I have a pair on eggs at the moment. They are a skyblue opaline spangle COCK and a cobalt spangle HEN. Both carry violet.

 

So does that mean chicks should be:

 

hens

all opaline spangles

 

cocks

all standard spangles split for opaline

 

how does violet come into this?

Edited April 30, 200817 yr by melbournebudgies

if one is a sky and one is cobalt... why are you saying violet? are they a sky violet and a cobalt violet (visual violet)?

 

 

so assuming that the cock is actually an opaline spangle sky violet (single factor), and the hen is a spangle violet (aka cobalt + violet single factor):

 

 

dark factor color for both genders: /dominant inheritance

 

50% sky (0 dark factors)

50% cobalt (1 dark factor)

 

violet factor for both genders: /dominant inheritance

 

50% single factor violet

25% normal (non-violet)

25% double factor violet

 

spangle for both genders: /dominant inheritance

 

50% single factor spangle

25% normal (non-spangle)

25% double factor spangle

 

opaline by gender: /sex-linked inheritance

 

50% female opaline

50% male normal split to opaline

 

 

so add those mutation percentages together and you get the following genetic possibilities (which don't include any possible hidden factors your birds may be carrying in hidden form):

 

...note that the percentages are purely statistical percentages of possibility based on the above genetic percentages...

 

 

1.5625% - sky normal /opaline cock

1.5625% - sky normal opaline hen

3.125% - sky SF spangle /opaline cock

3.125% - sky SF spangle opaline hen

1.5625% - sky DF spangle /opaline cock

1.5625% - sky DF spangle opaline hen

 

3.125% - sky SF violet normal /opaline cock

3.125% - sky SF violet normal opaline hen

6.25% - sky SF violet SF spangle /opaline cock

6.25% - sky SF violet SF spangle opaline hen

3.125% - sky SF violet DF spangle /opaline cock

3.125% - sky SF violet DF spangle opaline hen

 

1.5625% - sky DF violet normal /opaline cock

1.5625% - sky DF violet normal opaline hen

3.125% - sky DF violet SF spangle /opaline cock

3.125% - sky DF violet SF spangle opaline hen

1.5625% - sky DF violet DF spangle /opaline cock

1.5625% - sky DF violet DF spangle opaline hen

 

1.5625% - cobalt normal /opaline cock

1.5625% - cobalt normal opaline hen

3.125% - cobalt SF spangle /opaline cock

3.125% - cobalt SF spangle opaline hen

1.5625% - cobalt DF spangle /opaline cock

1.5625% - cobalt DF spangle opaline hen

 

3.125% - cobalt SF violet normal /opaline cock

3.125% - cobalt SF violet normal opaline hen

6.25% - cobalt SF violet SF spangle /opaline cock

6.25% - cobalt SF violet SF spangle opaline hen

3.125% - cobalt SF violet DF spangle /opaline cock

3.125% - cobalt SF violet DF spangle opaline hen

 

1.5625% - cobalt DF violet normal /opaline cock

1.5625% - cobalt DF violet normal opaline hen

3.125% - cobalt DF violet SF spangle /opaline cock

3.125% - cobalt DF violet SF spangle opaline hen

1.5625% - cobalt DF violet DF spangle /opaline cock

1.5625% - cobalt DF violet DF spangle opaline hen

 

 

 

....all of which could be changed if there are hidden factors that were not known, or if one of the birds is a double factor violet instead of single factor violet... or that they are not in fact both carrying violet.

Edited April 30, 200817 yr by Ravengypsy

Read the pinned article on understanding the violet gene - in particular read the website listings I posted at the bottom of that pinned article.

I have a pair on eggs at the moment. They are a skyblue opaline spangle COCK and a cobalt spangle HEN. Both carry violet.

 

So does that mean chicks should be:

 

hens

all opaline spangles

 

cocks

all standard spangles split for opaline

 

how does violet come into this?

 

you are correct but know that you only have a chance of 25% double factor spangle too in the mix

violet is an added factor and it can be a double factor gene or a single factor if both are carrying the single factor you have a 50% chance of violets but if they are 1 is a double violet you have higher % & if they are both df then it is 100% violet factor on the chicks. I am not into all those % too confusing, so I hope this helps too.

Wow Raven, that's incredible. This is dad, I'll have to take a photo of mum, she was sitting when I took my flock photos a few weeks ago. Not a great photo, he wouldn't sit still !

 

yep you're right he's a sky violet but looks like a YF2 in the photo or is that just bad lighting? not the best photo so doesn't look like an opaline spangle markings in it.. but I know sometimes photos can be off... if I'd just seen this photo I'd have said clearwing instead.. and no body color showing in the V-neck or wings that I can see which would be the opaline... but like I said could be just the bad photo.

Bad lighting and the little bugga wouldn't sit still He is definately a lovely snowy white, no yellowface there. He is definately a opaline spangle, he has lovely pale blue spangles on his wings. I'll see if I can find a back or wng photo in my files.......nope, no wing shot but here is a photo of his identical brother's wing. There markings are pretty much the same.http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x259/er...ax/DSC00515.jpg

aaah okay that's better yes I thought it was just bad photo... you're right of course it's a opaline spangle violet sky :hap:

 

 

I even made an article based on your example on my website ... it was a good genetics example lesson... although complex for the beginner.

Edited May 2, 200817 yr by Ravengypsy

I have a pair on eggs at the moment. They are a skyblue opaline spangle COCK and a cobalt spangle HEN. Both carry violet.

