MB is right. Sex linked genes I'm startnig to understand... reccesive and dom no where near understanding :thankyou:

 

too easy jimmy, Recessive means a bird can hide the gene while showing another, dominant means they show the gene if they have it and can not hide it

 

 

For anyone wondering this is from Chrissy's Anyone's Guess thread. I figured I wouldn't railroad it so I started an off shoot...

 

Liv, I get that but what I can never remember is what genes are Dominant and which ones are reccesive... And out of those genes, are any more reccesive/dominant than others?

 

For instance if I breed an Spangle Cock with a Dom Pied Hen what would I get??? (I am guessing they are both Dominant genes, if not change the Dom pied to Reccesive pied.)

 

Will the spangle overwrite the Dom pied gene or are they co-dominant? As they are not sex linked I am guessing that it doesn't mean all cocks will be Pied and all hens will be spangle or visa versa... I just don't know what the rules are...

 

Is normal Dominant? Is it dominant over the other dominant genes?

Mutations are inherited independantly. This means that if 2 dominant mutations like dominant pied and spangle are mated together you can calculate the inheritance of each mutation seperately then combine the results,

 

The spangle gene:

Spangle 50%, normal 50%

 

The Dominant pied gene:

Dominant pied 50%, normal 50%

 

If we use the spangle result as a base half of the spangles will be also dominant pied and half a the normals will be dominant pied

 

So the combined results will be:

Spangle 25%

Dominant pied spangle 25%

Normal 25%

Dominant pied 25%

Thanks Neville , that really clears it up - i always wondered how that worked myself

Dominant Varieties/Colours

 

Green

Grey (Australian)

Spangle

Australian Dominant Pied

Dutch Pied (Continental Clearflight)

Violet

Crest

Goldenface (Australian Yellowface)

YellowFace Mutant 2

Yellowface Mutant 1

Darkwing

Easley Clearbody

 

The Yellowface and Goldenface are not however dominant to Green

They are Multiple Allelomorphs and I have listed them in their order of dominance to each other.

Grey, Violet and Darkwing are considered Factors

 

Recessive Varieties/Colours

 

Blue

Grey (English)

Recessive Pied (Harlequin, Danish)

Greywing

Clearwing

Dilute (Suffused Yellow and White)

Fallow (Recessive)

Brownwing

Saddleback

Faded

Blackface

* Fallow

* Lacewing (result of crossover but breeds true)

* Ino

* Texas Clearbody

* Opaline

Slate

* Cinnamon

 

Within the recessive list you will find those marked thus * are sex-linked recessive.

Ino and Clearbody are Multiple Allelomorphs. Lacewing can also be placed in this category and used as though it were an Ino or Cinnamon

The Greywing, Clearwing and Dilute are Multiple Allelomorphs and they have been placed in their order of dominance. Although when Greywing and Clearwing are combined they exhibit features of both

 

I have not included Dark Eyed Clears on the list as it is a combination or Dutch and Danish i.e. Combination of a Dominant and a Recessive Gene.

JimmyBanks if you paired a Spangle with an Dominant Pied you would get a bird which will exhibit features from both parents. The pied genes will act and reduce/remove melanin from the feathers in the way it has been instructed to do. Now dependant on which Dominant Pied was used will depend on the areas of the body and how/where the reduction and/or elimination takes place. The Spangle gene will act in all the usual places. The pied gene does not effect it at all. What you will see (or not see) will be that in the places that the pied has removed the melanin leaving yellow or white patches on the wings you will not see those spangle markings. The spangle effect took place and reduced the melanin to the feather edge then the pied effect came along and removed the melanin from the area that the Spangle affected.

 

Co-Dominance is know only in the Greywing-Clearwing combination at this stage as a genetic phenomenom.

 

Normal is dominant. But it is best referred to as wildtype. It is the seed from which all mutations sprang.

 

Edited December 20, 200816 yr by RIPbudgies

Oh WOW!! RIPbudgies!

okay. so all Dominant genes are not as dominant as normal (or wildtype)?? Is that right? But with all other 'dominant' genes they are both present? ie the individual gene will do as is expected irrespective of the other mutation?

okay. so all Dominant genes are not as dominant as normal (or wildtype)?? Is that right? But with all other 'dominant' genes they are both present? ie the individual gene will do as is expected irrespective of the other mutation?

 

:anim_19: Your a winner.

 

 

When a gene is exhibited visually its effect will depend on exactly what it does.

 

I suppose a really good example is the Ino gene. An Ino will look like an Ino (affects Melanin pigement production) but it could also an Opaline (affects melanin pigment distribution), Cinnamon (affects melanin pigment synthesis), Dominant Pied (affects melanin pigment deposition) you just can't see it. All of the other genes have done their thing, so has the Ino but because the effect of the Ino is to remove all Melanin it basically gets the last word.

 

So the processes goes something like this.....the production of Melanin begins and from the beginning is getting a hard time of it cause the Ino put the brakes on. Cinnamon jumped in and decided that, even with what little progress had been made it was going to change the lovely black melanin into a brown melanin. The Opaline came to the party and decided that it would move the now brown melanin to a new home. Now the party pooper the Pied came along and decided it was going to selectively target certain areas and remove what little, now brown melanin, was left.

Edited December 20, 200816 yr by RIPbudgies

Great way to explain the ino gene RIPBudgies

Ahh.. I think

 

 

If not all the melanin was removed would it be an Opaline Spangle pied Lacewing?? Is that even possible??

Edited December 20, 200816 yr by JimmyBanks

Ahh.. I think

 

 

If not all the melanin was removed would it be an Opaline Spangle pied Lacewing?? Is that even possible??

 

 

It would not be a Lacewing as there was no crossover between the Cinnamon and Ino gene.

 

All those mutations are there but they are masked by the effect of the Ino. In my example I used those mutations because they all have a different effect. So the bird is visually a Dominant Pied Opaline Cinnamon Ino but you cannot see any of them except the Ino effect.

 

Does that explain it better for you. It is not the easiest thing to grasp.

yep I get it. Thanks.

 

What about if you bred a dutch pied to a Dominant pied would they both show? or would 50% be normal with 25% dom pied and 25% dutch pied??? Or do they look the same anyway?

Edited December 20, 200816 yr by JimmyBanks