* I know Kaz did a similar topic but i did this for another board and figured I would cross post to here, feel free to add anything I missed and make sure you go to the toliet first it's sort of ling sorry*

 

This is in no way a complete list and I am happy for people to add to it, just something I put together to convince someone else not to start breeding budgies.

 

Disclaimer - it’s not that I want to put people off more that I want to let people know that breeding is not a walk in the park.

 

Disclaimer 2 – I am not an expert all the information is from talking to people, research on the net and some very helpful Budgie forums.

 

So you want to breed, you have a nice pair of pet type Budgies and you think they would make nice babies? So you need to know a few things.

 

1 – Breeding budgies is not simple,

- in fact it is hard and if you are at all attached to your birds then you are running the risk of losing one if not both of them

 

2- Breeding Budgies is not cheap

- If possible you should always have at least 2 - 3 pairs down to breed at the same time so you may need to expand your Budgie family to at least 4 - 6 adults

 

3 – Breeding Budgies takes time

- if you don’t have a couple of hours to spare at the end of everyday and at least an hour at the start then walk away now

 

4 – Breeding Budgies is heart breaking

- So you are going to have cute little babies right? Yes IF the hatch and IF they survive and the parents survive, how are you going to handle a chick or your beloved pet dead in the breeding box? You know you will one day end up faced with that reality.

 

So now I have my four major points out of the way, you still think you want to breed Budgies?

 

So now you need to think are your Budgies up to breeding?

 

Recommended ages for a breeding hen is 18month to 3 years (maybe 4 IF she is a really good hen and is in great condition) for a cock is 18 month to 4 years (again if he is filling eggs and it’s not taking to much out of him them you might be able to push it out another year). Anyone who says but they are having sex at 6 months of age so they can have chicks is a fool, a 12 year old child can have sex and get pregnant but that does not mean she is emotionally ready to have a child, heck a 5 year old is the youngest female to have a baby but should she have been put in that situation? Grr at you people. Hens need time to mature and be physically and emotional ready to raise young.

If you don’t know the ages of your birds then don’t breed from them, nothing is worse then seeing a hen kill herself trying to have an egg or working herself to death feeding babies.

 

Pairing your birds So you have a cock and a hen, does not mean they are going to mate! Normally you put them down in idea conditions and within 20 MAX you will have an egg, if no egg then it looks like your breeding career is going to stop here sorry. Other things to think about is what do you want to breed? You have two pretty ino’s (all yellow or all white) you want more pretty ino’s so you put them together right? Wrong this produces weak and small birds, same with two crested Budgies. A crested needs to be breed a “crest breed”. Do you want to breed pretty colors or are you trying to put size on the bird? Give it a bigger mask? Improve its head size? There are a lot of options and a lot of bad birds out there so don’t, please don’t, breed issues into birds just so you can breed birds!

 

Birds with Issues – so you have a nice budgie but he/she does (insert behavioral issue) chances are that they will pass this to the chick. If your bird feather plucks then they will most likely feather pluck the chicks who will in turn feather pluck themselves and then they will feather pluck their babies. Now I am not saying this is a 100% guarantee but really do you want to risk it? If your bird has a medical condition or a behavioral issue then talk to your avian vet and get their opinion on breeding the bird. An example of this is I have a Budgie who has in the past had issues with nose bleeding or cere bleeding. After a few rounds at the vet it was discovered to be a malnutrition issue (thanks to the pervious owner) with an altered diet she has been nose bleeding free for over a year! Before she went down to breed I got a full vet check to ensure that she would be physically ready to be a mum and so far I could not ask for a better hen, however if any of her chicks ever show signs of the same issue I will not breed from her again.

