Hi

 

Sad to be sitting here writing this and I feel sick writing about it. Will try and keep it short. Percy unwell with gut problem, they did fecal test and it came back he has got infection... Strep something and bad growth of it (I kept telling them before but they said it was his liver problem!).

 

Anyway my avian vet is away this week but the others gave me the result, said to take him in to get antibiotics. The exotic pet nurse Daniel was very nice, said I would have to give Percy meds orally by syringe... I've done this before lots of time even tho very stressful for me.

 

Daniel gave him first dose whilst I was there... when I brought Percy home he was breathing noisily.... kept on and on shaking his head... was going mad as though something wrong and he kept flying to me from his cage. (I'm SO upset about this I feel ill).

 

Phoned the vets Daniel said Percy was only stressed out which I knew he wasn't because he doesn't get stressed. As Percy was shaking his head some seed came up.... I mentioned to Daniel and he said yes that's stress. I said it wasn't and that Percy was gaping as he breathed and was sounding as tho he had a chest infection. He didn't have any of this before I took him to the vet.

 

Anyway, they said to bring him over which I did and they have him under observation..... I'm DREADING this morning... I don't know how he will be or if he survived.... I'm gutted and distraught. I don't know how I could allow this to happen..... I shouldn't have let him do the meds.... all these things are going thru my mind I'm at my wits end.

 

If Percy's condition hasn't changed what can I do? Does it get better or what..... and what about the rest of the meds... 4 more days.... I don't think I can do it now.

 

Sorry to go on... I'm devastated because my little baby went thru *** last night and I'm not sure how he will be today. Has anyone had anything like this happen and how did it turn out? Would so appreciate your comments/thoughts please as I'm desperate.

 

Thank you everyone, I can't tell you how I'm feeling right now.

 

hugs

Chrissie xx

(((Hugs back)))

Chrissie, I cant help you with the medical stuff. I'm so sorry and I Really hope your Percy is okay.

Thinking of you.

 

(((more Hugs)))

Liv

Oh Crissie,

 

(((hugs))) You poor thing. I hope Percy made it through the night. Don't blame yourself, you were doing what you thought was right for him. You weren't to know the **** couldn't give meds correctly. I haven't experienced this before, but I hope it all goes well. Please keep us updated... maesie xxx (I'm only a PM away if you need to chat, winge, cry etc to anyone)

Edited March 12, 200817 yr by maesie

Sounds like he has aspirated the meds...taken them into his lungs. Sometimes they can clear them by themselves with a shake of the head and a cough or two. BUT why the vet did not give the meds by crop needle I dont know. Its way safer and gets it into the crop and avoids all issues with aspirating...much safer. But I guess this vet couldnt do that either.

Hope it all turns out for the best and Percy begins to feel better. Biggest hugs to you :angel1: for the scary momnets and the stressful days.

Keep us advised .....

Edited March 12, 200817 yr by KAZ

:sad:

 

Im so sorry for you.

I had my best breeding hen killed so I know how you feel. im not and expert so I cant give you any advice but to keep him comfortable.

 

Chrissie, I'm sorry and hope your Percy is okay.

*HUGS* You weren't to know what might happen. I am also questioning why he didn't give you a crop needle, or do it himself. It is so much safer. Giving birds liquid by syringe is something my lecturers say to avoid if we can - too easy to get it down the lungs. Whereas the chance of getting the crop needle down the trachea instead of oesophagus is small.

Observation and hospital cage is the best thing right now, there is little you can do yourself to help a bird with aspiration pneumonia.

 

Even a little bit of liquid in the lungs will make them cough a lot. It sounds like he is still able to breathe okay. If he can cough it all up he can get better. That is one scenario. Their respiratory systems are quite delicate and he is apparently battling infection at the same time.

What do you know of his other illnesses? I ask because Strep tends to be a secondary invader when something else goes wrong, and you mentioned something about the liver. Strep itself can occasionally cause respiratory problems.

 

As for meds... I would insist on a crop needle, or you could go buy one yourself. Alternatively they may keep him hospitalised for a while and do that for you. Otherwise, you might be able to switch to a different formulation that goes in the water or on the seed. At the moment they should be giving him antibiotic injections to help him against infection.

 

*HUGS* I hope all goes well for you.

