May 20, 200817 yr DF stands for Double Factor, with a Spangle it's when you mate Spangle to Spangle, some young will be DF if they are Blue they will be white with an iris ring when mature & if Green series Yellow.
May 20, 200817 yr I have a DF spangle hen, which I bought thinking it was a lutino. She is pure yellow and has the iris ring - They are very pretty birds Here is a picture of her after she over indulged in the bath hehe Edited May 20, 200817 yr by **Liv**
May 20, 200817 yr I am having trouble getting my head around this term as well. Can someone explain to me what a factor is. Simply what does the term mean. For example I know a Lutino is a yellow bird with pink eyes. Thats simple. However I cannot get a grasp of the single/double factor terminology. Help an old bloke out here.
May 20, 200817 yr Liv she/he still looks ino... Ino's can have iris rings, but their eyes are red instead of black. That one seems quite pink around the eye and on the feet still. Double factor is used to explain what happens to a bird when 2 of the same gene alter the appearance. When crossing some genes with another of the same gene double factors can be created. These double factors change the look of the gene. E.g. DF dominant pieds, spangle and Yf1 all change when the gene is doubled. For every other kind of gene having two of them mix together changes nothing.
May 20, 200817 yr Sorry Libby but I still don't understand it. Back in the 60's when I went to school genes were something you wore. or was that jeans. See I don't know the difference. Is a factor a dominant gene? If so a double factor bird has two dominant genes therefore all it's offspring will not be split. If that is correct then a single factor bird has only one dominant gene and it's offspring can be split to another variety but still carry the one dominant gene. I've got a headache.
May 20, 200817 yr okay lets try it this way.... You have three kinds of "GENES" ( non denim) They are: Dominant (green, dominant pied, yellowface, spangle) Recessive ( blue, recessive pied, greywing, fallow) & sex linked ( cinnamon, opaline, ino, lacewing,) All of these genes have different rules which apply to them to get them to show up in a chick. However when two of the same kind of gene of either Spangle, dominant pied or Yellowface type 1 are in the same bird they change the appearance. A single factor spangle bird will have reverse markings on the wings and the usual body colouring and base coloured face (light edged with dark, as opposed to dark edged with light that you see in a normal bird) However, when two spangle genes combine together you get a Df spangle. This bird has no wing markings and no body colouring. The whole bird is base coloured with black eyes and has iris rings. (e.g. white, yellow or in the case of a yf bird a lighter yellow) Other examples of DF birds are when two dominant pied genes are together. These birds have very minimal markings and are hard to tell apart from a recessive pied. The main give away unless used to spotting them is that they have iris rings and cocks can still get Cere colouring. The YF1 gene when doubled gives you a White-faced bird. Although You can't necessarily tell it's there, when bred it gives 100% yf offspring. This only works with type 1 though.... So does that help? Basically it describes a bird who has two gene of either dom pied, spangle or yf1. Df only changes these genes... mating greywing to greywing or green to green doesn't mean they're df's
May 20, 200817 yr Double Factor means that instead of getting 1 spangle or pied 'gene' from one parent it gets one from each, so spangle x spangle mating will give you normal looking spangles (single factor or 1 'dose') but it will also give you double factor (2 doses) of spangle which is what makes the markings alter (or give none) Dominant Pied is the same Pied x Pied 1 'dose' from one parent will give you normal looking pieds (single factor)2 'doses' (1 from each parent) give the minimal markings of a 'double factor' pied. Edited May 20, 200817 yr by the pie
May 20, 200817 yr That confuses me more then. What would be the outcome of a double factor dom pied cock and a double factor spangle hen.
May 21, 200817 yr Start again. The word factor is and arbitrary term, so just remove it for a moment. Double factor spangle = double spangle = two spangle genes in a bird Single factor spangle = spangle = one spangle gene in a bird The term "factor" applies to dominant genes inherited on autosomal chromosomes. Autosomal chromosomes are all the other chromosomes except the sex-chromosomes. The sex-chromosomes are the ones that determine the bird's gender. A bird inherits one of each of the chromosomes from each parent to make the dual pairs of chromosomes. In humans there are 23 pairs of chromosomes, making a total of 46 chromosomes in a body cell. The sperm and ova reproductive cells contain 23 individual chromosomes each (half of the pair), so when they unite, the fertilized egg of sperm+ova will have the full compliment of 46 chromosomes, half from dad, half from mum. Of these 23 pairs of chromosomes, 22 pairs are autosomal, and 1 pair are the sex-chromosomes that determine gender. Please note when talking about sex-chromosomes in humans, males are XY and females are XX, in budgies it is opposite, females are XY (or ZW) and males are XX (or ZZ). The ZW naming system is used in budgie genetics to reduce this confusion. W for woman budgie is an easy way to remember it. To explain why the term single and double factor is not used for the sex-linked genes carried on the sex chromosomes - here is an example using the sex-linked recessive gene ino: You can not have a double factor ino hen because she only has one sex-chromosome that carries the ino gene. The ino gene is carried on the X (or Z) chromosome. She either has ino on her X (or Z) chromosome or doesn't. The counterpart sex-chromosome that determines femaleness Y (or W) does not carry the ino gene. You can't call her a single factor ino, because that would be silly, she is just simply called an ino hen. Calling an ino cock a double factor ino would be silly, because cocks can only be ino if they have ino present on both sex-chromosomes XX (or ZZ), so all double factor ino cocks are just simply called ino cocks. If they only have one copy of the ino gene and, for argument's sake, are single factor ino cocks, then they appear normal because the ino gene is hidden, so these cocks are called split ino. When we are talking about the autosomal chromosomes it is a bit different. If a gene is dominant then it will show visibly in the bird. If it is recessive it will be hidden unless there are two copies of the recessive gene (one on each of a pair of autosomal chromosomes). When talking about recessive gene such as clearwing, the use of the term "factor" is silly, because it is either a clearwing (has two clearwing genes) or it is "split" clearwing (appears normal but carries a clearwing gene on only one of the pair of autosomal chromosomes). You wouldn't call it a single factor clearwing, it is called split for clearwing. The term "factor" applies to genes such as spangle, dominant pied, violet and dark factor genes, where the gene is dominant and inherited on autosomal chromosomes, and where the bird has a different appearance when the gene is present as one copy on only one of the pair of autosomal chromosomes (single "factor") compared to two copies, where the gene is present on both of the pair of autosomal chromosomes (double "factor"). http://www.birdhobbyist.com/parrotcolour/questions.html Edited May 21, 200817 yr by *libby* Double posted a paragraph.
