Following Charley's debut at the avian vet... he's been labelled as a bit of a porker. :tut_tut:

 

He's not FAT but she said a little too heavy. She did say he's a very healthy, strong, "well built" little guy, just a LITTLE too heavy.

 

She suggested its usually diet based.. and advised against giving him bird seed as it is the bird equivalent to being on a fried chips diet. I always presumed bird seed was for birds.

 

But...I bought a bag of their pellets, and she suggested that initially I put two dishes out, normal seed in a harder to get to spot and the pellets in an obvious spot. So far he's heading straight to the "harder to get" spot!

 

I'm wondering if you can offer me any other (additional) hints to slimming Charley down a little. The pellet idea is fine but can you buy it normally in a pet shop? The 1.25kg bag was close on $24 and I may be wrong but that seems rather costly, is there a more economical alternative? I'm no scrooge but am hesitant to pay that kind of money (2 budgies go through 1.25kgs very quickly as you all know!!) if there is other feed out there which would do the trick just as well. I'm also not particularly keen on racing off to the vet (its a little out of the way) every week (or two) to buy food for them.

 

Now that his wings are clipped I will be taking him out more often and playing with him. He loves his little plastic ball so I'm hoping to be able to sit with him and "play ball", hopefully he'll run around a little more! :lol2:

 

Any advice will be welcome!!!

Everyone has a difference in opinion about pellets vs seed, here in the US pellets is pushed but an all pellet diet is not good, there are member here that won't touch pellets, there is a good article in the FAQ section under Food and Nutrition about Seed vs Pellet.

 

The thing is it really not seed vs pellet if you are okay with pellets they should only make up a portion of their diet. A bird should never be on a all seed diet and never on an all pellet diet so I don't understand why people "vs" it all the time.

 

To help slim a bird down just like in a human veggies and fruit is what should be a major part of their diet along with excerise. I suggest giving them a well rounded diet and if that includes pellets for you that is okay but increase the veggies .

I would have to agree with Elly. I don't know if its a case of seed V pellets, I think it should be a case of all things in moderation. I probably overdo the vegies and fruit abit sometimes but if there is any excess I get rid of it. If he is going to be out of the cage more then he'll lose weight anyway... Good luck!

If you are able to, see if your vet can give you a sample of Harrison's Mash. My budgies won't touch the SuperFine or Fine size, but they eat up the Mash like crazy. It is not so much a pellet rather than a powder. It will probably take a while for the conversion to eating pellets, but don't give up. I think pellets have a place in a well-rounded diet, just not the whole diet, or even the majority of it. Here is a link to the website for you. They have distributors world-wide, check the 'where to buy' section, Australia is listed.

Edited October 31, 200816 yr by Rainbow

Ahhh McKenzie wouldnt touch harrisons pellets (to hard for him or something). Never knew harrisons came in a mash. I personally am a fan on pellets. When McKenzie was on them he would get pellets, vegies, Egg and Biscuit, and seeds for training. He had Doctor Macks Pellets:

http://www.drmacs.com/products-birddiets.php

They are organic with a short shelf life so you know they are fresh. With only natural preservatives etc.

There is many topics on our forum re seed vs pellets. Here is just a couple of them covered before

 

http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....showtopic=22222

 

http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....showtopic=18890

 

I think you might need to work out the existing diet...what seed and vegies percentages and also what seeds are in your blend, combined with exercise....space, cage and perching.

 

I will never use pellets while I am able to feed my birds a great range of seed and fresh vegies, natural seeding grasses and branches of peppermint and gum.

 

There is a TREND for various vets now to promote pellets. I personally believe this is a kneejerk reaction to alternatives for people who do a seed only bland diet for their birds and no "extras" .

I will NEVER EVER be convinced that a hodge podge of suspect ingredients boiled up into a mash and extruded through machinery and formed into pellets is a good solution for nutrition for my birds.

Edited October 31, 200816 yr by KAZ
typos

I think you might need to work out the existing diet...what seed and vegies percentages and also what seeds are in your blend, combined with exercise....space, cage and perching.

 

I will never use pellets while I am able to feed my birds a great range of seed and fresh vegies, natural seeding grasses and branches of peppermint and gum.

 

There is a TREND for various vets now to promote pellets. I personally believe this is a kneejerk reaction to alrternatives with people who do a seed only bland diet for their birds and no "extras" .

I will never be convinced that a hodge podge of suspect ingredients boiled up into a mash and extruded through machinery and formed into pellets is a good solution for nutrition for my birds.

 

I'm with Kaz on this one.

 

I will never feed my budgies pellets because I believe that providing nutrition as close to their wild habitat is best.

 

So plenty of branches, veggies, and good quality seed. Make sure he gets a good work out flying around.

