Hi all

 

At first I thought summer was a cinnamon dark green spangle, but now I think she may not be cinnamon at all??

 

I read that cinnamon dilutes the body colour 50% so it means summer coudnt be a light green. She either has to be a dark green or an olive cinnamon spangle?

Her cheek patches are silver/white and her throat spots are brown if that helps.

 

Heres some pics.

 

 

 

 

Her wings dont have much markings at all.

 

 

Her colour looks to dark to be diluted 50% from dark green, dont you think?

 

No flash was used.

 

Thankyou.

Edited January 4, 200916 yr by **Liv**

Looks like a cinnamon grey green spangle to me.

Looks like a cinnamon grey green spangle to me.

 

I agree Cinnamon Grey Green Spangle

I disagree with the grey green as cinnamon grey greens look different to that.

okay Thankyou Dave and Liv. If she is grey green cinnamon spangle is it possible to get dark green normal babies when paired to a green rec pied?

 

Chomper:

Green rec pied male

 

Summer:

Grey green cin spangle

 

Had these babies:

Normal dark green

Normal dark green

Spangle green

Opaline spangle green.

 

Is this possible? I got no grey greens from this paring. And which one of the parents would be split opaline?

What do you think she could be KAZ?

If she is grey green that means her body colour would be 50% diluted, it doesnt look 50% diluted to me, because she has brown spots does that mean she is definitly cinnamon?

Yes she is cinnamon

okay Thankyou very much.

If paired to a yellow reccesive pied, could their be cinnamon pairings? And which parent would be split opaline if the hens are opalines? Does that mean the mother is split opaline? Or father?

I just went through your old posts about this birds whilst Kaz and I discussed her. I am changing my vote. I think she is a YF type 2 cobalt blue cinnamon wing.

 

I had a bird that we could not determine the colour of

 

Tralia on the left. This pair produced 4 young - 2 blue spangles, 1 yf type 2 blue cinnamon wing spangle, and 1 yf type blue normal.

 

Looking back at the young Summer produced, i think many of them were actually YF type 2 birds

Edited December 24, 200816 yr by Dave_McMinn

I just went through your old posts about this birds whilst Kaz and I discussed her. I am changing my vote. I think she is a YF type 2 cobalt blue cinnamon wing.

 

I had a bird that we could not determine the colour of

 

Tralia on the left. This pair produced 4 young - 2 blue spangles, 1 yf type 2 blue cinnamon wing spangle, and 1 yf type blue normal.

 

Looking back at the young Summer produced, i think many of them were actually YF type 2 birds

 

I think she's not greygreen, but dark green - you can see a feint blue flush over the green in the body which you wouldn't see if it were greygreen. I also don't think she is cinnamon, just a feintly-marked spangle. Cinnamon doesn't so much dilute the body colour but mutes or softens it. Would have to see the real bird to be sure about the cinnamon but don't think so. If you hold the bird up so that light glances across the eye a cinnamon bird will show a tendency to the plum colour they have when they are chicks.

She looks more like a dark green cinnamon spangle than a grey green. (That's without looking at the evidence that Dave found in old posts)

Thankyou very much Dave for your post.

Here are summer and chompers babies, I originally did think they were yf because you can see blue in their chest feathers.

The 2 spangles did not look like yf's

 

But the normals did:

 

 

 

 

What do you guys think now?

 

Thankyou Jaznii and Neville.

Gosh! greens really confuse me

 

She certainly looks cinnamon to me

Edited December 24, 200816 yr by KAZ

I agree she is cinnamon too...

 

That last pics makes her look like a dark green cinnamon.

 

The YF babies could have come from dad being a DF YF

Edited December 24, 200816 yr by **Liv**

I agree she is cinnamon too...

 

That last pics makes her look like a dark green cinnamon.

 

The YF babies could have come from dad being a DF YF

 

Yes, the later pictures look more like cinnamon.

okay so offspring from her and chomper could be:

Spangle

Cinnamon

Yellowface

 

How can this pair produce opaline

okay so offspring from her and chomper could be:

Spangle

Cinnamon

Yellowface

 

How can this pair produce opaline

 

Cock bird would be opaline or split for opaline to produce opaline chicks (which will be hens). Hen cannot carry opaline in recessive form - hens either are or are not opaline. Ditto cinnamon and other sex-linked varieties.

Thankyou very much all for the help.

Hi all

 

Can someone please explain to me how double factor works...

 

The only way to get a double factor spangle is by breeding 2 spangles?

The only way to get a double factor grey green is by breeding 2 grey greens?

 

Is this how the double factor works

?

I think so... or you might get a percentage if you have a df already and pair it with a normal... not sure, but I would think that will get you a single factor only... someone who knows will be along shortly

Edited December 31, 200816 yr by JimmyBanks

okay Thanks jimmy.

okay Thanks jimmy.

 

Hi, Jaz here. When I was first learning about how this all worked, I used a diagram a bit like this:Example 1: dd x dd which are two birds with no factors = which give you chicks with no factors dd + dd + dd + dd no dark factors = skyblue or light green no grey factors = blue or green but not grey or greygreen no spangle factors = you can figure that out etcExample 2: dD x dD is a single factor bird x another single factor = dd + dD + dD + DD if these were spangle birds it would mean that out of every four chicks you should get 1 normal 2 spangles 1 df spangle You figure it out by cross-multiplying. Hope this is a start. If you want the other combinations let me know. It's rather hard trying to explain it by typing - I'd prefer to handwrite it on paper while talking about it but my technology is not up to that (yet!) If you use a square divided into four smaller squares it might be easier. Oh, sex-linked varieties are more complex, as are multiple factors. And remember, these are just probabilities - not laws set in stone. It is possible to get a nestful of chicks that don't fit the pattern. Hope that my formatting does not get jiggled when posting so that you can clearly see what I've set out. A check of the preview post did scramble things but I think it is still understandable.

okay Thanks jimmy.

Further to previous post: I used d and D which represent dark factorsYou may use any symbol you like. Such as ss = no spangle factors sS = single factor spangle and SS - double factor spangle. v and V for violet, g and G for grey etc

 

 

Admin people: Is there a way of preserving format when posting please? I'm afraid the way it has come out in the post would be a bit daunting to someone who had not seen this done before. Jaz

Edited January 4, 200916 yr by **Liv**

Thankyou very much Jaznji

 

I am going to study this as hard as I can.

 

Thanks very much again.

 

Edit:

 

I think I may understand it, please look at these examples and tell me if im right.

 

Skyblue paired to skyblue:

dd + dd = dd dd dd dd dd dd dd (Always be no dark factor?)

 

Dark green paired to dark green:

dD + dD = dd dD dD DD (what happens after the double factor? what if their are more than 4 chicks? does it repeat itself?)

 

Mauve to mauve:

Im assuming its: DD + DD = DD DD DD DD

 

Am I correct?

Edited December 31, 200816 yr by pearce

Right idea pearce.

 

You asked what if there are more than 4 chicks? You have to remember that this $ all theoretical. It is not like that birds turn around and go, okay, you are the 4th chick, so you HAVE to be this combination.

 

For example, earlier in this thread, I posted a picture of 2 birds. One was a YF2 cobalt spangle the other was a sky blue normal carrying violet and cinnamon. They have 4 offspring. Two were violet sky blue spangles, one was a YF2 sky blue cinnamon wing spangle and the other was a yf2 normal sky blue.

 

Of the 4 young, 3 were spangled, not the 50% the theory tells you. Mum was cinnamon, Dad carried cinnamon, but only 1 cinnamon. It is all theoretical. It is possible to breed a spangle to a normal and have 5 chicks, all which are normals.