Edited March 12, 200817 yr by Chrysocome

Hi guys

 

What a lovely lot you are, I can't thank you enough for your prompt replies and words of encouragement. It's after 9 a.m. here and we have phoned the vets to ask how Percy is and were told that !"they haven't done their rounds yet... phone back after 11 a.m.!!!". To me that's cr*p service, I'm frantic here to know how things are and they can't help, just about sums them up.

 

I'm in anger now so can write, before I found it very upsetting but it's amazing how anger sees another side of things! When I can, I am going over there to see what is going on. I just KNEW when I heard his breathing last night that it could turn into pneumonia... just knew it could go that way and I'm so devastated. I should have asked for antibiotics for his water.... but I didn't, why I never listen to my inner voice I don't know.

 

This is the first time in 6 yrs that we've had Percy that someone has found out the problem with his gut and look how it turns out! He has always had the runny poos, green poos, not much urates, water or milky droppings and I've scoured the internet to find out what was going on, taken him to three different avian vets and one diagnosed liver disease and fatty lipoma.... but never did anything for it apart from occasional antibiotics, probiotics et al and Percy although always chirpy, has never been 100%.

 

I really thought last night that at last we would be able to help him, that his constant fluffing up on his back over his vent, the bad droppings which were sticking to him and his tail bobbing would be over after this course of treatment... how wrong could I be! I don't know what is going to happen now, I am going over soon and hope to get back to report here when I can (I'm ill myself at the moment so things are very difficult all round).

 

I just want to thank you all for your wonderful help and advice, but to say I'm devastated about what's happened is an understatement, I just don't know how I am going to cope over this.

 

Thank you again guys, I'm just so thankful for this forum and some friendly people who know what it's like to have a sick bird.

 

hugs

Chrissie xx

Oh... I'm really feeling for you. Big hugs xxx. Go on down there and give them a serve! If they let you have him back, have you got another vet whom you trust that you can take him too... if he's okay? I don't really know what else to say other than that I'm thinking of you and Percy, and praying for good news. Best of luck, Maesie xxx

If a vet cannot crop inject meds to a bird then their not a vet in my books , How unprofessional .

I hope he pulls through this , But with everything that hes been through that you said , it sounds like hes a carrier bird these are birds that do not recover fully from desiese , they come good but when stressed go down hill again .

Hi Chrissie,

 

I am a big fan of *hugz* too, I give the out lots to all the special people I love.

 

I think that you only have another 1/2 an hour till 11, I realy hope that Percy is okay and regaining some strength.

 

 

Lonebudgie, I believe that vets only spend a day or so on bird study. Unless they specialise they don't really have the expertise to treat birds. This is why on this board we ALWAYS stress the importance of finding an avian vet. You should find the location of an avian vet if you have a bird. That way you aren't stressed about finding one in an emergency.

 

*hugz* Chrissie..

Anyway my avian vet is away this week but the others gave me the result,

 

 

I hope you got good news when you went to the vets. Its never nice to hear about a bird in distress... Keep your chin up you've done everything in your power to do the right thing and we can tell by the post that you care deeply for your budgie... We've read about many neglected budgies on this site, and yours isn't one of them.

 

Take care and try to be possitive..

Hugs...I hope you have better news soon I would be very upset too and I can completely understand why.

Hugs...I hope you have better news soon I would be very upset too and I can completely understand why.

 

Hi everyone, thank you all so much for your lovely words, they are really appreciated I can tell you and especially in my hour of need like last night and this morning. 11 p,m now. Good news and not so good news! Percy is home with us..... thank goodness no coughing or wheezing so he must have cleared it by shaking his head as he was here before we took him to the vets last night. Collected him this morning but of course he's not at all well with the infection! The not so good news is that because this vetinary nurse Daniel has said that they can't give him injections for this infection, he will still have to have the antibiotics he gave me but I said I just couldn't not give him them now orally not after last night (I would have tried had that not happened). He said to put them in some water and see if he will drink them which I have today and I've managed to get him having some but I know it's not like a full dose so I'm really unhappy about this.

 

I am going to post the lab results here and if anyone has any comments, again I'd appreciate it very much. My avian vet is on holiday (from the same vets as Daniel) so I have booked to see another exotic animal vet about 18 miles away for Friday, just to get a different slant on things, especially the meds.

 

Percy is moulting yet again so obviously resistance is low, he is scratching a lot too (maybe his liver disease)..... so all in all not in a good state BUT as over the 6 yrs he's been here, he still tries to be chirpy and overcome this, you can just tell.