Astronauts survive on gross stuff that contains everything that they need to survive, it doesn't mean that is the best way for us all to eat!! If you can feed him a great fresh and seed diet then pellets are a waste of time, if you have trouble providing a good healthy diet well then maybe pellets are handy for the extra nutrition :party0011:

 

I think maybe some seeds could be considered 'fried chips' such as sunflower seeds but certainly not all seed

I am with Kaz on this one too. I am not fond of pellets

 

Perhaps your seed mix has a high percentage of hulled oats in it - its the hulled oats that bulks up budgies.

Sunflower seeds also put on weight, but are not very common in regular budgie mix.

Edited October 31, 200816 yr by **Liv**

She suggested its usually diet based.. and advised against giving him bird seed as it is the bird equivalent to being on a fried chips diet.

 

BULL!!! What a heap of you know what. I'm with the majority of others... feed a balanced diet with plenty of fresh fruit/veggies, give them plenty of exercise and enrichment, and you will have a happy healthy bird! Also... birds eat more at certain times of the day... like first thing in the morning, and later in the day/afternoon. If you figure out when Charley eats the most... perhaps serve up his fresh greens then and remove the seed for a little while. That way he MIGHT fill up of them first, and have less room for his seed when you return it??? I've never done this myself, but just an idea :party0011: I look forward to following his weight loss journey.

Wow thats all great advice. I did think it strange that she said NO SEED at all, put him totally on the pellets (and it has to be the pellets they sell at $24 a packet of 1.25kg. I asked can I buy it from supermarket or petshop, she said no, we have it here). Asked could I mix it. No she said. Two dishes, one with pellets, one with seed and gradually reduce the seed until he gets none. I was previously buying normal budgie mix from the petshop and was proud that I always bought "good quality" seed especially mixed for budgies!!

 

I didnt understand her reasoning, she said birds in the wild dont have access to seed all the time so its wrong to feed it to our caged birds.

 

Charley does love veges although I always suspect he plays with them more than eats them.. but then he'd probably be doing just that "in the wild as well". He wont even LOOK at the dish with the pellets and although I've made the seed dish a little more awkward to get to, he doesnt mind! He'll hang upside down and eat if he has to.

 

Another thing that confused me.. she examined him and said he had a good strong little body, very healthy, happy, GREAT little guy!! His only flaw was a few grams overweight. Now should you really take such a healthy little body and completely change his diet? Could he not then eat too little, become "emancipated", ill, listless and . .. lo and behold... off to the vet because he's malnourished? Is it perhaps a case of "if it ain't broke don't fix it"..??

 

I am happy to give him both.. pellets and seeds (and veges) but I'm not happy to take him completely off budgie seed mix.. and am a little afraid that, great as the vet is, they are wanting people to buy their product to "feather their own nest" (pardon the pun!). Going by the advice from you guys on this forum, it seems quite okay to continue to feed him "proper budgie mix".

 

I really appreciate the comments. I was totally confused!!!

Does this woman treat many budgies? Having lots of species here I can say that my larger parrots will happily take pelleted foods as treats but my budgies just look at them like they don't exist. It's a relatively easy thing to do to move a large parrots onto pellets, I don't think alot of vets realise just how much harder it is to introduce a new, very strange, food to a budgie.

I think the reason it is easier for larger birds is that they are used to eating large pieces of food and they are more apt to trying new things. Budgies beaks are small and pellets in my opinion even when made for budgies are large, I had to smash mine up for either one of mine to try them and it took months.

Exactly Elly, large parrots have a naturally inquistive nature when it comes to large food particles

It took me nearly a year to get my baby fully onto pellets. But I have to agree with the vets (and many have said it)- pellets are not as evil as people make them out to be.

The bit about budgies not acsessing seed all the time in the wild is true. Budgies should live 10-12 years in captivity on a good diet. But many only live 5-6. High fat diets cause problems.

Yes but that is exactly the point other were making, high fat diets are the problem, that is why a budgie should have a complete well balanced diets consisting of fruit, veg, native branches and green seeding grasses and yes seed. A pelleted diet WILL be better than an all seed diet, I guess most members aren't convinced that it will be better than a balanced diet

A budgie should be limited to something like a teaspoon or so of seed a day. The rest should be healthy stuff.

How many people limit their birds seed intake.

 

Im not an animal nutrionist (although I did animal nutrition at uni), so I dont feel I am qualiafied to get the intake of vitamins and minerals in my birds diet. If I cant provide a diet that does that (ie pellets) then I am caring well for my animals.

Its funny....a couple of times on here it has been mentioned about budgies not having access in the wild to seeds all the time. I would like to know when...in the wild.....a budgie ever has access to pellets ??

