What do you get when you mate a Dark Green Dusk with an Opaline Spangle Cobalt?

I was hoping for some more Blue series Dusks. Both my Dark Green Dusk cocks I bought are 5 years old & not producing that many fertile eggs, the most have been three to a batch. With this batch the hen, a first time Mum produced 7 eggs, but only one hatched, I could see it was Spangle from the beginning, but now it’s got feathers it looks like…A YELLOW BLACK EYED SELF, SPANGLE…yes I know pictures soon. I was planning to try & breed one, one day. The hen I bred myself & as far as I knew there was no Dilute in her breeding, the Dusk was split Blue & Lutino…but the breeder also breeds BES’s. But it was still a surprise [pleasant]…it could also have Dusk in it, time will tell.

Also some other Happy news, at last I have my first Blue series Texas Clear Body. I tried breeding one before mating a TCB to a Blue bird & I knew he was split Blue, but nothing but Green birds. Now these parents are an Opaline Dark Green/slit Blue/TCB cock & TCB hen, she must be split Blue also…

WOW!!! how exciting!!! look forward to your pictures

How cool! I cant wait to see the pics, of course, me being biased, I am looking forward to seeing your blue tcb most

PS My tcb green hen has kicked all her eggs out

Oh well, try for round 2.

Edited August 24, 200816 yr by Sunnie

Nice score Norm!

What a very pleasant suprise on both of them !

Great news Norm

 

As Mama used to say .....

Life is like a box of chocolates.....you never know what you are gonna get !!

 

oh Kaz ... Norm, I don't understand all the stuff about genetics and hope one day my mind will want to learn it, but by going from your excitement, I'm excited for you!!! :hap:

Norm that is COOL.

 

Can you explain how you got the Yellow Black Eyed Self for me and others, you know I love to understand the why.

NORM ... YAY ... Congrats on the surprises

 

I can see you now

 

:hap:

How cool! I cant wait to see the pics, of course, me being biased, I am looking forward to seeing your blue tcb most :budgiedance:

PS My tcb green hen has kicked all her eggs out :budgiedance:

Oh well, try for round 2.

 

Sorry to hear that news Sunnie…maybe next batch will be more of a success, that’s often common with first batch birds, but your TCB isn’t that young is it? Maybe you will have to look at fostering her eggs, maybe even try it on her next batch just to be sure, if you have another batch that you don’t value their eggs so much you could swap her eggs with theirs. I don’t recommend fostering young or eggs from birds that normally can’t rear their own young, but when you buy special birds & find they have problems I would use this method to at least get young from them, as often their young wont have the same fault & then at least you get something out of them. If the problem persisted in their young I would cull them. Good luck…You biased towards TCB’s Sunnie I can’t believe that.

Norm you didn't answer my question :budgiedance:

Norm that is COOL.

 

Can you explain how you got the Yellow Black Eyed Self for me and others, you know I love to understand the why.

 

I can’t really explain it Elly, as you know BES is a Recessive Dilute. So both parents must be carrying the Mutation, it’s bit like winning the lottery; just by chance unbeknown to me these two birds must be carrying this gene. Then wallah!!! Out of Blue we have a BES [Dilute].

 

A question to everyone can you explain this to me about Dilutes?

 

We have a BES which is a Dilute, they come in two series Green [Yellow] Blue [White]…in the BES the Blue series bird is almost pure White with slight wing pattern markings.

 

But then & that’s what I would like to know if any one has any ideas…you can get a Blue series Dilute, which has white wings, but the body colour is a Reduced Blue colour…is this two definite separate Mutations or is it just degrees of suffusion?

There are 3 types of Dilute

 

Dilute with 80% washed out

Clearwing which has the bright body and the clearwings

Greywing which is where the body is 50% diluted with greywings OR full budy grey wing with grey wing and a bright body

 

It all lays on the same gene

Norm you didn't answer my question

Patience Elly patience…all comes to those who wait…LOL…

 

Did that answer your question?

lol I am a woman, we are not patient and I noticed you answered the other question anyways did you see what I wrote about the dilute gene

Edited August 25, 200816 yr by Elly

lol I am a woman, we are not patient and I noticed you answered the other question anyways did you see what I wrote about the dilute gene

Elly I didn't know that impatience was a sex-linked gene…LOL… You learn a little every day…even at my age it’s a wonderful thing…the mysteries of life…

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah thanks, but I'm not sure that answers my problem. I have one case of a bird that just came out of a pair where one birds was a Spangle, it's a Spangle, with almost no wing pattern, as I presume it's a Dilute & the Blue on it's breast seem to me to be about 50% of Normal Sky Blue.