 

Budgie explosion – so you put your three pairs down to breed, go you! So now you have them all on eggs lets do the math’s, a standard clutch is around 6 eggs (this do vary a lot) if all the eggs hatch then you have 18 brand new baby budgies on your hands! What are you going to do with them? Do you have a cage large enough to house 18 budgies until they are old enough to sell? Where are you going to sell them? What is your back up plan if you can’t? Family and friends will only take so many and then what? If you sell them to a pet store you might only make $3 - $7 per bird if you sell them privately you can make between $15 - $40 depending on how tame they are. If you want to sell hand tame pets, you have to remember that you need to spend at least 20 – 30 mins per bird per day to get them really tame. What if you don’t sell them? What if you have an outbreak and you need to put them all on meds? $40 a bird can get expensive if you have to take them all to the vets. Now granted in most cases they will not all hatch but Murphy’s law states you expect only half to and they all will!

 

Women’s issues – ever seen an egg bound hen? If not google it, a short and painful way to died! Calcium, calcium, calcium and more calcium. There are so many things that can and will go wrong with your hen while breeding. If you lose a hen then what are you going to do with the chicks? Breeding is a very stressful time in a Budgies life and the hens need just a little more care. They also need to be left alone and let nature takes it course. For all the females out there if you where giving birth and every 5 mins someone came in, spread your legs had a look then walked out you would feel annoyed and upset right? Well this is what it is like for a budgie who gets disrupted off the nest all day long, leave her alone! 9 times out of 10 she knows what she is doing!

 

So after reading all of that you still want to breed right? Well I decided this and I am now $5000 poorer for deciding that before I even add the birds or the feed into it. Yes my aviary and my set up cost me around $5000. Add to that the $100 a month I spend on seed, $130 on things to add to the water ever few months, the birds, the $1000 in vet bills over the past 4 months as I ended up with some sick birds…. Just wait why did I want to breed again, should have turned the garage into a gym! Honesty you are not going to get rich by doing this, and if you join a club then there is joining fees and ring fees and showing cages, the list keeps going……..

 

 

okay then lets look at a few things you will need (this is for cabinet breeding as I don’t like colony breeding but I am not going to argue about that here)

 

The following list is partly off what I have paid or do pay for my 30odd birds (I use about 30Kg of seed every two months)

 

For breeding you need,

- 2 – 3 breeding cage, ($30 - $80)

- 2 - 3 breeding box, ($6 - $20)

- An aviary depending on how many you are going to have ($100 - $2,500)

- Secondary cages in case one or both of the parents attack the chicks, ($30 - $80)

- Feed which is of good quality, ($50 - $100 a month)

- Hulled oats (is one of the easiest grains to be turned into crop milk by the hen), ($10 a month)

- Water, (you pay for it in your water bill)

- Cuttle fish, ($5 - $20) (please note just cause you give them this does not mean they eat it and don’t need extra calcium supplements)

- Supplies to crop feed as you may need to do this, (my set cost me $200)

- A lesson with a vet on how to crop feed ($40 - $90)

- A crop milk recipe (free thanks to libby from the BBC)

- Fresh Veggies ($10 - $50 a week)

- A heat lamp (approx $75)

- A cage for the chicks once they have fledged ($30 - $200)

- Breeding aid (optional but recommended) (approx $40 I think)

- Calcium to add to the water (Cal vet recommended brand) (approx $30)

- Money for extra vet bills (I try and keep a $500 float)

- And most importantly a Hen and a Cock (trust me I have seen people try to breed with two cocks or two hens!) ($15 - $1,500 a bird)

 

 

So that is my list and my best attempt at getting you to NOT breed. If you still want to then go for it, but remember I am sure this list is not complete and others will add to it. Please breed if you want, but breed because you know what you are doing not because you want to, just cause you can does not mean that you should. Also think about what is best for your bird, please please think about that. Breeding Budgies should not be a selfish thing but a wonderful thing for you and your birds!

Edited August 21, 200816 yr by Angelic Vampyre

Budgie explosion – so you put your three pairs down to breed, go you! So now you have them all on eggs lets do the math’s, a standard clutch is around 6 eggs (this do vary a lot) if all the eggs hatch then you have 18 brand new baby budgies on your hands! What are you going to do with them? Do you have a cage large enough to house 18 budgies until they are old enough to sell? Where are you going to sell them? What is your back up plan if you can’t? Family and friends will only take so many and then what? If you sell them to a pet store you might only make $3 - $7 per bird if you sell them privately you can make between $15 - $40 depending on how tame they are. If you want to sell hand tame pets, you have to remember that you need to spend at least 20 – 30 mins per bird per day to get them really tame. What if you don’t sell them? What if you have an outbreak and you need to put them all on meds? $40 a bird can get expensive if you have to take them all to the vets. Now granted in most cases they will not all hatch but Murphy’s law states you expect only half to and they all will!

