This is Sunny Boy. I had him from 1996 to 2005, and he was a fantastic pet - incredibly tame. He was an only budgie for a few years, but eventually we got others and he even had a few babies. I'm remembering him a lot lately because I've got Cosmo now. And with my renewed interested in budgies, I have become curious about what type Sunny Boy actually was.

 

I might put up some pics of his babies too if that helps. Sorry these are all old - they were all taken in the late 90s.

 

His back:

 

His front (note his head is a brighter shade of yellow than his body):

 

Side on (note grey tail):

 

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This is Sunny Boy and his partner (the green one - not the blue one).

Front:

 

Back:

 

All I know about her genetically is that when paired with a sky normal later on, she produced green and sky spangles.

 

With Sunny Boy, she had olive normals and spangles, and some yellow ones. But the yellow ones had different markings. Two of the yellow ones, I think were cinnamon. The other one had grey markings like Sunny Boy. The yellow ones were all female.

 

The yellow one who looked like Sunny Boy... (Maestro)... she paired up with a sky spangle, and only had two surviving chicks, and both were a really bright clear yellow with next to no markings - not murky like her and sunny boy.

 

Two of his daughters (unfortunately I only took their pics as babies):

 

Sunny Boy's grandson:

 

I believe that all these were born with red eyes, but can't remember if they stayed red (the grandson obviously didn't). I got Sunny Boy after his first moult and never saw him with red eyes so I have no idea what they were when he was born.

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okay I know I've given you WAY too much family information when you can probably look at Sunny Boy himself and tell me what he is. But if anyone's got time on their hands and enjoys this kind of things you could analyse his genes if you feel like it. I don't mind if nobody does, I'm just curious as to what you'd call Sunny Boy.

 

Thanks

okay I'll start off- he is a greygreen and the babies were greygreen not olive. NOw to the dilution of him and the babies I have no idea!! But the red eyes that went black indicates cinnamon so he is split cinnamon, he seems too diluted to be greywing but thats always debatable on here Lol!

Hehe okay good, I've given you all an interesting one to work out apparently :hap:

 

 

I don't know about dilution. In my mind, diluted budgies look kind of pale and faded. He was still a bright colour overall. But I am probably wrong-I know nothing about dilution.

 

If he's a greygreen and not yellow, then how did his also greygreen daughter produce such a bright yellow boy when paired with a sky spangle?

 

(I know very little about budgie genetics once you go beyond the basics)

 

Could he have been a cinnamon wing DF spangle ????

 

If i remember correctly the cheek patches are an indication of cinnamon ....

Edited October 16, 200816 yr by Neat
added more

Sunny Boy must have been a grey-green cinnamon greywing (or possibly grey-green greywing split for cinnamon). His green partner was a spangle. The two daughters pictured are both grey-green cinnamon spangles. This would be consistant with the pair also producing green and grey-green spangle and normal males. I think that the other daughter you mentioned must have been a grey-green cinnamon spangle, her cinnamon marking would have been quite pale having the spangle mutation as well. She must have been a spangle to produce a double factor spangle when mated to another spangle. It is normal for double factor spangles to be bright yellow. The cinnamons would have been born with red eyes.

Edited October 16, 200816 yr by Neville

WOW Neville!

Krosp he is very pretty and is family is lovely.

 

Neville, he would be a full body grey wing correct because the body is bright but the wings are diluted or could he be a clearwing?

Krosp he is very pretty and is family is lovely.

 

Neville, he would be a full body grey wing correct because the body is bright but the wings are diluted or could he be a clearwing?

He could have been full body greywing. I think that the wings were pale because he was both cinnamon and greywing but it could have been cinnamon and clearwing which would account for the bright body colour

WOW Neville!!! You are so good at genetics :question: :mallet:

Krosp he is very pretty and is family is lovely.

 

Neville, he would be a full body grey wing correct because the body is bright but the wings are diluted or could he be a clearwing?

He could have been full body greywing. I think that the wings were pale because he was both cinnamon and greywing but it could have been cinnamon and clearwing which would account for the bright body colour

 

That is why I ask because the body is bright and following more the full body or the clearwing. Though let me ask you I didn't realize they could be considered greywing if their wings were brown I thought that would be just cinnamon but I see how they could be carrying the 2 different genes because they lay on the different allele...so how do you explain a bird with brown being a greywing? :question:

...so how do you explain a bird with brown being a greywing? :hap:

Greywing on a green series bird is often slightly brownish. Greywing combined with cinnamon would make the cinnamon a much paler brown but so would clearwing

Edited October 17, 200816 yr by Neville

so the grey and cinnamon combine in coloration like grey green? Just getting it straight :laughter:.

Haha this has gone right over my head now. But it is still interesting to watch the discussion and try to figure it out. When I was breeding them (as a teenager) all I knew about was roughly the dominance of the basic colours (blue, green etc) and the normal/spangle stuff. Which is why it was kind of strange when Sunny boy had different looking yellow budgies in each generation of his family.

 

I'm a bit confused about how he can be cinnamon - he had pale grey markings, like how his tail was pale grey. I don't understand how he could be both cinnamon and greywing. Obviously he must have carried it though at least, since his daughters were cinnamon... but are you saying he could have physically manifested as both greywing and cinnamon in a kind of blend?