 

The lab results are as follows:

Salmonella negative Campylobacter negative Culture and sensitivity - A heavy growth of Staphylococcus sp (1) & a Streptococcus sp (2) was isolated

 

I have been given Clindamycin to be given over 5 days.... this is in powder to be mixed in water and given orally (which Daniel did last night with awful results).

 

So there it is.... apparently on the results, the infection is resistant to Amoxycillin Marbofloxacin Sulph'zole/Trimeth which doesn't mean anything to me except that I was told they don't have anything specific for birds for this infection, so can only give dog/cat or human medication to them!

 

Anyway, sorry for the long post... I'm still as worried as *** over my baby but at least he's home but I'm having to watch him go up and down..... it's really awful. Didn't think before but maybe Londbudgie is right, Percy has had this gut infection from when I first got him (on and off) and they've never found out what it was before, maybe he is a carrier...sob..... poor little soul.

 

Thanks everyone, you have kept my spirits up today I can't thank you enough.

 

hugs from me and Percy to you all.

 

Chrissie xxxx

Thanks for the update

 

Is there anyone at all that can teach you how to use a crop needle for administering meds ?

thank you for the update...I am glad you have an answer

Dear Chrissie

Im glad that you got him back. I hope it was just a little fright that he wanted to give us.

 

By the way those results. I belive it would take me a year to understand all that!!!!!!!!! :yellowhead:

 

All the best

Katy

Chrissie, thank goodness he was all right. I was thinking of you and Percy all night and getting rather angry myself.

I can explain the results and tests to you and then hit the textbooks/interwebs to see what else I can find out. I can also guide you on crop feeding. But I'm between classes right this moment and need to rush off. I just wanted to say *hugs* and thanks for the update.

Edited March 13, 200817 yr by Chrysocome

Chrissie, thank goodness he was all right. I was thinking of you and Percy all night and getting rather angry myself.

I can explain the results and tests to you and then hit the textbooks/interwebs to see what else I can find out. I can also guide you on crop feeding. But I'm between classes right this moment and need to rush off. I just wanted to say *hugs* and thanks for the update.

 

Again thank you everyone, gosh you really are helping me through this. Firstly I must say that I could not face using a crop needle.... I really couldn't do it to my little darling, honestly I'd shake and be too nervous so there's no way I could do it. I printed off your message Chryso... and showed Daniel (nurse) and he got quite annoyed and said he'd been giving meds for years by syringe and he'd have known if Percy had aspirated the liquid...and that he would only use a crop needle for a parrot and then only in exceptional circumstances... I would appreciate any help Chryso if you can spare me the time please love. Yesterday I put the meds in a little drop of water and coaxed Percy into sipping some, but of course it's not the dose he needs but something it better than nothing I feel.

 

Although still very unwell suffering this dreadful infection, he bucked up again last night and was talking a lot and was in and out of his cage (we only shut the cage overnight and when we go out, he's always out when at home) and he was brighter for a little while. What a fighter that boy is... I can't believe it.

 

Anyway, I have booked to see another vet (exotic animals) on Friday so will see how that goes. Having a chronic illness myself this is taking its toll on me but my baby comes first so I have to do the best for him and with your help on here it's really giving me faith that he will get well. THANK YOU SO MUCH.

 

hugs to you all

Chrissie xx

Hi Chrissie. I'm glad you got your little boy home! That is fantastic news! His meds still sound like a headache! Good luck with that. If you could get taught how to crop feed (as Kaz said) that would be very benificial to both you and percy. Are there any experieced members that live near you? Best of luck! I'll be thinking of you both again tonight! ((((hugs)))) Maesie xxx

glad he's home with you now... hope the meds work out. Your doing a great job.

I am rather surprised about what he said about crop needles. The vets I have seen prefer to give oral meds given by crop tube (maybe it is different in your country?). I know I was terrified the first time and kept asking the vet to make sure I was in. But it is easy. It is pretty hard to get it in the trachea and you can tell by feeling it.

 

I will try to explain Culture and Sensitivity. They take the sample from the infective area and grow it on a nutrient plate that bacteria thrive on. They then look at a bit of it under the microscope to see what type of bacteria it is. They can classify them using stains and the appearance of the bacteria.

Campylobacter is associated with the intestine as well as the liver. Salmonella is associated with general signs of illness, and sometimes liver problems. So I guess they were looking at something that might link infection and the liver, but they didn't find those particular bacteria.