 

To promote pellets to a bird owner who is a seed only supplier of food to their budgie is one thing...in that way they are promoting some added "supposed" extra vitamin intake. But a budgie that has a full and varied diet, like mine do, and many others on here..............pellets are not needed.

They are expensive, a budgie needs to retrain itself to eat differently, and its instincts about what is food and what isnt also needs a form opf retraining.

 

A budgie in the wild has access to anything he can find, a variety we can only just begin to imagine....even meat and insects.

The budgie owners amongst us who go to "the ends of the earth" in providing wide variety of foods, both seeds and natural foods are the ones trying to replicate a natural and wild diet with all forms of vitamins, proteins and the enrichment of flavours and textures to keep them happy and interested. Pellets can be seen as a simple remedy for those that either cannot provide the wider variety, or dont want to bother to try.

I have to dissagree with :

The budgie owners amongst us who go to "the ends of the earth" in providing wide variety of foods, both seeds and natural foods are the ones trying to replicate a natural and wild diet with all forms of vitamins, proteins and the enrichment of flavours and textures to keep them happy and interested. Pellets can be seen as a simple remedy for those that either cannot provide the wider variety, or dont want to bother to try.

 

I for example; do absoluetly everything and anything for my birds. They are my children. I give them vegies soft foods, blah blah yada yada. And yet I still see the merit behind pellets. They are scienfically formulted for budgies and their inherant disorders.

Saying that pellet users are less attentive, educated or motivated to care for their birds is a harsh generalisation!

I personally am slightly taken aback by the gesture.

I do see that there must be a benefit in giving the pellets, it was the "take away the seed" aspect altogether that surprised me. She was adament that seed was bad for them. okay they are probably high in fat content hence me offering to mix the pellets with the seed but she said no, he will just pick out the seed and leave the pellets. Just pellets and of course fruit and veges. I admit he does have access to seed all day long and he IS a little piggy who tends to eat frequently. If there were pellets available from somewhere OTHER than a special trip to the vet I am open to giving it a go. I am not comfortable with having to drive to the vet each fortnight for a 1.25kg $24 bag of pellets which I cant buy ANYWHERE else, to me that seems like a bit "specialised". Its not just the cost, its the principal. Can anyone suggest if there are other brands of suitable pellets which are easier to obtain??? I'm thinking of perhaps keeping on using the two separate food dishes but now and then taking the seed one out to see if he gets hungry enough to investigate the pellets (not to a degree of him starving of course!!!). So far he sniffs the pellets and seems to go "blahhh!!" .. wont touch them. Also.. he seems to "play" with his fruit and veges moreso than eat them, is this still counted as getting his share of fruit and vegies? He is loving his new branches (no more perches) and enjoys chewing the uneven bits. I'm scouring the forum for other ideas of things he can have to chew on and pull apart. I've found a few good ideas so far. (he loves to tear things up and I line his cage floor with the sandpaper type sheets which he nibbles at until there are untidy holes in them everywhere.

Does this woman treat many budgies? Having lots of species here I can say that my larger parrots will happily take pelleted foods as treats but my budgies just look at them like they don't exist. It's a relatively easy thing to do to move a large parrots onto pellets, I don't think alot of vets realise just how much harder it is to introduce a new, very strange, food to a budgie.

MB she is the vet nurse in a well known avian vet surgery. Seems to be experienced however there did seem to be predominantly larger "patients", i.e parrots, galahs etc. with budgies and smaller birds being the minority. The pellets they sell are quite small, however still a lot larger than the seed he is used to. They also have a very strong odour which I wondered if that may be putting him off also. (I dont know how strong their sense of smell is?)

Edited October 31, 200816 yr by thk

Paswells seems to be the most easy to obtain pellets in melb. Im not sure what it is like is brisbane. The easiest way is to go into pet stores and ask them if they stock pellets suitable for budgies. If not see if they can order them in for you.

Now not all birds are equal so preferably get a specialised budgie pellet (like Dr.Macs) rather than a generalised bird pellet.

 

It took me nearly a year to wean my bird onto pellets. He wouldnt have a bar of it. I dont remeber how i did it in the end.

There are heaps of ways to try getting them onto pellets. Such as making a mash with seeds, pretend to eat them yourself etc etc. Be creative!

I have to dissagree with :

The budgie owners amongst us who go to "the ends of the earth" in providing wide variety of foods, both seeds and natural foods are the ones trying to replicate a natural and wild diet with all forms of vitamins, proteins and the enrichment of flavours and textures to keep them happy and interested. Pellets can be seen as a simple remedy for those that either cannot provide the wider variety, or dont want to bother to try.

