My 3rd baby has just opened it eyes but it has red eyes compared to the older 2 who have black.The father is a skyblue violet spangle and the mother is a white df spangle so genetically can they produce a albino or is there another reason it could have red eyes.i took photos but i can not get photobucket to work at the moment.

Fallow...

YES of course they can produce an albino. Albino is a recessive gene just like recessive pieds are. If both parents are split ino you WILL get an ino chick

If the eyes are cinnamon not red it could be a DF Spangle. Young DF Spangles have cinnamon eyes that go black as they develop.

Here is two red eyed chicks amongst dark eyed siblings

 

Edited June 18, 200816 yr by KAZ

Albino is not recessive it is a sex-linked gene, if the hen is an albino and the male is split to albino you will get mixed males and females but if you have an ino in the clutch it would mean that the male is carrying the ino gene and it would be a female chick, hens can not be split to ino since they have to express sex-linked genes.

Albino is not recessive it is a sex-linked gene, if the hen is an albino and the male is split to albino you will get mixed males and females but if you have an ino in the clutch it would mean that the male is carrying the ino gene and it would be a female chick, hens can not be split to ino since they have to express sex-linked genes.

Thanks Elly. I stand corrected about the gene. In my mind, its a hidden gene that pops up here and there like a surprise in a nest.

i have no idea of the parents background so i was thinking i would just get spangles so it is going to be interesting to see when they get feathers what types i end up with. the youngest hatch on sunday but his eyes look a lighter colour as well.the eyes do not look as light as the ones in Kaz's pics though.i finally got photobucket working so here are some pics of my cute little bubs.

 

 

 

Eyes look plum. You may have some DF SPangles as Daz has suggested.

I agree with Kaz there, they don't look like albino eyes to me

thanks for your help, still trying to understand genetics and the mother has black eyes so i assumed all df spangles started with black eyes. It looks like i will end up with 2 df spangles which will be nice. The 5th egg which is fertile is due to hatch today.

Albino is not recessive it is a sex-linked gene, if the hen is an albino and the male is split to albino you will get mixed males and females but if you have an ino in the clutch it would mean that the male is carrying the ino gene and it would be a female chick, hens can not be split to ino since they have to express sex-linked genes.

 

Doesn't that make it sex-linked recessive? Because if a gene can be split (ie. hidden) then it must be recessive, even if only on the male side. If it can't be split (like green) then it is dominant...though green isn't sex-linked.

Yes

Caheao ..OMG!!! Thankyou someone thinks like me .........i have confused myself so much with Genes and splits ( / ) and masking and hiddens etc that I just give up :DSpangle x spangle will give DF spangels even if 1 id DF spangelI sooo hope that one of them is a violet white wing .....*Neats Dream bird

Caheao ..OMG!!! Thankyou someone thinks like me .........i have confused myself so much with Genes and splits ( / ) and masking and hiddens etc that I just give up :DSpangle x spangle will give DF spangels even if 1 id DF spangelI sooo hope that one of them is a violet white wing .....*Neats Dream bird

 

I'm not bad with genetics (in general), I just don't know much about budgie genes! But most sex-linked genes are recessive as sex-linked dominant genes seem to be much rarer. It also gets confusing (for me) because I'm more familiar with mammal genetics in which case the sex chromosomes are "swapped" round. I think of "splits" as carriers (the common biological term), meaning they carry the gene but do not show it. So anything that is showing the dominant gene can be carrying (or split for) the recessive gene* but something that is showing the recessive gene cannot have the dominant gene. So when you're talking about splits, you're generally talking about the recessive gene (or the more recessive gene) being "carried" by the budgie even though it is showing the dominant trait.

 

Of course, then you have co-dominant genes and co-recessive genes as well just to confuse things...and there are all the different things budgies can have like spangle, opaline, shade, colour etc. And when you try and do it all at once it can be confusing but if you're "new" to budgie genetics (like me) then it might be easier to focus on one gene at a time.

 

* except for hens when sex-linked genes are involved

Edited June 18, 200816 yr by Caheao

Hey neat you will have to wait for pics of my little brown rescue girl once she gets her nice white feathers. She is a violet cinnamon dutch pied fallow spangle . The fallow has resulted in the cobalt colour basically dissappearing from under the violet so she just looks lavender purple in her pied spots. Her wings are almost clear except for a couple of pale cinnamon spangle near the wig base, other than she will be pure white

Caheao ..OMG!!! Thankyou someone thinks like me .........i have confused myself so much with Genes and splits ( / ) and masking and hiddens etc that I just give up :DSpangle x spangle will give DF spangels even if 1 id DF spangelI sooo hope that one of them is a violet white wing .....*Neats Dream bird

 

I'm not bad with genetics (in general), I just don't know much about budgie genes! But most sex-linked genes are recessive as sex-linked dominant genes seem to be much rarer. It also gets confusing (for me) because I'm more familiar with mammal genetics in which case the sex chromosomes are "swapped" round. I think of "splits" as carriers (the common biological term), meaning they carry the gene but do not show it. So anything that is showing the dominant gene can be carrying (or split for) the recessive gene* but something that is showing the recessive gene cannot have the dominant gene. So when you're talking about splits, you're generally talking about the recessive gene (or the more recessive gene) being "carried" by the budgie even though it is showing the dominant trait.

 

Of course, then you have co-dominant genes and co-recessive genes as well just to confuse things...and there are all the different things budgies can have like spangle, opaline, shade, colour etc. And when you try and do it all at once it can be confusing but if you're "new" to budgie genetics (like me) then it might be easier to focus on one gene at a time.

