TB what has changed since the spangle was first developed? I'm a sucker for spangles and now that I have my big show type df spangle Ozzie I'm looking forward to putting him with my big hen and seeing what I get. What's the best way to get the most out of a spangle bird, my first clutch will be a test clutch but then I'll work out who to put him with.

 

 

 

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Edited June 14, 200816 yr by KAZ

 

 

TOPIC JUST FOR TB .......

 

Should of PM'ed lol

 

* feels left out ....

I'm glad you started this in a new topic, as I could write pages.The short answer is markings. The contrast in wing markings on many spangles is gone. They all seem to have wishy-washy markings these days and no spot. As someone who remembers the spangles of the late 80' and 90's it was one of the first things I noticed when I attended my first show back.

That and flecking.

 

In the 80's the biggest topic of concern was fertility in the budgies, which was suffering on a global scale. Budgies weren't breeding and numbers were low. Many put this to the fact that the budgie had grown so fast into a very large double buffed some long flighted bird, that was the reason they were having round after round of clear eggs. Who knows, maybe?

The spangle even at this stage had a reputation for it's great fertility so many breeders put spangles to there birds whatever variety. And fertility improved. Spangles also produced large birds that weren't buff so that too was a huge advantage.

I feel because of this indiscriminate breeding is what has damaged the spangle.

 

 

 

Birds like this which on the net is described as a rainbow, which it's not!!

 

 

 

 

This one. Not a bad bird, has spot, but look at the wing marking's. A lot of spangles out of normals have body colour through there wings, Why? It shouldn't be there! It should be yellow with black spangle pattern like this baby of mine. Same bird, grey green spangle.

And look at the washed out body colour!

 

 

 

So what's going on??

Who's to blame for this mess?

I suppose everyone.

I only breed normals to spangle. Normals that carry good body colour and dark black wing and body markings. I feel even normals that are split opaline or cinnamon or any other variety will effect the markings on the spangle young.

 

It's time for a cuppa!!

 

Next:- What I think of the Melanstic spangle! The next disaster!!

Edited June 14, 200816 yr by throwback

Can't argue with you there TB. It's been the pairing to opalines and badly marked normals that have resulted in the poor marking. The pairing to opaline to help increase the sizing has had it's draw back.

 

I have been talking with Jeff Attwood regarding the pairings and he suggests the old ruling of Spangle to Normal to better the markings isn't correct and we should be looking at Spangle to Spangle. Yes there will be DF Spangles, but whats wrong with that??. DF Spangles back to Normals will give good wing markings and good spots.... Bullseye spots .... not the full ones that are now being seen.

KNow nothing about any of that but the second birds is pretty.

My Lilly is a spangle with true markings (but no spots) - I have plans to breed this girl to keep the markings as pure as possible, perhaps even improve them

 

So short of a straight normal (which is about the only thing I don't have) what is the next best thing to breed my df spangle dom pied to? I have two opaline girls which have great throat spots, but they are opaline, is that necessarily bad?, ..I do have a spangle hen with nice black markings but no throat spots but she is pet type whereas the df spangle cock is show type.

So short of a straight normal (which is about the only thing I don't have) what is the next best thing to breed my df spangle dom pied to? I have two opaline girls which have great throat spots, but they are opaline, is that necessarily bad?, ..I do have a spangle hen with nice black markings but no throat spots but she is pet type whereas the df spangle cock is show type.

 

 

If I don't have a bird to pair I usually wait till I obtain one suitable. But if that's not a option one of the opaline hens will do. Not an ideal pairing as Daz said the opaline has many marking faults that have contributed to the spangle's plight.

 

But what another couple more, at least being D/F you will get all S/F spangles!!

 

I'd like to pair more of these

 

Normal green to normal green.

Gone are the speciality studs of the past that specialised in Normals, or studs that had mainly opalines or dom pieds or spangles.

A lot of people these days seem to have a bit of everything.

So I have decided that I'm going to focus on green normals.

This is not to say that there won't be other varieties in the flight, but I want more than half to be normal green.

Last time I was into dominate pieds, but they don't seem to excite me the way they used to.

I have actually never liked spangles, or any of the recessive budgies, I never had the patience for breeding splits for them. Although I have a few lacewings paired up for splits at the moment.

Edited June 14, 200816 yr by throwback

My spangle pairings at the moment are

1. Yellowface Grey cock to DF yellow hen (cock has very good features that I want to put to the spangles)

 

2. Spangle light green cock to Opaline light green hen (Two good lines that I am trying to bring togeather, the cock is split opaline so I will get Opaline hens and normal hens. Hopefully the Normals will through good spangles)

 

3. Spangle light green cock to Spangle Opaline Grey green hen (Same as 2. The hen of 3 is the sister to cock of 2. The Cock of 3. is brother to hen of 2.)