 

 

Is the bright yellow grandson a clearwing then? And if so does that mean the spangle father somehow gave the clearness so to speak? He had red eyes as a baby and doesn't now, if that helps.

Cinnamon is a sex-linked gene

Greywing is a recessive gene

 

2 different genes on different alleles so they can be combined.

 

Sunny Boy looks like a double factor spangle which means he would carry 2 spangle genes 1 from the hen and 1 from the cock, his eyes were red and turned black with iris rings because he is carrying the cinnamon gene I assume but is masked by the double factor spangle gene, both his parents would have had to be cinnamon for him to be a cinnamon because if he was split that means that only his mom was a cinnamon. He is probably an olive which means he is carrying 2 dark factors that is why he is more of the drabby yellow you are saying PLUS you said he produced olives too.

 

I can't see the green hen's marking was she a spangle too?

 

Did the yellow females have red eyes? If so that means that Sunny Boy was split to Lutino and that is why you had 2 yellow birds with red eyes.

 

The single factor spangles came from him since is was a double factor spangle.

 

The cinnamon's they produced were they also females?

 

Getting late here so I hope I typed that up all right, I know what I mean lol :laughter:

Edited October 17, 200816 yr by Elly

I don't know if Sunny Boy's eyes were red, because I got him at 4 months old and they weren't then but all his yellow kids had red eyes that had gone black by then, so his may well have been too. I just can't know that for sure.

 

His partner was a spangle.

 

The yellow females, as far as I remember, had red eyes that went black. All his yellow offspring were females (and may all have been cinnamon - at least two of the three were).

 

He and his partner (who was spangle) did actually have a couple of olive normals too, as well as olive spangles. So the normal must have come from the mum then?

 

So... (just guessing here)...

Sunny Boy's daughter must have got the spangle gene from both her parents but appeared looking more like a drab yellow with markings... but when she herself mated with a sky spangle, they produced that bright yellow boy with no markings.... so does that make him a df spangle? or is he lutino or clearwing? (he had red eyes that went black).

 

This is a good learning exercise for me haha

2 Spangles give you Double Factor Spangles give you 50% single spangles those are the ones with marking and 50% double factor spangles the birds that have black iris rings and no markings that you had and they are probably masking the cinnamon gene which is why the eyes went from red to black.

 

He was carrying the cinnamon gene that is why the females were cinnamon.

 

There could have been no normals with this pairing only spangles single and doubles.

 

The drab yellow came from the dark factors that produce the olive coloration not the spangle gene, the reason why her off spring was a bright yellow is probably because he may have had only 1 dark factor because the other bird she was mated to had none (skyblue = 0 dark factors). So if the green would have came through he would have been a dark green not an olive but the green did not because of the double factor spangle. THe male could have been carrying the cinnamon gene and that is why the offspring eyes went from red to black too.

Thank you - this is finally starting to make sense! :party0011:

 

I'm assuming when you said the pair could have no spangles, you meant Sunny Boy's daughter and the sky spangle? Not Sunny Boy and his green spangle partner...because they did have normals. I am pretty sure this is what you meant.

2 Single Factor Spangles or 1 Single Factor x Double Factor Spangle can not have normals.

If they had normals did you have any other bird that she was in contact with? The only way they could have normals is if they were both Single Factor Spangles.

Sunny Boy and his green spangle partner did have two olive normals, in the same clutch as an olive spangle. She did have another mate long after Sunny Boy, but he was a sky normal. With him, she had sky spangles, green spangles like herself, and one green normal. There is no chance that the olive normals had a different father than Sunny Boy. How strange!

I think I am getting confused, Sunny Boy's Grandson is a double factor spangle, not Sunny Boy himself correct....you are saying Sunny Boy and his Spangle Wife had normals yes that is possible.

Sunny Boy must have been a grey-green cinnamon greywing (or possibly grey-green greywing split for cinnamon). His green partner was a spangle. The two daughters pictured are both grey-green cinnamon spangles. This would be consistant with the pair also producing green and grey-green spangle and normal males. I think that the other daughter you mentioned must have been a grey-green cinnamon spangle, her cinnamon marking would have been quite pale having the spangle mutation as well. She must have been a spangle to produce a double factor spangle when mated to another spangle. It is normal for double factor spangles to be bright yellow. The cinnamons would have been born with red eyes.

In fact Neville, explains it here perfectly on why everything came out the way it did. :party0011:.

Oh that's good that Neville's explanation fits neatly haha.Yes Sunny Boy and a spangle produced normals, but his daughter and a spangle did not.I can't really understand how that works, since Sunny Boy looked a lot like his daughter, and both mated with spangles, but oh well. I think I need to draw a diagram haha then I should get it.

 

 

 

edit: okay I get it now... wow that's fascinating haha. I'd better stop, or I might get tempted to get into breeding again haha... just kidding.

Edited October 18, 200816 yr by krosp

haha but if you never bred you wouldn't of know exactly what genetics Sunny Boy was carrying... just wondering is he names after the iceypole thingy's... if so do you also have a Sambo??

Yes he was named after the iceblocks :what: but we never had a Sambo

haha!! That is awesome! I love it!