This bird IS a dom pied with black eyes and iris rings. No lacewing involved.

Sorry it is hard to tell on the screen at times is she a grey or a cinnamon marked? Just making sure I am sure I can go through the gobs of posts so if you can help me out here thanks.

The markings are very pale grey

Anyone like to try and work out this hen ?

Similar thing to this bird isnt it kind of ?

Now that is all sorted out

 

I think she is a Diluted Grey Green Dominant Pied Texas Clearbody

 

I add dilute because the TCB standard is that the wings are to be darker and her's are lighter so something is diluting it and because it looks like an 80% fade & there is very little marking on the head. I go with dilute vs greywing because that is only a 50% fade, I say greygreen because the cheeks patches are silvery.

 

All these lay on different alleles so there is no reason why you can't have this combo.

 

TCB - Sex linked

Dilute/Greywing - lay on the same allele so it is 1 or the other

Dominant Pied - own allele

 

The blue bird isn't a TCB though because it has the blue body color and not the white so she would be a SkyBlue Greywing Dominant Pied - I say greywing because the grey is not as light as the first picture from what my eye can see - only about a 50% dilutation on that bird.

Edited September 14, 200816 yr by Elly

oooo...I wonder if you are right, that's similiar to what I was thinking but I said greywing but I like your theory. Kaz it's time to enlighten us!

Interesting......

She was sold as a greywing dom pied. However she would have to have grey in her tail which she has not. Texas clearbody doesnt appear to be in this birds genetics at all. I am of the opinion this bird is a grey green dilute dom pied.

She will be coming home to me next weekend.

Does she have any pied markings on her body at all? (other than her rump of course)

Though Kaz, I say TCB because the body color I believe would be more green and it is yellow like a TCB, when I looked up pictures of just a dilute green the body is much more green plus she has a green suffision under the tail. How far to you have her heritage? Maybe the TCB has finally come out in her heritage?

Does she have any pied markings on her body at all? (other than her rump of course)

If you look at her upper chest she is darker greenish there but the dilution makes it hard to discern

It is interesting Elly that TCB jumped out at both of us, it would be interesting to see if you got TCB cocks or just hens if you put her to a TCB

 

Ah...in that case she reminds me of the way the chest markings on this girl are very washed out due to fallow (which is why I asked about her eye colour earlier)

 

 

Incidentally I'll have to get another photo of this girl as she is looking gorgeous now that the rest of those brown feathers have dropped out

Edited September 14, 200816 yr by melbournebudgies

Though Kaz, I say TCB because the body color I believe would be more green and it is yellow like a TCB, when I looked up pictures of just a dilute green the body is much more green plus she has a green suffision under the tail. How far to you have her heritage? Maybe the TCB has finally come out in her heritage?

A great many of the available photos on the net of dilutes are pet type birds with a few extra genes thrown in. I am not sure I agree with TCB as I would expect some more colouring in tail and flights.

Perhaps I should take this bird to the rares show on the 4th and get her analysed

The tail and the flights could be comprised because of the dominant pied gene and the dilute gene (on the pics I saw they don't have much in the way of coloring). I would also expect it to be darker in the TCB too especially from the pictures I observed but when you have several mutations coming together you have to expect the unexpected. I believe taking her there to be evaluated would be a good decision other then breeding her genes out and seeing what she is really genetically made of

I will also seek advice from her original breeder to see if he has records of her genetic history.

She looks like a d.pied Black eye self

Does she have any pied markings on her body at all? (other than her rump of course)

If you look at her upper chest she is darker greenish there but the dilution makes it hard to discern

 

 

I think that she is a Dompied Clear wing - The TCB could be there too I thought at first a dilute cinny too - As her

cheek patches are a silvery lilac colour ...

Does she have any pied markings on her body at all? (other than her rump of course)

If you look at her upper chest she is darker greenish there but the dilution makes it hard to discern

I think that she is a Dompied Clear wing - The TCB could be there too I thought at first a dilute cinny too - As hercheek patches are a silvery lilac colour ...