 

* except for hens when sex-linked genes are involved

 

I studied and tried and tried until i got sooo confused that I had a brain melt down ( so yeah now i have no brain lol )

the worse is the xx and xy are different to mammals then birds .... But i will give your advice a go and work on one gene at a time the sexlink ones are the worst for me esp the TCB and Fallows as some are sexlinked and some aren't English Fallow and German Fallow and then the Clearbody and Easley clearbody (sp) tsk tsk too many hahahah, Bit that is what BBC is for

 

MB - Can't wait to see, I've been waiting since you posted her ages ago ... * hurry up and molt already

I studied and tried and tried until i got sooo confused that I had a brain melt down ( so yeah now i have no brain lol )

the worse is the xx and xy are different to mammals then birds .... But i will give your advice a go and work on one gene at a time the sexlink ones are the worst for me esp the TCB and Fallows as some are sexlinked and some aren't English Fallow and German Fallow and then the Clearbody and Easley clearbody (sp) tsk tsk too many hahahah, Bit that is what BBC is for

 

MB - Can't wait to see, I've been waiting since you posted her ages ago ... * hurry up and molt already

 

Well, for birds: hens are ZW and cocks are ZZ

Instead of (for mammals): males XY and females XX

But it still works the same, just males and females are swapped around. So for birds, females are more likely to show a Z-linked (sex-linked) recessive gene and for mammals, males are more likely to show a X-linked (sex-linked) recessive gene. I specify Z-linked/X-linked because there are actually Y-linked and W-linked genes just to get more confusing!

 

If you can work out the genes/possibly genes for MB's rescue then you should be fine!

 

For anyone interested: Wikipedia on the ZW sex-determination system

Edited June 18, 200816 yr by Caheao

She's getting there slowly, white spots at the moment

Mb- she is more than likely a Banded Aust Dominant pied if she has a straight band as there arent alot of Dutch pieds around. Most Aust pieds you see are variegated Aust pied, much more common

Do you have any photos? What exactly is the difference between a banded Australian and a dutch? I only ask because I have a number of birds in my aviary which I thought were dutch pieds but I'm happy to be educated

Albino is not recessive it is a sex-linked gene, if the hen is an albino and the male is split to albino you will get mixed males and females but if you have an ino in the clutch it would mean that the male is carrying the ino gene and it would be a female chick, hens can not be split to ino since they have to express sex-linked genes.

 

Doesn't that make it sex-linked recessive? Because if a gene can be split (ie. hidden) then it must be recessive, even if only on the male side. If it can't be split (like green) then it is dominant...though green isn't sex-linked.

 

Yes in a way but it wasn't explained in the prior post about how hen's can not hide a sex-linked gene but they can hide a non linked sex-linked gene which needs to be explained because there are different outcomes between a sex-linked vs a non-sex linked

Albino is not recessive it is a sex-linked gene, if the hen is an albino and the male is split to albino you will get mixed males and females but if you have an ino in the clutch it would mean that the male is carrying the ino gene and it would be a female chick, hens can not be split to ino since they have to express sex-linked genes.

 

Doesn't that make it sex-linked recessive? Because if a gene can be split (ie. hidden) then it must be recessive, even if only on the male side. If it can't be split (like green) then it is dominant...though green isn't sex-linked.

 

Yes in a way but it wasn't explained in the prior post about how hen's can not hide a sex-linked gene but they can hide a non linked sex-linked gene which needs to be explained because there are different outcomes between a sex-linked vs a non-sex linked

 

Of yeah, of course: autosomal (non-sex linked) vs sex-linked is very different. Autosomal has the same chances for both males and females, its only in sex-linked genes where there is a difference. Most sex-linked conditions are recessive, even for the hens just that they can't have the dominant gene and the recessive gene at the same time:

 

ie. non-albinoism is dominant to albinoism, so even if a hen has the albino gene and shows it because hens only have one Z chromosome, the albino gene is still recessive to the dominant non-albinoism gene.

 

So if you cross a "normal" (non-albino hen) with a cock who is spilt for albino:

 

Where Zn is non-albino and Za is albino

 

Hen: Zn W Cock: Zn Za

 

Possible offpring are:

 

Zn Zn - cock normal

Zn Za - cock split albino

Zn W - hen normal

Za W - hen albino

 

But for an autosomal (non-sex linked condition):

 

Maybe for colouring green vs blue (not worrying about shade or anything else)

 

Genes:

 

C - green colouring (large "C" for dominant)

c - blue colouring (small "c" for recessive)

 

Hen - C c

Cock - C c

 

(ie. both parents appear green but are split for blue)

 

Possible offspring:

 

25% chance C C - green

50% chance C c - green split for blue male or female

25% chance c c - blue! no "green" gene at all

 

Which is irrespective of sex, there could be any amount of hens or cocks for any of the above.

Edited June 18, 200816 yr by Caheao

I like to put it in simple terms because honestly most people don't get all the genetic wording and it just confuses them especially if they haven't had a basic genetic course

I like to put it in simple terms because honestly most people don't get all the genetic wording and it just confuses them especially if they haven't had a basic genetic course

 

Gosh...I learnt all that in year 10 science! (and possibly a bit in year 12 biology) But I suppose most people don't listen to it as much as I did at that age because I found it really interesting.

 

More-or-less, sex-linked conditions are dependant on sex and non-sex-linked conditions are not dependant on sex if that simplifies things a little.

Edited June 18, 200816 yr by Caheao