 

I for example; do absoluetly everything and anything for my birds. They are my children. I give them vegies soft foods, blah blah yada yada. And yet I still see the merit behind pellets. They are scienfically formulted for budgies and their inherant disorders.

Saying that pellet users are less attentive, educated or motivated to care for their birds is a harsh generalisation!

I personally am slightly taken aback by the gesture.

 

Dont take my views personally jwancia. I most likely do a lot for my birds to recreate a more natural diet than anything produced for bird consumption on a more commercial level thats all. I didnt actually say pellet users are less attentive, educated or motivated to care for their birds I said Pellets can be seen as a simple remedy for those that either cannot provide the wider variety, or dont want to bother to try.

 

This is not aimed at you.

Thk... considering Charley is so into you, perhaps prepare yourself a nice bowl of veggies for him AND YOU... and sit down and eat it together. Budgie are 'monkey see monkey do' animals, and because you are his 'monkey' (no offense intended ) he may just follow your lead. I might add, my inside budgies, Gucci and Dolce seem to play with their veggies too... but I do think they eat some of it. He'll get the idea eventually. Maybe even serve it differently. Mine enjoy throwing carrots and peas on the floor, so occasionally I blend everything up together so that's not so easy.

 

This discussion of pellets V's seed has been had before time and time again. There are those who swear by each... it is something that will NEVER be resolved. Regardless of my opinion, trying to convince one of the other is like getting someone to swap religions... not happening. It seems everyone has had their chance to voice their opinions... so I suggest it is left there. Thk has had her question answered regarding this... so I suggest we get back on topic and help her get Charley a little bit more trim and terrific

I know it wasnt aimed at me personally, but im sure you understand what my point was.

One thing you have to keep in mind is this: a bag of seed that may have been on the shelf for a year is nowhere near as nutritionally complete as a grass on the plains that is seeding. Unless you are able to grow your own variety of grasses and allow them to seed, then give them to your budgies while still on the plant.....you cannot duplicate the diet your bird would receive in the wild. You cannot duplicate all of the different foods your budgie might find in an average day in the wild. The best you can hope for is to offer enough of a variety that the available vitamins, minerals, and amino acids that your bird needs to thrive will be consumed in an average day in your home or aviary. Even a large aviary is nowhere near the real estate a wild budgie lives in. Wild birds fly for miles and miles daily in their search for food. Even if you provide many foraging opportunities for your bird (indoors or out) you still cannot conceivably duplicate the effort involved that wild birds experience or the foods they may find to make up their diet. Pellets can provide some of what they are missing, but science even now does not know exactly what that is. If you can get your bird to eat some pellets, great. No, pellets are not found in the wild, but then again, brooders, constant indoor temps, air conditioning, indoor heating, antibiotics or antifungals given to sick birds, and the fencing that makes up your aviary or cage is not found in their natural habitat either. These birds are designed to thrive in a hostile environment, and how many of us deliberately give our birds this type of environment? If they are sick, we treat and treat to give them another chance where nature would not be so kind. Wild budgies live on seeds, yes they do, they also fly many many miles every day in search of these seeds and so expend many calories in their search for food. Birds in our homes and aviaries do not do this. The seeds we offer not only are not as nutritionally complete as wild seeds 'on the vine' so to speak, but the birds in our homes and aviaries do not expend the calories on a day to day basis that their wild counterparts do. An all-seed diet is no good for a bird in our care. It may do in the wild, but not for a bird in the cage so to speak. Since packaged seed is nutritionally inferior to fresh seed the birds would normally eat, we as their caretakers must supplement as best we are able. If pellets are part of that supplementation, then they are part of that supplementation. If they are not, they are not, simple as that.

 

I have a larger parrot that refuses to eat the pellets I want him to have. He will eat pellets I will not feed (he was weaned onto them) because for whatever reason I do not like them. So he does not eat his pellets until I find one he and I can both agree on, LOL. I have been through many, many pellets.....On the other hand, my budgies absolutely love Harrison's Mash, and eat that as a portion of their diet. I can't feed them as mother nature can, them being in my home pretty much precludes that happening, but I offer them a wide variety of foods. They don't find cooked foods in nature either (unless lightening has struck and caused a fire) but they love them nonetheless. They also love sprouts, and fresh vegetables. The ones they like they probably woudn't get in the wild either, but they are a source of vitamins, minerals, and amino acids and the best I can do under the circumstances, as I do not live in Australia or Africa. If you can get your bird to accept pellets as part of his diet, great. If not you will have to go the extra mile to add as much variety as you are able, because no matter what you do, you will not be able to come close to what a wild budgerigar experiences in a single day in his search for food.

Edited November 1, 200816 yr by Rainbow