie: All cock chicks will be split No not all cocks will be split for Ino. The father was split i.e. two genes = one Ino; one non Ino. When paired to a hen he can only pass on one of those genes. Each cock has a 25% chance of getting the Ino gene. I understand what you are saying here too, but is this also a thing that can only be told once you breed? Quote Chrissy: 5. I don't understand the "Opaline Lutino Domiant Pied Light or Dark Green Hen"... Wouldn't she be "masking" opaline since she can't be split for it? And how does the dominant pied come into play... wouldn't that too be "masking"? I'm totally lost on this one. And as for the color, I won't know dark or light green until she is bred, correct? Quote Melbournebudgie: Yes he means masking those patterns It is just the way in I name birds. Using the ANBC Matrix I name starting from the bottom. It also had to fit in with the program that I used to record pedigrees. This is how I would write it in the records Opaline Ino (Dom Pied) Light (Dark) Green. I understand... so where some would say "masking" you actually name it because looking at the bird you can tell its not visibly an "opaline" but if she wasn't Lutino she'd show it, same goes for the color light/dark. Light/Dark I won't tell till she is bred. But as for the dominant pied, since dad is opaline, if she had dominant pied in her that would make her a male?? So I'm confused on the dominant pied part. Lutino and Opaline would make her female since dad is Opaline so how does the dominant pied fall into play because anything other than the Lut and Opaline would make her a male from this clutch?? Or is it said because she has the chance of just carrying the gene? Here is the explanation for each part of the record. Opaline = is visual is highest up the matrix so therefore written first Ino = Ino is collective term and I can tell it is a Lutino becuase it is a green bird so no need to use the term Lutino (Dom Pied) = is placed in brackets and at this point because it is an unknown dominant mutation Light (Dark) Green = I assume the Green closest to the wildtype and place the unknown in brackets. Should the bird turn out to be a Dark Green I will simply remove the brackets and the word Light If the bird was split for any recessive mutations I would place a / after the word Green and then list the recessive traits. If the Recessive trait is possible but not proved it too would be placed inside brackets and placed at the end. So the "possible" mutations are those that are shown in one of the parents but not visible on the chick and can't be proven until breeding?? Here is a face shot of the Normal Cobalt.. Hen or cock? This one looks like a cock Here is the best face shot I could get for the smaller GF... the bugger kept wiggling around... and the other one already has a face shot so can you tell what sex they both are now?? This one looks a little hen like
December 28, 200816 yr The fact that she has a single ino gene means she MUST show this mutation and it will become dominant essentially over any non-sexlinked mutation, this is the reason that we know that all other chicks will be cocks. However she can still mask any non-sex linked mutation so she can still be split for it. And yes to your other question, you won't know which cocks are split ino until they are bred. If you were advertising you would only be able to say 'possibly' split ino
December 28, 200816 yr Dominant Pied is a Dominant mutation. It is either there or it is not. It cannot be held in split form. The mother of the Lutino is a Dominant Pied and so there is a 50% chance of her passing the Pied gene to the offspring. The Lutino chick has either inherited the Pied gene or she has not. Because the Lutino masks any other variety she may visually have you can only guess what is there. If this chick once grown up was paired to say a Normal Light Green then some Pied offspring resulted you would then know she is indeed a Dominant Pied.
December 29, 200816 yr Author Thank you MB and RIP for all the help. You two have been amazing!!! I couldn't ask for more. You not only helped, but took the time to explain... and did it wonderfully!! Thank you.
