Hi again, since you were all such help with my hen/cock question, here is another one. I was scanning the pics on the Gypsy Willows Colour Mutations looking for a bird with colouring similar to "Tony". It would appear to the untrained eye (that's me!) that he seems to look alot like a diluted green. Am I correct?

 

Also, he recently finished raising a clutch with a skyblue hen (Stewie). The three chicks turned out to be two skyblue and one some form of yellow (unsure as feathers are still growing in). If he is a green variation, wouldn't all the chicks have been green? Does this therefore mean that he carries a split blue gene (unsure of correct terminology!) I have read three books on breeding colours and have only ended up with large hangovers and a tiny amount of understanding!!!! :fear

 

 

Tony is on the right - Sam is on the left

can you enlarge your picture or post another one of the front and back of him? It is too far away, thank you.

He does not look like a dilute to me. Bigger photo please with front and back shot

He does not look like a dilute to me. Bigger photo please with front and back shot

 

 

Here are a front and back photo - hope they are okay.

 

 

 

 

He is a greywing which I believe can cause a lightening of the body colour

He is a greywing which I believe can cause a lightening of the body colour

I agree with MB

there are 2 types of greywings a full body which leaves the wing markings grey but the body a bright color and then a greywing where the body is 50% washed out. Dilute and greywing have always got me confused a bit dilute is a 80% wash out which he looks more like then just a greywing which is only a 50% . I remember Rainbow had a post going about how to tell the difference, I think he is a Dilute though but I could be wrong.

He is a greywing which I believe can cause a lightening of the body colour

I agree with MB

 

 

 

So he is a green greywing? And silly me thought he was yellow!

I read the colour mutation info on greywings and am now even more confused. How the heck did I end up with 2 blue chicks and 1 yellow chick? If the mother is blue (isn't blue recessive) and the father is green which is dominant (although I think that the greywing gene is recessive), wouldn't the babies be green?

 

If the colour thing is too complicated to explain, don't worry, I'll keep re-reading the gene information and hopefully it will begin to make sense!

Your male must be carrying the blue gene A blue bird will have two blue genes, a green bird can either have two green genes or one green gene and one blue (since green is dominant you won't see any evidence of him carrying blue unless you breed him)

I noticed you posted the same time I did and hope you read the above on my thoughts.

 

dilute, greywing either one are recessive that means that both your birds are carrying this gene so this bird has 2 of these recessive genes inspite of the parents not visibly expressing the gene because they only carry 1 of the recessive genes hence making both your birds split for either dilute or greywing.

 

Blue is recessive but your Green bird is split to blue which means he does carry the recessive blue gene making him not a true Green Green but a Green split to Blue, because of this the 2 blue genes came together and created your blue bird.

 

Also because your bird is a greygreen it means that the dad who is a green must also be a graygreen (do you have bigger pics of the parents) because a blue (white based bird) when carrying the grey gene will actually be gray visually not blue. Grey is an added coloring factor and is dominant over the blue gene.

I don't understand why both the birds are carrying dilute or greywing Elly? Unless their is a thread on the chicks that I have missed... The other bird looks to be a normal green to me.

 

He is a greywing. If he was a dilute he would not have a grey tail.

 

Yellow is his base colour so because he has had much of the over colour washed out he looks nearly yellow, but he is infact very pale green.

Edited June 30, 200817 yr by melbournebudgies

I don't understand why both the birds are carrying dilute or greywing Elly? Unless their is a thread on the chicks that I have missed... The other bird looks to be a normal green to me.He is a greywing. If he was a dilute he would not have a grey tail.

 

both parents need to give 1 of each recessive genes to the chick for the chick to express the gene only have 1 of the recessive genes makes them split and not visual

 

I said or because I was expressing above that the bird may be a dilute vs a greywing either way both genes are recessive and they lay on the same allele so they have to 1 or the other but the chick needs 2 of them to express it that is why both parents need to be split for the gene.

 

I think that is what you ask right

Do you mean both parents of the greywing bird pictured or do you mean that both the above birds are carrying the greywing gene? I can't see how you would know that the normal green hen pictured above was carrying sa greywing gene unless you have greywing chicks to show for it. That's whats confusing me, I understand the gene function

ahh...MB too late here and I am getting myself confused I am answering his question about the coloring of the blue and green and went into the dilute/greywing genes too and the who knows what the rambling went on from there.....

 

Anyways here is a thread on dilute vs greywing http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....1&hl=dilute

 

I am still thinking dilute because it looks more then 50% washed out unless my eyes are deceiving me.