 

This is the #1 reason not to breed (ONLY my opinion) go to the shelters, pet finders, bird rescues there are SO many birds out there including budgies that are now unwanted pets because people didn't know what to expect. They didn't realize a budgie can be so messy, loud at times, extra cost to feed and vet if needed, the time needed with a bird is much different then a dog or cat (yet another species that is over filling the pounds even more then birds), that their hen would start laying eggs or more.... The first thing you have to think about is where will they end up? The pet shop is not a good choice most of them are filled with adult birds that don't get adopted and then possibly turn into rat food (it is real).

 

I shall noW get off my soap box (not meant to flare but it is real).

Edited August 21, 200816 yr by Elly

Elly I considered putt the pet food angle in there but I have been shot down for that one once before, so I understaded the over population rather then over stated it. Also in Australia not alot of shelters take birds in so you can't go to a shelter and adopt one. if you want a budgie in victoria your options are a breeder or a petstore and as this was aimed at a person in my state I did not mention shelters but it is worth a mention for those outside of Australia! thanks

There seems to be endless adoption places in the USA for birds. We dont have that here.

That is good but because this is an international forum I believe it is worth saying because it can happen anywhere and it does. Look how many people have come to this forum looking for a home for their budgie whether it be forced or don't have the time, they are forunate to have members like Dave and others that have a large avary to take them in.

 

I also believe you have a lot more aviaries where you are which gives more opporutunity for having a larger number of birds, to find an outdoor aviary at least in the Northern and some middle parts of the U.S. is rare because of our weather.

 

Australia I believe is geared more toward the budgie as the US brought it over for pets there is not much show emphasize either as there is more in the bigger birds.

 

It wasn't meant a shot down but a realistic view at least what happens here in the U.S. and we do have some U.S. members not many but, even in Canada this is a issue too not just the U.S. Doing a simple search on petfinders under budgies you will see the black and white reality.

Edited August 21, 200816 yr by Elly

That is good but because this is an international forum I believe it is worth saying because it can happen anywhere and it does. Look how many people have come to this forum looking for a home for their budgie whether it be forced or don't have the time, they are forunate to have members like Dave and others that have a large avary to take them in.

 

I also believe you have a lot more aviaries where you are which gives more opporutunity for having a larger number of birds, to find an outdoor aviary at least in the Northern and some middle parts of the U.S. is rare because of our weather.

 

Australia I believe is geared more toward the budgie as the US brought it over for pets there is not much show emphasize either as there is more in the bigger birds.

 

It wasn't meant a shot down but a realistic view at least what happens here in the U.S. and we do have some U.S. members not many but there are many. Even in Canada this is a issue too not just the U.S.

Its a supply and demand world. Where there is need rescue places will abound. We are lucky in Australia to have both space and good weather conditions for our aviaries.

Isnt this going a bit too far. Most people are responsible and it only serves to scare people that might want to get into the hobby of breeding budgies. If I had read this post before I purchased my birds two years ago it would have frightened me out of the hobby all together As if a novice will spend $1500 (If you buy the culls off a good breeder you can get bargain show quality birds for $25-50) or spend $50-100 on seed. Those figures you quote are wrong. I have approx 50 birds and spend $35 a month on seed (yes its of good quality and I buy in bulk)

 

The aim of the forum is to help people along the process of breeding birds not to discourage prospective people from breeding.

 

Breeding birds is fun and it is not hard if you listen to the advice offered by more experienced breeders. What your post should be about AV is on Animal Husbandry. If you have the correct setup and your bird management procedures are good then you will minimise all the things that can go wrong.