 

4. Spangle Sky cock to Spangle Opaline Grey Green Hen. (cock is a Church and O'Rielly, the hen just won best old spangle of show. Her brother was Champion Young bird of show last year. The hen is sister to hen of 3)

 

5. Light green cock to Spangle light green Hen. (Uncle to niece)

 

6. Spangle Opaline grey green cock to Dominant Pied light green hen. (Cousins, cock is son to hen of 4.)

 

7. Spangle Grey cock to Spangle Sky hen. (1/2 Brother to 1/2 sister)

 

As you can see I have some interesting combinations. Each has a reason. Wether to bring to lines to geather, add features or to line breed.

 

I also have pairings of Recessive Pied to Split, Recessive Pied to Recessive Pied and Recessive Pied to Dark Eyed Clear.

I also have Dominate pied to Opaline, Dominat pied to Dominant pied and Dominant pied to Normal.

Edited June 14, 200816 yr by Daz

Some great sounding pairs there Daz. I hope they all come off for you!!

Church and O'Rielly used to be Church and Reid years ago.

I had some great birds from them that bred very well.

 

My current line up

1) Grey green cock to a cinn opaline hen. (Both Gazzard) They have four young.

 

2) Grey cock to a Y/F T2 blue opaline spangle hen. ( New pair that went in last week ) The hen is also creast bred?? What a combo! This is to please my Daughter that wants to see more like the hen.

 

3) Grey green Normal to Grey green spangle, this is the pairing that has given me some great spangles. the cock is from SA and is a 03 bird!! That has filled every one of the 1st round 9 eggs.

they have 4 more young at the moment. Plus a few fosters, they are super parents!

 

4) Grey Normal cock 07 to Grey Normal hen 07. ( Both super birds with heaps of head features, cock featured in Oct-Nov 2007 Budgerigar Mag. Hen just started laying.

 

5) Cobalt cock to a Grey dom pied hen, The hen was paired to a Y/F cinn blue but didn't want anything to do with him. So after more than 3 weeks I changed the cock to the cobalt and they now have 3 eggs.

 

6) A pair that has failed! A dom pird green cock to a grey green hen. They have had two rounds of 7 or 8 eggs, but all clear! Back to the drawing board with these two!

 

7) Grey violet spangle to green spangle they have 6 eggs. The reason for the pairing I explained in this post http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....ic=12367&hl=

 

8) Grey green cock to a cinn blue opaline hen. Has produced 4 nice cinn grey greens and green opaline babies. Sitting on second round of 6 eggs due next week.

 

9) Olive violet cock to a grey green cinn hen. Both are Joe Elise birds so could throw anything!

 

10) Y/F blue cock to a cinn blue opaline hen. This is a much anticipated pairing both super birds. they have 6 eggs that look fertile, also due next week. I will be laughing if I these two fire!

 

11) Grey green dom pied cock to a cobalt hen. 6 eggs.

 

12) The next is one for Kaz!

A opaline grey cock to a white lacewing hen. No eggs yet have only been in since last week.

 

13) A cobalt cock to a normal green hen. Both balance each other.

 

14) Normal green cock to Normal green hen. A super green cock that I have been waiting to come into condition the bird that is on my avatar. The hen is a BRASEA bird with great pedigree that throws-back to some of the cocks line. A $1000 plus pair.

 

picture a bit fuzzy, I forgot to press macro on the camera. Looks like it's going to have a good mask and spot! I think it's a hen also.

Edited June 15, 200816 yr by throwback

Very good markings and mask TB. Good width over the cere. Would be good to see in a few months.

Inteeresting article in the June-July Budgerigar Australia mag.

How to breed Normal spangles with Spangle markings and spots,

By Fred Wright.

 

Extract

Quote:

Spangles brought fertility, a new mutation-an attractive mutation at that - and great enthusiasm.

Everybody believed that the Spangles had been paired to the best birds, even if they had not, so almost everyone wanted to get Spangles in their birdroom.

 

The first spangles were beautiful marked super wing markings and wonderful bullseye spots. However, those early Spangles tended to be Normal Spangles. Very quickly they were paired into Cinnamons, Opaline and even yellow Faces.

 

Cinnamon Spangles tone down the spangle markings on the wing and the spot. Opaline tended to destroy the wing markings and did nothing to highlight the bullseye spots.

So, in my view, the variety markings were lost by using Cinnamons and Opalines. In retrospect it was probably a huge mistake to pair them to anything other than Normals.

 

 

All sounds too familiar to me! Almost like an echo

Thanks TB.