They also take the culture plate and stick different circles of antibiotic around it and give it time to incubate. When they look at it later, circles can be clear or unchanged. The clear ones are where the antibiotic has killed the bacteria. The unchanged ones means that that antibiotic has no effect - they are resistant to it. They do this to make sure they don't use an antibiotic that is absolutely useless.

So they figured out that the bacteria are resistant to amoxycillin (a penicillin), marbofloxacin, and sulphametoxazole/trimethroprim, but not clindamycin which is different to all those. Giving birds medicine registered for other animals is common practice. There are few that are specifically registered for birds.

 

Staphylococcus and Streptococcus seem rather complicated at a first glance in my textbook. It seems like Percy has a chronic form of it - as others have mentioned, he carries it and seems okay, and it only shows up when he's particularly stressed. I must apologise, I am exhausted after a long day and now have to study for pracs tomorrow. I will sit down with the books on the weekend and tell you what I can find about Staph and Strep. I hope what I've written here helps somehow. At least with the full names you can have a look at it too.

 

But please remember, I'm not an avian vet with the bird in front of me - I can only give my opinion from what you have told us. I hope it goes well on Friday and good luck. *hugs*

Edited March 13, 200817 yr by Chrysocome

Hi Chryso

 

Your help is invaluable thank you so much and with you having to study etc, I really am so grateful for you taking the time with me here.

 

Percy is up and down today but that's to be expected. I am looking up about staph and strep so I can see what is going on, but thank you for all the explanations you are SO kind. Thinking back over the years, it does seem he's worse with the gut problem when he moults which of course is to be expected at that time of stress etc. I did notice this morning that the staining around the droppings in his cage were a little lighter green than have been before, guess that's the effect of the dose that Daniel gave him. I haven't tried today but will mix up the portion later and see if I can give it to him (shaking...eek) or just try and get him to drink it. I really want him to get better I need him to have something at least. I will see what the other vet says tomorrow, and hopefully things will improve as each day goes on. We did a thorough clean and disinfect of his cage and everything he touches (took us 2 hours... sigh... we aren't in the best of health (Laughing out loud)). Hopefully we will do that again in a couple of days time... have to try everything to get my baby well again.... I really thought we had lost him this time.

 

Thank you again for all your help I can't thank you enough. Good luck with the pracs.... I really hope you do well.

 

hugs

Chrissie x

Hi again, I just wanted to update you on the visit to the new vet yesterday. She was really good I'm pleased I went. She said that Percy has more than one lump but there's only one lipoma and she hopes that the others are just fat accumulation. However she did a blood test and needle biopsy (she said she gave him anaesthetic thank goodness) and would should get the results back next week sometime.

 

She said to finish the course of Clindamycin (I managed to get some into him last night but again not the full dose). She said the continuous scratching he always does is lack of Vit A (never been told this before). She also said that the moulting more than usual could be thyroid problems (sigh).... The drawing up of his right leg (which he started doing a couple of weeks ago) could be a problem with kidneys or testicular problems and that, that is a worry. She told me that the Staph and Strep are not usually found in the bowel and that is unusual so she said something is going on there too (I don't know if the blood test will tell).

 

She said we MUST try and convert him to pellets which I've tried before but because he wouldn't I gave up which of course now I wish I hadn't.... although I do put him on canary seed at times as that's less fattening. So all in all, not a good prospect for poor Percy but he did brighten up again last night thankfully. It was a long journey for him and he coped well but I'm just wondering what the results will be and I just hope we can get rid of the staph and strep this time or I will have to give more antibiotics (sob).

 

I just thought you might like to know the latest. Thank you all again for your support and caring thoughts as I really appreciate it.

 

hugs to you all

from Chrissie xx and Percy

Thanks for the updates...I have been worrying about Percy. Seems like the new vet is very thorough and you seem to have a confidence in her as well which bodes well for the future. I have all my fingers crossed for Percy's future health and wellbeing

Hello Kaz

 

Thank you for your kind thoughts, it's so nice of you to care like that. Yes I certainly do have more confidence in this vet than others I've seen with Percy and especially our local avian vet who has dealt with Percy on and off for nearly 6 years. I'm just hoping we can help Percy as although he is brighter at the moment, he is still scratching like mad and fluffing up his back over the vent area.... I only hope he's not in pain... I hate to see him like that when he's "down".

 

I will let you know when I get the results from the bloods and biopsy.... am just keeping all crossed that things aren't going to be bad news.

 

Chrissie xx