A couple of weeks ago I bought 2 baby budgies

 

http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....mp;#entry221764

 

 

The breeder just rang me to say that she had some more ready to sell and I can see them tomorrow.

My question is if I get a couple more can I put them in the same quarantine cage with the 2 I already bought from her or will I have to put them in a separate quarantine cage?

From the same breeder I would put them in the same cage.

I agree. they will be fine as long as the breeder has not introduced any new birds to the flock without quarantine in the last few weeks.

I agree, especially with Liv's last comment.

But keep in mind that quarantine should then really run 4 weeks from tomorrow for all of them, including the ones that you already have

I am going to go against it all and say that your other 2 are almost completely out of quarantine and why risk it? I would keep them separate and start their quarantine and let the other 2 finish theirs and you can intro them to the flock? Even though it is from the same breeder there could have been new members to the flock, the newer birds are more under stress then the 2 you have now etc...(blah blah right Elly ) anyways those are my thoughts. But if you do put them together then the first 2 will have to share that 4 week quarantine with the new ones so 6 wkes for them which is not a bad thing.

I do sometimes question the effectiveness of quarantining!

Birds can hide disease for a long time, so to quarantine them for 4 weeks, 6 weeks, 8 weeks is really only going to bring out the really obvious birds, that looked suspect from the start.

 

Some breeders, if ready put the birds straight in to breed. Not with there own birds, but pair the quarantine birds together. Only by putting them under a bit of stress will you see if the bird is of good health or not.

 

This may not be a suitable to all situations. Show breeders when purchasing a pair from a top breeder may want to try to produce more budgies of similar quality. So pairing the two together would be ideal. It does seem a waste of time having birds sitting around, but again the birds must be in breeding condition and must be suitable partners.

I get what you are saying throwback, but I think its better to be safe than sorry. I do agree that some birds can mask it well but to put them straight into breeding, a stressful situation... that would make them worse and may infact lead to them dieing...

 

What is quarantine for... is it to find out that your bird that you just bought is deseased, or, to prevent a bird with disease to enter your flock? I think a good quarantine would involve treatments for common diseases so you are preventing it from getting to your birds, not finding out if the new birds have it...

When you read information about quarantine from avian vets they actually say 90 days (3 months) vs what we advise 4 weeks (1 month) which is very interesting. Kaz is a good person to talk about this too because she herself got very sick from a sick bird that was purchased from a top breeder she can certainly lay down why it is very important. Nothing is ever fool proof but if a few extra precautions can help in the long run why not. What is 4 weeks to a dead bird or the birds life expectency of 6 plus years....we are so impatient.

I am going to go against it all and say that your other 2 are almost completely out of quarantine and why risk it? I would keep them separate and start their quarantine and let the other 2 finish theirs and you can intro them to the flock? Even though it is from the same breeder there could have been new members to the flock, the newer birds are more under stress then the 2 you have now etc...(blah blah right Elly ) anyways those are my thoughts. But if you do put them together then the first 2 will have to share that 4 week quarantine with the new ones so 6 wkes for them which is not a bad thing.

Very sensible Elly and you are so right

Edited April 21, 200817 yr by KAZ

I get what you are saying throwback, but I think its better to be safe than sorry. I do agree that some birds can mask it well but to put them straight into breeding, a stressful situation... that would make them worse and may infact lead to them dieing...

 

What is quarantine for... is it to find out that your bird that you just bought is deseased, or, to prevent a bird with disease to enter your flock? I think a good quarantine would involve treatments for common diseases so you are preventing it from getting to your birds, not finding out if the new birds have it...

 

 

I just sometimes think having them sit in a cage for months doesn't really prove any thing! How can you treat them if they don't present a illness, each bird may have something different. Sure you can doss them up on a broad spectrum antibiotic maybe some meds for canker. But really it's just guess work unless you get every bird's stool screened.

 

Don't get me wrong! I quarantine every bird. But I often wonder is it enough.

I'd like to hear Kaz's story

Was it a air born illness or virtual through the blood. Was it through the budgies or through some of the larger parrots that she keeps?

 

Two top breeders that I have spoken to won't release new birds in there collective until they have been through a breeding season. They stay separated until then! I am in the process of bringing some budgies over from SA. So will be still staying with the status Que as far as quarantine.

 

I would like to know what was the quarantine procedure when the Import birds were coming into Australia.