December 29, 200816 yr Chrissy, You are so welcome. Thank you for being a budgie lover and also for wanting to do the right thing by the people who will eventually get your babies. Your a champ. :anim_19:
December 29, 200816 yr Author Fifth is a Normal Dark Green chick, but I need to know if they it's male or female?? It is a cock. One more question on the normal dark green cock... is he split for opaline (possibly ino) like his brothers? And the three Opaline Green Hens are they possibly split or masking Dominant pied? They are opaline and they can't mask or split ino cause it's sex linked but waht about the dominant pied? Edited December 29, 200816 yr by chrissy0705
December 29, 200816 yr Fifth is a Normal Dark Green chick, but I need to know if they it's male or female?? It is a cock.One more question on the normal dark green cock... is he split for opaline (possibly ino) like his brothers?And the three Opaline Green Hens are they possibly split or masking Dominant pied? They are opaline and they can't mask or split ino cause it's sex linked but waht about the dominant pied?hi crissy that was very well done you two i even understood it lol nice babys congrads and i to think its wonderful you wanting to give as much corect infomation on bubys heritage fantastic i love it Fifth is a Normal Dark Green chick, but I need to know if they it's male or female?? It is a cock.One more question on the normal dark green cock... is he split for opaline (possibly ino) like his brothers?And the three Opaline Green Hens are they possibly split or masking Dominant pied? They are opaline and they can't mask or split ino cause it's sex linked but waht about the dominant pied?hi crissy that was very well done you two i even understood it lol nice babys congrads and i to think its wonderful you wanting to give as much corect infomation on bubys heritage fantastic i love itps chrissy sorry spelt your name wrong
December 29, 200816 yr Author Thanks for the complitments. I just feel that it's important to give all the info I can on the budgies. I can't tell you how many of my birds I have that I KNOW ABSOLUTLY NOTHING ABOUT, besides what's visible. Especially for those breeding who understand the genetics and want certain outcomes. If they know a chick is carrying the gene they need then they can pair for those results. I would only want the same doen for me. I cannot tell you how helpful this site is and the knowledge that everyone has... it's overwhelming at times to think a person can retain all this info. I hope to be one of them one day, but am sure it's in the far future!!! LOL
December 29, 200816 yr One more question on the normal dark green cock... is he split for opaline (possibly ino) like his brothers? And the three Opaline Green Hens are they possibly split or masking Dominant pied? They are opaline and they can't mask or split ino cause it's sex linked but waht about the dominant pied? He will be split for opaline possible ino like his brothers. When referring to hidden genes carried by ino birds it is referred to as masking not split. Dominant pied is dominant to normal so they are either visual or not carrying it at all they can't be split to it.
December 29, 200816 yr Author One more question on the normal dark green cock... is he split for opaline (possibly ino) like his brothers? And the three Opaline Green Hens are they possibly split or masking Dominant pied? They are opaline and they can't mask or split ino cause it's sex linked but waht about the dominant pied? He will be split for opaline possible ino like his brothers. When referring to hidden genes carried by ino birds it is referred to as masking not split. Dominant pied is dominant to normal so they are either visual or not carrying it at all they can't be split to it. Thanks MB, I think I understand all three comments you made... this stuff must be sinking in!! LOL Normal Split Opaline (possibly Lutino) Dark Green Cock... got that right? Lutino and Creamino chicks names would be stated "masking" not "split", right? And Opaline Light and Dark Green Hens are just that... nothing more, nothing "hidden" on them. No splits and no masking for any of the three Opaline Hen.... did I get that right??
December 29, 200816 yr YES!!!! The only way they could be split for something else is if one of the parents is split and passed it on in recessive form without the other parent passing it on to allow it to be visual. In this way a gene could be passed down 100 generations without just happening to meet the correct partner for it to be seen in a chick. There isn't much you can do about this and no way of telling though
December 29, 200816 yr Author YES!!!! The only way they could be split for something else is if one of the parents is split and passed it on in recessive form without the other parent passing it on to allow it to be visual. In this way a gene could be passed down 100 generations without just happening to meet the correct partner for it to be seen in a chick. There isn't much you can do about this and no way of telling though Thanks so much MB. Once again... you are a God send. One question on my "Creamino" chick then... I have it listed as a Goldenface (sf) Albino Split Greywing or Clearwing Cobalt Hen AKA Creamino.... but the comment above says they can't be "split" so do I say GF (sf) Albino masking Greywing or Clearwing Cobalt Hen??? Or is the greywing clearwing something she is actually split for and not masking?? Edited December 29, 200816 yr by chrissy0705
December 29, 200816 yr If she is masking it she carries it either as a dominant characteristic or she has two recessive genes(so it would be visual if she wasn't ino) for it but it can't be seen due to ino. If it is a recessive gene and she carries a single copy of it (in other wods it wouldbn't be visible even if she wasn't an ino) then she is split for it. Does that make sense? These are the parents yes? Opaline Mauve Hen and the Sky blue GF2 Greywing Split Receissive and Ino Cock So she is GF2 albino masking opaline and split greywing or clearwing, possibly split recessive Edited December 29, 200816 yr by melbournebudgies
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now