May 21, 200817 yr Good summary DrNat…& Derek is stunned, sitting there too afraid to ask any more questions… :hap:
May 22, 200817 yr Start again. The word factor is and arbitrary term, so just remove it for a moment.Double factor spangle = double spangle = two spangle genes in a bird Single factor spangle = spangle = one spangle gene in a bird The term "factor" applies to dominant genes inherited on autosomal chromosomes. Autosomal chromosomes are all the other chromosomes except the sex-chromosomes. The sex-chromosomes are the ones that determine the bird's gender. A bird inherits one of each of the chromosomes from each parent to make the dual pairs of chromosomes. In humans there are 23 pairs of chromosomes, making a total of 46 chromosomes in a body cell. The sperm and ova reproductive cells contain 23 individual chromosomes each (half of the pair), so when they unite, the fertilized egg of sperm+ova will have the full compliment of 46 chromosomes, half from dad, half from mum. Of these 23 pairs of chromosomes, 22 pairs are autosomal, and 1 pair are the sex-chromosomes that determine gender. Please note when talking about sex-chromosomes in humans, males are XY and females are XX, in budgies it is opposite, females are XY (or ZW) and males are XX (or ZZ). The ZW naming system is used in budgie genetics to reduce this confusion. W for woman budgie is an easy way to remember it. To explain why the term single and double factor is not used for the sex-linked genes carried on the sex chromosomes - here is an example using the sex-linked recessive gene ino: You can not have a double factor ino hen because she only has one sex-chromosome that carries the ino gene. The ino gene is carried on the X (or Z) chromosome. She either has ino on her X (or Z) chromosome or doesn't. The counterpart sex-chromosome that determines femaleness Y (or W) does not carry the ino gene. You can't call her a single factor ino, because that would be silly, she is just simply called an ino hen. Calling an ino cock a double factor ino would be silly, because cocks can only be ino if they have ino present on both sex-chromosomes XX (or ZZ), so all double factor ino cocks are just simply called ino cocks. If they only have one copy of the ino gene and, for argument's sake, are single factor ino cocks, then they appear normal because the ino gene is hidden, so these cocks are called split ino. When we are talking about the autosomal chromosomes it is a bit different. If a gene is dominant then it will show visibly in the bird. If it is recessive it will be hidden unless there are two copies of the recessive gene (one on each of a pair of autosomal chromosomes). When talking about recessive gene such as clearwing, the use of the term "factor" is silly, because it is either a clearwing (has two clearwing genes) or it is "split" clearwing (appears normal but carries a clearwing gene on only one of the pair of autosomal chromosomes). You wouldn't call it a single factor clearwing, it is called split for clearwing. The term "factor" applies to genes such as spangle, dominant pied, violet and dark factor genes, where the gene is dominant and inherited on autosomal chromosomes, and where the bird has a different appearance when the gene is present as one copy on only one of the pair of autosomal chromosomes (single "factor") compared to two copies, where the gene is present on both of the pair of autosomal chromosomes (double "factor"). http://www.birdhobbyist.com/parrotcolour/questions.html Thank you, thank you, thank you. That makes it easier to understand Good summary DrNat…& Derek is stunned, sitting there too afraid to ask any more questions… :hap: In the past 24 hours I have had to move my Camp Oven Cooking Forum to a new host server so haven't had a chance to do to much on here. Just read it in fact
May 23, 200817 yr Liv she/he still looks ino...Ino's can have iris rings, but their eyes are red instead of black. That one seems quite pink around the eye and on the feet still. Sorry it took me a while to get back here - She is a (99) DF Spangle with black eyes and iris ring - she is out of condition
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now