Edited June 30, 200817 yr by Elly

It's not the washed out you have to look at so much Elly as that is very subjective. The tail is grey not clear therefore it is a greywing, if the tail were white it would be a dilute Actually Elly going on that thread I would have said dilute too, I was basing my verdict on Ravengypsies mutations guide. Two different sets of guidelines

 

 

Jim Hutton:

 

Greywings

Greywings appear in all the normal colours, Green, Blue, Grey Green and Grey. They have a suffused body colouring and the wing markings are a pastel shade of grey on either a yellow or white background, depending whether they are yellow or white. The Rare Variety and Colour Budgerigar Society

 

Dilutes

Yellows are the Green version, Whites are the Blues. You can get Grey Yellows and Grey Whites. They should not be mixed up with Lutinos and Albinos who have red-eyes with a white iris. Yellows and Whites have black eyes with the white iris, the body colour of the Yellows range from a washed-out yellow to an apple green, the Whites range from a lightly-suffused blue to a darker blue, the wings are lightly-suffused.

 

Raven Gypsy:

 

Greywing

 

This form of dilution will dilute the body color by 50% of the normal color depth. The markings on the wings, head and mask should be grey in color. The eyes are black with a white iris ring, light violet cheek patches on a blue or light grey on a green variety. The flights should be grey with a slight tinge of the body color and the tail feathers should be grey

 

Dilute

 

These have an 80% body color dilution with light grey wing and head markings. They are washed out all over and will have clear flights and tail feathers (white or yellow) instead of the grey flight/tail feathers of a Greywing

 

 

Rainbow:

 

Greywing

With the greywing, the flight feathers are diluted at about 50% intensity from normal, and the body of the bird is diluted at the same percentage. The flight feathers will have a light edging of the face color. The tail is grey with a bluish tinge.

 

Dilute

In the dilute, dilution of color can be anywhere from 5%-95%. All the feathers on the bird will have the same level of dilution. The bird will look 'washed out' all over. It can be difficult to tell a dilute from a greywing for this reason, as the more dilution that occurs, the "greyer" the flights get. Since greywings are of 50% intensity to normal, if the bird has very light grey wings as well as a very light body color, most likely the bird is dilute and not greywing

 

 

 

Someone else needs to post so I don't have to keep adding to this one

 

I have just come home for lunch and went to check what relevant birds I might have. I have a dilute blue which is a similiar level of dilution as that one. The difference is that the flights and tail are light grey-almost clear as suggested by Ravengypsy, also Rainbow refers to them as VERY light grey as opposed to simply grey which is more in line with my bird. The tail and flights of dragons bird are quite dark grey so I would say it is a greywing not a dilute.

 

Dilute:

 

This photo actually picks up the suffusion on her rump and makes her look brighter than she is, she is a soft pastel blue in real life, more like you can see under her throat.

Edited June 30, 200817 yr by melbournebudgies

I am going by Rainbow's post yes plus what I have read before dilutes I have never read a white tail that is spangle I believe that is why I believe this one to be a dilute. Plus Anne had experience with her own birds in this area of genetics so maybe that is why I am taking her description more. Maybe others will see an also offer their opinion too .

 

This is what I see on this bird when I look at him: Dilute budgies are washed out all over. The head and wing markings are very light, and the body color is about 80% diluted (washed out). (http://www.budgieplace.com/colors.html)

 

The picture above of the bird's tail in in the dark and the flights don't look dark they do look light grey.

Edited June 30, 200817 yr by Elly

okay here is my Dilute spangle

 

On the right is the dilute Front picture

This is the back picture

 

I am sure that yours is a greywing

Just to clarify, the greywing pictures that I posted (the front and back) are of Tony, the father. The mother (Stewie) is a sky blue hen. The first picture that I posted (the small one) has a green bird in it, but is not involved in this discussion. He simply snuck into the photo, so please disregard him - sorry to have confused the situation.

 

So if I understand correctly, my greywing (Tony) carries a green gene and a recessive blue gene. The mother (Stewie) who is a sky blue must also carry a blue/green split, that is why I got 2 sky blue chicks and 1 yellow chick. :hap:

okay ... Trust me to jump all in and get confused LMAO :hap:

 

But yep sounds about right to me .......

 

Some recssive genes can be hidden for ages - only until you have a mate, with the same recessive genes ,

will they then show up in the nest

Edited June 30, 200817 yr by Neat

Thanks to everyone for their help - I learned alot - again!

Your blue bird is simply blue, a blue bird cannot be split for green