 

How about this,

 

1/ Make sure that you house your pets in a clean environment,

2/ Fresh water daily,

3/ Make sure your birds has plenty of seed and access to calcium,

4/ Keep an eye on your birds behaviour, a change in the way they act could mean your bird is sick,

5/ When pairing birds keep an eye on them for a while, The Hen may attack the cock, if t his happens remove the cock bird and introduce a new mate she will accept.

 

Feel free to add to this.

 

Come on guys stop assuming everyone who wants too breed has not done their homework. Like I said most people are responsible and for the small minority that dont know what they are getting themselves into, well they have us to ask for advice and we can steer them in the right direction.

Elly I completely agree with you and am glad you added your voice to the post, all the different opinions and views help make this a better post with more understanding. I wish we had more shelters for our birds, time and time again I hear of people letting their Budgie go free as they believe that the bird is a native and can survive in the wild Least in places like the US because of your colder climite in winter some people will think twice before taking this option and take their bird to a shelter.

 

Ikon - I cross posted this from another forum and it was aimed at people over there. Maybe I should not have posted it here but I did. As for the figures I stand by them. I know how much I spend on seed mix a month, I also know how much a bird costs. Yes a novice might not spend up to $1,500 on a bird but then again if they have the money they might want to. Sorry if this post upset you but it was desiged to get people to stop and think before rushing head first into breeding, if they read this and come back and say "Really it's that much work? I think I might think about this instead of doing it right now" then that is what I wanted. I am not trying to put people off breeding al together I just want them to take a step back and really think about this. For those who know the other forums (looks at the pie) then you will know why I did this. I just figured that I did the work so I might as well cross post. Sorry if it offended you.

Edited August 22, 200816 yr by Angelic Vampyre

Ikon. This is the way Angelic Vampyre sees it. Doesnt mean everyone either does it the same or spends the same kind of money. I know the on a few points I disagree but its her article and she has taken the time to put a lot of thought into it and write it up. Even if it makes one person stop and think then she has done her job. The people who should stop and think seem to be the young ones who take on breeding as a pocket money hobby. In this way, if they were to read this they may realise more goes into it than first thought. BUT there will always be those that think they can breed fantastic budgies on very little expenditure.

Like I said, I dont agree all points.... but there is some very valid points and the effort has been put in to help people based on Angelic Vampyre's experience and her knowledge.

Thanks Kaz, also which points do you disagree with? I would like to know as I am learning and as I said that it was based off research so would like to make sure I keep learning and any input I can get from other people is great.

Thanks Kaz, also which points do you disagree with? I would like to know as I am learning and as I said that it was based off research so would like to make sure I keep learning and any input I can get from other people is great.

You have done a great job on the article. Just a few minor points which would be....

Breeding age.

12 months is fine to start...and stop hens at 4 yrs due to egg production and chick raising issues. Cocks can breed as long as they produce viable fertile eggs. For most cocks thats averaging up to 6 yrs old.

I know of a show breeder who has a 12 yr old still filling eggs and quite happy to do so.

 

In your write up of costs..it looks scary and perhaps edited you could advise ways to go about it cheaper. i,e, how to find a cheaper aviary...ebay etc. 2nd hand from the paper. Maybe a link to how to build a breeder cage. etc

Ikon is right in a way. There is more of a slant to scare those off breeding in this article and less inclined to offer a solution. If you were to add in some positives and solutions re costs, how to save costs and saving for vet fees etc then it would be a balanced article.

We all know that if we sat down and added up the costs our more professional setups would run into many thousands...but the average person wont do it the same as we would and they have to be shown also there are cheaper alternatives. UNLESS of course this article is about scaring off would be breeders and not "showing them a better way" .

Hi AV,

 

I'm not offended. Just adding my opinions.

 

Thats the good thing about these forums. We all see things differently and our collected experience can help others and help each other.

Thanks Kaz, Will look at making some changes, yes I was a little light on with the breeding ages but it's one of those that I am never sure on so stayed on the safe side. As for costing I put this together giving the cheapest to the most expensive that I had heard of cost but I can see now how it could be scary to some. Will give the costings another look at and may set up the section in a better format.

 

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Av, your views are interesting