I'd like to hear Kaz's story

Was it a air born illness or virtual through the blood. Was it through the budgies or through some of the larger parrots that she keeps?

 

Two top breeders that I have spoken to won't release new birds in there collective until they have been through a breeding season. They stay separated until then! I am in the process of bringing some budgies over from SA. So will be still staying with the status Que as far as quarantine.

 

I would like to know what was the quarantine procedure when the Import birds were coming into Australia.

 

I contracted psittacosis from scarlet parrots of my husbands....he introduced to his avairy without quarantine and suddenly they were dropping like flies...a bird a day. He lost half his flock. I was handling the sick ones and treating them and had them in hospital cages. Once diagnosed as psittacosis by the vet...the vet also turned to me and asked about symptoms I was having. Told me to go straight to the doctor...I had psittacosis also.

Edited April 21, 200817 yr by KAZ

I'd like to hear Kaz's story

Was it a air born illness or virtual through the blood. Was it through the budgies or through some of the larger parrots that she keeps?

 

Two top breeders that I have spoken to won't release new birds in there collective until they have been through a breeding season. They stay separated until then! I am in the process of bringing some budgies over from SA. So will be still staying with the status Que as far as quarantine.

 

I would like to know what was the quarantine procedure when the Import birds were coming into Australia.

 

I contracted psittacosis from scarlet parrots of my husbands....he introduced to his avairy without quarantine and suddenly they were dropping like flies...a bird a day. He lost half his flock. I was handling the sick ones and treating them and had them in hospital cages. Once diagnosed as psittacosis by the vet...the vet also turned to me and asked about symptoms I was having. Told me to go straight to the doctor...I had psittacosis also.

 

WOW Kaz

In some of the literature that I remember it is a air born virus. I guess if anyone has a sick bird they really need to glove up and put on a mask! Just in case

Here is the topic on the psittacosis episode http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....;hl=psittacosis

 

 

Two club members in our budgie club are currently being treated for psittacosis.

A budgie I introduced to a breeding cage recently was a carrier of psittacosis and the cockbird went down like a ton of bricks with the psittacosis in the space of time it took to incubate the disease....the hen was fine....showed no symptoms...but was a carrier. He died. I was following the advice to put them down to breed to see if it brought out anything under stress conditions as you have also been told. It did and I lost a brilliant cockbird. Treated the hen and she is now fine....lucky I didnt lose more birds. The cock has a very sad and quick and nasty death

Here is the topic on the psittacosis episode http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....;hl=psittacosis

 

 

Two club members in our budgie club are currently being treated for psittacosis.

A budgie I introduced to a breeding cage recently was a carrier of psittacosis and the cockbird went down like a ton of bricks with the psittacosis in the space of time it took to incubate the disease....the hen was fine....showed no symptoms...but was a carrier. He died. I was following the advice to put them down to breed to see if it brought out anything under stress conditions as you have also been told. It did and I lost a brilliant cockbird. Treated the hen and she is now fine....lucky I didnt lose more birds. The cock has a very sad and quick and nasty death

 

So the hen was the introduced bird? The cock was exposed to the infected hen. The hen may have built up a resistance which the cock didn't have. You may have unwittingly sacrificed a magnificent cock bird, but maybe saved the rest of the flock.

It's sad when they are in a bad way, putting them out of there misery is something I have never been able to do. Although sometimes I wish I could!

Here is the topic on the psittacosis episode http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....;hl=psittacosis

 

 

Two club members in our budgie club are currently being treated for psittacosis.

A budgie I introduced to a breeding cage recently was a carrier of psittacosis and the cockbird went down like a ton of bricks with the psittacosis in the space of time it took to incubate the disease....the hen was fine....showed no symptoms...but was a carrier. He died. I was following the advice to put them down to breed to see if it brought out anything under stress conditions as you have also been told. It did and I lost a brilliant cockbird. Treated the hen and she is now fine....lucky I didnt lose more birds. The cock has a very sad and quick and nasty death

 

So the hen was the introduced bird? The cock was exposed to the infected hen. The hen may have built up a resistance which the cock didn't have. You may have unwittingly sacrificed a magnificent cock bird, but maybe saved the rest of the flock.

It's sad when they are in a bad way, putting them out of there misery is something I have never been able to do. Although sometimes I wish I could!

Both Hen and cock were from the same breeder.

Thank you all for your input on this subject.