 

In my understanding with a BES the ideal is to have a birds with as little suffusion of body colour as can be obtained. In the Yellow the Breast colour should be as close to Buttercup Yellow as possible without any suffusion, same as the wings.

 

In other Dilutes the colour is Diluted, but the breast is still more of a Reduced Green…maybe it's just levels of Suffusion.

 

And the same with the Blue, mentioned above, but the Blue on its breast seems more than Suffusion & a definite colour only reduced.

 

My understanding is that there are three Mutations on the same allele as mentioned by you above…Dilute …Clearwing…Greywing. I think our Greywings here is Australia have full colour on the breasts while in the USA & maybe other countries there is a 50% body colour Greywing. But I'm just wondering if there are two Mutations of Dilute too…or whether it's just the amount of Suffusion…I hope that sounds clear?

Edited August 25, 200816 yr by Norm

I think what you are asking is if suffision and dilute are the same thing or different?

I think what you are asking is if suffision and dilute are the same thing or different?

No I think I’m asking is there [ONE] Dilute where the colour is the same all over wing & breast, baring some amount of Suffusion.

 

Then another [TWO] where it’s still Dilute with no colour in the wings, but only a reduced colour in the breast. Or is it just the one Mutation, with variation? I will be interested to see what others think.

#2 you would be explaning clearwing & dilute and that is on the same allele they are one or the other

#1 I would say sure yes there are birds that are 1 color and they could carry the dilute gene like say an ino but still have suffusion too.

You might be right Elly #2 may just be a Clearwing…in my case with Spangle added on.

Edited August 25, 200816 yr by KAZ

Thanks for the advice Norm, I might try that. I am also not going to check on my birds so often after their first couple of eggs until it comes close to hatching time, hopefully to avoid addling etc.

Here are some pictures I promised, sadly they are not of good quality, I tried in natural light, but they were worse so went back to flash, but the detail of feathers isn't good. I would share lots more pictures of my birds, but it takes so long to get good pictures that I really haven't got the time, as nothing else gets done. Also I was trying to get into photobucket last night & this morning, but it wouldn't recognise my password, so eventually I had to change it to a new one & then finally I got access.

 

 

The young chick that was a surprise, that I think is a BES Spangle. The colour pattern in its wing is Dark Green & it has suffusion in the breast, which might mean that it also has Dusk in it.

 

 

Another BES fostered to the same batch, it came from a Cinnamon Opaline hen that must be split for BES & a BES Yellow cock. That was another surprise. I was out crossing the BES cock to get splits to improve the quality of my BES's. I got one BES in their first batch.

 

A picture of my first Blue series Texas Clear Body.Its breast feathers look almost White.

 

 

A picture of the bird that I was talking about with Elly the other morning. It came in a batch of Spangles, it's Blue was so faded to all the others, It's a Spangle, but I just wonder if also it's some kind of Dilute, but not like the BES where most of the colour is gone on their breast.

 

Sorry that also was the best picture I could get, the wings are washed out, but there is little wing pattern.Like Elly said maybe it's a Clearwing…Maybe Clearwing Spangle…but compared to its nest mates its Blue was about 50% less than a Sky Blue…any ideas?

 

 

Well finally I got that post finished, even when I got into photobucket I had lots of problems, it kept ceasing up during upload. Someone else mentioned the other days they were having troubles too, I wonder if the site is getting overloaded.

 

That took me two hours to do that whole post then I edited it to change a couple of words & now it's a total mess I haven't a clue what happened…If it's totally stuffed remove it & I'll try again later as my computer time has gone this morning.

 

 

****FIXED it for you Norm ****

Edited August 26, 200816 yr by **Liv**

Thanks for that Liv...

they are beautiful Norm, I didn't have any issues with photobucket, maybe dump your cookies and temp files and see if it runs smoother or use a different browser and see if that works.

Another picture of the two BES’s I thought it might show a bit more, the one on the left is the Spangle from the Dusk, note it’s colour seems stronger than the other one, maybe because it has Dusk in it.

 

The pictures might not be so great, but at least you can’t say that I don’t go through lots to get a good pick. I think it might be a hen.

Nice chicks Norm...they seem to be a good size too