 

So does that mean chicks should be:

 

hens

all opaline spangles

 

cocks

all standard spangles split for opaline

 

how does violet come into this?

 

you are correct but know that you only have a chance of 25% double factor spangle too in the mix

violet is an added factor and it can be a double factor gene or a single factor if both are carrying the single factor you have a 50% chance of violets but if they are 1 is a double violet you have higher % & if they are both df then it is 100% violet factor on the chicks. I am not into all those % too confusing, so I hope this helps too.

 

 

yep you're right he's a sky violet but looks like a YF2 in the photo or is that just bad lighting? not the best photo so doesn't look like an opaline spangle markings in it.. but I know sometimes photos can be off... if I'd just seen this photo I'd have said clearwing instead.. and no body color showing in the V-neck or wings that I can see which would be the opaline... but like I said could be just the bad photo.

 

I don't think he is opaline, he looks just like creek ( one of my birds) Creek is split to opaline yours could be too.

 

Also can I just say that with an opaline spangle cock and a spangle hen you will not get Split to opaline cocks....

 

If in fact he is opaline then all hens will be opaline.. If he is normal then none will be opaline but if he is split to opaline then you can get both some opaline and some not.

 

A spangle hen will not give you split to opaline cocks, she needs to be opaline to get the split cocks.. Hope this has helped..:hap:

 

This is one of my spangles split to opaline..

And this is creek his brother they are both split to opalie..

Edited May 2, 200817 yr by Lady

I new that about the sex linked opaline, must have been having a moment there

 

I'm not harrassing the mum to take photos but she is visually a violet bird so I assume that makes her DF and the cock has only a little around the neck so SF? If that's right I guess a reasonably high percentage of violet chicks.

 

According to the research I did the opaline gene in a spangle is what causes the spangles to come through as the body colour rather than as black/brown. If that is the case the blue spangles suggest that he is opaline. In my aviary this is supported by the fact that most of these sort of birds are females.

I am not sure how you tell df and sf that is not how I ever heard it in the violet gene, did you read the PINNED article did it say anything about that, this is the first time I have heard it? I would assume the violet gene would be much deeper in a DF and a SF not as deep but I think the violet around the neck is a helpful indicator that they are carrying the gene if they whole body is not a violet such as my Merlin.

 

Opalines to me remind me of bald eagles if it is an opaline spangle you should be able to see the opaline too.

I agree with Lady & others, your cock bird isn't an Opaline Spangle; if it were an Opaline you would have Blue in the triangle area between the wing butts. I have quite a few Spangles like that, it's a Normal Spangle, I think often the Spangle when the wing pattern isn't that definite [black] turns Blue, but as someone also suggested the fact it's quite possible, that maybe it's Split for Opaline.

When you get some young it will confirm the fact…if it is Opaline all it's daughters will be Opaline, if only split only a few will be, & if only a Normal none will be Opaline.

 

 

 

 

.

Edited May 2, 200817 yr by Norm

This is where I was reading about opaline spangles, maybe I've just read it wrongly though

 

http://www.budgieplace.com/c_spangle.html

This is where I was reading about opaline spangles, maybe I've just read it wrongly though

 

http://www.budgieplace.com/c_spangle.html

 

With birds there’s a lot of difference between different ones, some aren’t exactly like the perfect bird, I just think that yours are more like the top two on that site that you are showing, granted yours have some body colour through their wings, but if you look at the bottom two the Opaline Spangles you will notice that they have more of the body colour that carries up through the wings & into the triangle above the wing butts, whereas yours has some of the White of the wing carried through this area, more like the Normal.

I have a pair on eggs at the moment. They are a skyblue opaline spangle COCK and a cobalt spangle HEN. Both carry violet.

 

So does that mean chicks should be:

 

hens

all opaline spangles

 

cocks

all standard spangles split for opaline

 

how does violet come into this?

 

Leaving this to the experts - we all lknow now I have no idea : P

This is where I was reading about opaline spangles, maybe I've just read it wrongly though

 

http://www.budgieplace.com/c_spangle.html

 

I use that website myself, I notice though that the information about figuring out genetics has not been working, I am not sure how accurate that part is I would make sure I find it in other informational sites too...not saying it is not accurate but I agree with Norm on the fact that the V pattern and the reverse stripes on the head is what makes the opaline and opaline.

I've used that site in the past but after doing some in depth research found some discrepencies on that site that are not accurate or simply missing.

 

Elly is correct... if they have the V pattern and the body color bleeds into the wings, it's an opaline.

I new that about the sex linked opaline, must have been having a moment there

 

I'm not harrassing the mum to take photos but she is visually a violet bird so I assume that makes her DF and the cock has only a little around the neck so SF? If that's right I guess a reasonably high percentage of violet chicks.

 

According to the research I did the opaline gene in a spangle is what causes the spangles to come through as the body colour rather than as black/brown. If that is the case the blue spangles suggest that he is opaline. In my aviary this is supported by the fact that most of these sort of birds are females.

 

 

How did the eggs go? Did you get any bubs and if so how are they and how did they turn out? Good luck..

 

Just one Question "If that is the case the blue spangles suggest that he is opaline." Are you saying that my sky spangle is opaline?

I am saying I don't know

 

We had two eggs that hatched. They didn't help though because we needed to get a female to see if she got the opaline and both the chicks are cocks, always the way I am going to let them go for a second clutch so we'll see if they have a hen next time.