 

 

I am going to go against it all and say that your other 2 are almost completely out of quarantine and why risk it? I would keep them separate and start their quarantine and let the other 2 finish theirs and you can intro them to the flock? Even though it is from the same breeder there could have been new members to the flock, the newer birds are more under stress then the 2 you have now etc...(blah blah right Elly ) anyways those are my thoughts. But if you do put them together then the first 2 will have to share that 4 week quarantine with the new ones so 6 wkes for them which is not a bad thing.

 

Thanks Elly, I did weigh up the pros and cons but as the budgies are only 6-7 weeks old same the 2 I already got from the breeder I don't put them in the big aviary until they are 12-14 weeks anyway so the extra 2 weeks wouldn't be a problem.

The breeder hasn't bought any new birds for her flock for over 3 years, she just breeds them and sells them.

 

I thought I would be smart and try Norm's theory of only taking enough money for what I wanted to buy, so at $10 each I took $50 so I could get 5 if I liked them . Haha I came home with 6 because there was only one left and she said I could take that as well because she new it would be looked after well.

 

I will put pictures on later when they settle in better, but this is what I think I have:

 

Albino Hen - (not sure as the eyes look more plum but she is pure white not a mark on her)

Violet Normal Hen

Grey or Mauve Normal Hen - not sure it's hard to tell

 

Yellowface T2 Blue Opaline Cock

Yellowface T1 Grey Cock - (The reason I said Type 1 is because there are no other yellow colors on it anywhere not even the tail - is this right)

 

The free one is a Skyblue Normal Cock.

These are the photos of the babies we got last week, just guessing on mutations - please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Violet Normal Hen

 

Albino Hen (Eyes look more plum than red?)

 

Skyblue Normal Cock

 

 

Yellowface T2 Blue Oplaine Cock

 

 

Yellowface T1 Grey Normal Cock (not sure on the type 1 - there is no other yellow on the bird except face)

Information on Quarantine Programs

Like others have stated quarantine isn't the be all & end all. Most diseases will live well beyond the normal quarantine period that most give. Some like Megabacteria [avian yeast] are basically endemic I haven't read all of Daz's post on quarantine as yet, but if you tested all that it seems to suggest the price would be prohibitive. Also all these thing might be right & proper for introductions into a country, by quarantine authorities, but for the normal bird breeder I think it's crazy.

 

The so-called experts often advise what I think are crazy regimes for keeping livestock. I have throughout my life kept lots of different species, as I seem to have a desire to keep many animals & birds. They suggest that you only keep one species in a given area & if not should wear different clothing, wash hands, shoes etc when moving from one to another. I believe you have to use common sense when keeping livestock, but some of these ideas would take all the pleasure out of keeping anything, in my opinion. I have always kept chooks & often hundreds of pigeons, which are species that have a very high immunity to many of the common diseases, so are thought to be a hazard to other not so rugged stock. With some of the advise that we are given of keeping stock completely isolated from infection, I'm pretty sure if you were able to succeed in meeting their criteria, when stock was taken out into the wide world they would almost drop dead instantly, because of their lack of exposure to the normal world.

 

I'm afraid in my experience often our society seems to install into us fear, fear of all things, of course if you fear enough money can be made from this fear. Just look at some of the adds on TV, where they suggest that you spray this or that to remove even all the bacteria from your life. The majority of bacteria are beneficial to life, some even essential, some bacteria are extremely toxic, but these are a minority. It is now suspected that some of the immune problems experienced today that weren't experienced in the past, may be because people weren't exposed to "bad things" early enough in their life, asthma being one.

 

My thoughts are that all livestock have to be exposed to the real world & bred in that environment & selection made from stock that can survive with the least amount of input possible. No matter how much care you take, birds can't be protected from things borne on the air from maybe wild birds or rats & mice. Our seed stores constantly attract these pets, which man has been fighting since the beginning of time without success, still they are present. These things [the rats & mice] are an example of something that has been exposed to the real world & man has even thrown everything possible at them & still they are winning, which is a triumph of genes over adversity. I think the only real cure for anything is like nature does it, through breeding. Natural things have lived through time unimaginable without help from humans, doctors or vets. I believe this is the only solution to the problem. If you want to live under the regime of fear, if taken to it's ultimate extreme, you better not take your next breath, as it could be the one that holds your ultimate demise. As with every breath you take you take risks…life is risk. As the Buddha said "Life is suffering"

 

 

 

Well that's my bit I hope it's not too heavy for you guys.

Edited April 27, 200817 yr by Norm