Per the standards under the Show Section and other places I have read Clear Wings has violet cheek patches, dark blue tail feathers and full body. The cheek patches & the tail does not match this mutation along with the fact that the body coloring is diluted so you have to have either Clear Wing or Dilute not both because they lay on the same allele. That is my theory of why she couldn't be a clearwing.

She looks like a d.pied Black eye self

Description of a black eyed self:A black eyed self bird should have their back, rump, breast flanks and underparts all an even shade of colour throughout. MARKINGS: Faint markings are found on their cheeks, back of head, neck and wings. EYES: Dark with a white iris ring.LIGHT YELLOW (Buttercup) : has white suffused or pale violet cheek patches and a neutral tail feather suffused with ground colour.DARK YELLOW: has white suffused or pale violet cheek patches and a neutral tail feather suffused with darker ground colour than that of the Light Yellow variety.OLIVE YELLOW: has white suffused or pale violet cheek patches, and a neutral tail feather, suffused with darker ground colour than the Dark Yellow variety.White: has white suffused or pale violet cheek patches, and a neutral tail feather with ground colour suffusionThis is the description of them from what Aly posted in mutations and you know Pie, I can agree to with that statement, I always forget about the BES because it is rarer. Hopefully Norm, will see this he does have some.

Edited September 14, 200816 yr by Elly

okay I think it’s a Yellow Black Eye Self Dominant Pied. Re the spot on the back of the head thing…I believe the small spots are a sign of a Recessive Pied & as said Dominants can’t be split, but I think a bird with a large spot [only] on the back of it’s head is still a Dominant Pied as it only needs that one spot & genetically it’s already a Pied.

Refresh my memory. Black eyed selfs are a recessive ? variety ? If so how would a recessive trait show on and over a dominant trait ?

Well it would be 2 different allele's correct? I am going for a shot in the dark and working my way through it maybe Norm has a better explanation or even Neville? Like blue is recessive but you can have a blue dominant pied right? Or like the DEC is a combo of the clearfight (which is dominant) and the recessive pied. So why could this not be a combo too?

I will be receiving this bird next weekend and will take some further pictures all over the bird and in different light conditions. I will also be attending a bird show on the 4th October with our own Dave Mc Minn in attendance, so I will ask the judge to work the bird out. I will also be in touch with the actual breeder of the bird to see if there is an explanation to help solve the mystery :budgiedance:

Dilute greywing clearflight pied

My first impression was that she was a dominant pied light green dilute. With the colour of the cheek patches could be grey green instead of light green. Dilute is just the modern name for what 50 years ago we would have called a self

Edited September 15, 200816 yr by Neville

Dilute greywing clearflight pied

This confirms my thoughts

My first impression was that she was a dominant pied light green dilute. With the colour of the cheek patches could be grey green instead of light green. Dilute is just the modern name for what 50 years ago we would have called a self

Thankyou Neville

I have no idea, but my 2 cents worth is she is just.........pretty :D

You can have a Dominant Pied on a Recessive Mutation…Dominant Pied is just another Mutation, it doesn’t mean it Dominates everything else, it can be a Dilute which is what a BES is [Dilute Green Series bird] Self means the bird is one colour, but most BES aren’t perfect they still have Pattern, they mostly mate them with Cinnamons to remove as much Pattern as possible…of course it’s also possible it is Grey wing as well, it would be very difficult to tell…The same as you also can have a Dominant Pied, Fallow. I’m sticking to BES Dominant Pied see what you find out.

The hen is home here now so here are some more pictures

you can see the definite pied markings across her chest area...the pied band.

 

 

 

 

and her tail

I have no idea. I will need to see her for myself. Just post her to me and i will let you know what she is when she arrives

 

You will get her back - promise :devil: