Posted October 20, 200816 yr Well we had the BRASEA Show on Saturday and whilst I was mostly occupied with the stewarding I did manage to sit in on an open forum about budgie maintenance. One of top breeders was advocating using garden lime on the base of the aviary, about 3-5cm thick which is then covered by sand or clumping cat litter. I've heard mention of garden lime before as a preventative measure against cocci and other diseases but what made me **** my ears was when the breeder in question said he cleaned his aviary only a few times a year .... :hap: Currently my hubby cleans our aviaries at least once a week! Not that I'm advocating cleaning the aviary so little but the idea of maybe raking it once a week as opposed to scraping the floors on bended knee .... well, it sounds a lot better! Also he did mention that if the base gets wet to scrape off the damp lime and add more.
October 20, 200816 yr hmm worth looking at. I dunno about the cleaning though... did he have pictures of his avairy floor?? I'm abit of a skeptic when it comes to shortcuts...
October 21, 200816 yr Interesting ..... Lime can reduce bacterial growth and neutralize odors - I can see why they would use it ... But I am weary of it and the sand being wet and only cleaned a few times a year .... Interesting though ... thanks for sharing
October 21, 200816 yr Maybe he meant that he surface cleaned the wet and dirty areas regularaly but did a full clean a few times a year?
October 21, 200816 yr maybe... I just can't imagine someone only doing a clean a few times a year... It may help reduce bacterial growth but it surely couldn't irradicate all the bacteria.
October 21, 200816 yr I have ben researching lime the past few days due to it being an ingredient of mineral blocks. I was seeking out a good and SAFE recipe for mineral blocks for birds. Most using plater of paris and garden lime. Here is some info on the garden lime... PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION/PROPERTIES Appearance Dolomite Lime:Yellow powder, almost insoluble in water Appearance Garden Lime: White powder, almost insoluble in water Boiling Point: Nil Melting Point: Decomposes about 825c Flashpoint: Non-combustible (does not burn) Solubility in water: Approximately 14mg per litre HEALTH HAZARD INFORMATION Swallowed: Ingestion of large quantities can cause irritability, nausea, dehydration and constipation. Estimated lethal dose for an adult is over 1kg. Considered to be of very low toxicity. Eye: Irritant. Risk of mechanical scratching to eye surface. May cause lacrimation. Skin: No harmful effects reported. Inhaled: Dust will irritate the nose, throat and respiratory system. Symptoms include sneezing and slight nose irritation. CHRONIC: Regular ingestion of more than 8g per day (calcium carbonate) reported to cause blood and kidney disorders. Prolonged uncontrolled exposure to airborne dust is not recommended due to respiratory illness. FIRST AID Swallowed: If swallowed, do NOT induce vomiting, give a glass of water. Eyes: If in eyes, hold eyes open, flush with copious amounts of water for atleast 20 minutes and seek medical attention. If irritation persists, see a doctor. Skin: If skin contact occurs, wash with water Inhaled: Remove from exposure to fresh air. Blow nose and clean nostrils with moist cotton wool. First Aid: Non specified. Advice to Doctor: Product is industrial limestone. Contact poisons information centre. PRECAUTIONS FOR USE Engineering Controls: Avoid dust formation. Personal Protection: Avoid contact with skin and eyes . Avoid breathing the dust. Personal protection to be selected from those recommended below, as appropriate to mode of use, quantity handled and degree of hazard: - Dust mask - Goggles - Gloves, rubber or plastic - Overalls Flammability: The product is not flammable. The info on the plaster of paris that most people use in mineral blocks is also not as safe as we would like it to be. There is also a difference between calcium carbonate ( the safe one ) and calcium sulfate aka plaster of paris and not the safe one. Yet plaster of paris is the ingredient listed in recipes for mineral blocks. Plaster of paris info http://www.sciencestuff.com/msds/C1458.html I have decided to not use mineral blocks anymore and to go back to calcivet and other safer things. You dont know quite frankly whats in some things mass produced for birds. Also some things being used in common practice with some breeders may be the reason for some of their bird losses that they have yet to discover. :rofl: **sorry Renee for sidetracking for a moment...but the lime part of this was also a part of my current research and they are kind of linked. Very interesting stuff. Edited October 21, 200816 yr by KAZ
October 21, 200816 yr Author So today I've spent scrubbing the aviary. First off scraping all surfaces free of poo, then scrubbing with soapy solution and finally scrubbing and washing again with concentrate KD solution. Here's the grille that goes below the perches: When it all dried off this afternoon I laid 1 inch thick Dolemite Lime on the floor: Tomorrow I'm getting a trailer of white washed sand delivered and I will lay that on top of the lime, a couple of inches thick. I had thought of using clumping cat litter but decided against it as the sand can easily be raked and if seed blows out of the seed catcher it will be harder to clean as it could fall between the tiny pebbles.
October 21, 200816 yr Author Interesting .....Lime can reduce bacterial growth and neutralize odors - I can see why they would use it ... But I am weary of it and the sand being wet and only cleaned a few times a year .... Interesting though ... thanks for sharing No, no, no. I'm not advocating cleaning a few times a year! But what I do hope to be able to do is rake off the poo once a week as opposed to scrubbing the floor once weekly.
October 21, 200816 yr keep us posted I would be very interested how you go with this... just one query how big is the spaces in the wire mesh? would rodents be able to tunnel through the lime and sand? well maybe two queries... how often do you have to replenish the lime?
October 21, 200816 yr Author keep us posted I would be very interested how you go with this... just one query how big is the spaces in the wire mesh? would rodents be able to tunnel through the lime and sand? well maybe two queries... how often do you have to replenish the lime? Well the mesh we used is mice/snake safe and it's on the sides and roof. The base is on cement pavers and we've cemented all along the sides so no chance of visits from little nasties. As for the replenishing of the lime and sand ... I'll have to see how it goes. What I do take away from Saturday's chat is that it does need to be replaced if it gets wet, not such an issue during the dry summers here, more of a Spring/Winter issue ... but as I said, I'll just have to play it by ear.
October 21, 200816 yr Author well I look forward to observing your little experiment. Good Luck! As a control tomorrow I'm going to scrub out my second aviary and Retirement Village and add sand on its own.
October 22, 200816 yr Author Well the sand was delivered late this morning: I chose white washed sand because that's what they use for sand pits- if it's good enough for little kiddies, it's good enough for my darlings! :hug: We dumped bucketfuls and then evened it out with a broom and rake, making sure the sand covered the lime by 3-4 cms. All done - but there's something missing ....? Oh yes, here they are!
October 22, 200816 yr Author okay, so it's action stations here! :dog: We've scraped and cleaned the Adult aviary and filed with sand - NO lime for this one. And here are the lovelies! Not such a good photo I'm afraid .... one day I will take the time to get it right (it does require patience ... :hug: )
October 22, 200816 yr are you not adding lime to the adult one to see the difference or is there another reason?
October 22, 200816 yr Author are you not adding lime to the adult one to see the difference or is there another reason? That's right! Just want to compare them and see if any differences emerge.
October 22, 200816 yr great idea... I have bookmarked this thread to see the final judgement. Your birds are looking very happy
October 28, 200816 yr After reading Kaz's bit on lime just wandering how save it really is because I was considering doing it too. My 3 main flights have sand floors and when we put the sand down it was at least 10 cm deep and every week I carefully sweep up the dropping etc with a brush and shovel trying not to take too much sand but as you can guess sand goes too. Well all my sand is gone and it only last about 12 months or so. I did put more on each time I cleaned but haven't for a while. But my main concern about the lime is that my birds dig and it's amazing what they fine so if I was to use lime they would end up digging it up so would that be dangerous. I have been begging Greg to cement them but he won't. RATS.
October 28, 200816 yr How about laying the lime and then putting a layer of thin shade cloth and then the sand over the top, that way any liquid would still run through but the birds wouldn't be able to dig in the lime layer Personally I have lino on all my floors and I find the dropping don't really stick to it, a good sweep with a hard bristle brom and it's all gone. In my new aviaries that I'm just setting up the lino will be layed over a timber false floor as they aren't on cement Edited October 28, 200816 yr by melbournebudgies
October 28, 200816 yr Yes my partner reckons that anything on the floor like lino and even cement attract mice because he thinks that's a hiding place for them. He most likely is right though, because I have never had mice in my aviaries yet. Ouch touch wood. I do have one flight which he did cement but that runs off my breeding room, it is like an indoor flight for my babies. I call it my baby flight in breeding season and my show flight in show season. I think I will just do the sand to be safe as I haven't had any trouble yet . Edited October 28, 200816 yr by splat
October 28, 200816 yr Yes my partner reckons that anything on the floor like lino and even cement attract mice because he thinks that's a hiding place for them. He most likely is right though, because I have never had mice in my aviaries yet. Ouch touch wood. I do have one flight which he did cement but that runs off my breeding room, it is like an indoor flight for my babies. I call it my baby flight in breeding season and my show flight in show season. I think I will just do the sand to be safe as I haven't had any trouble yet . Cement is best. Rats dug into our soil floor aviaries and killed a lot of birds.
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