Could some body tell me whether can we get Blue YF type 1 and type 2 (gloden face) offsprings by pairing normal blue (white face) with normal green (yellow face).

It is possible, but you need to have certain hidden characteristics in the parents.

 

Number one, you need for the normal appearing green to be split to blue. If this bird is split to blue, then it is possible, otherwise there is no hope at all.

 

Number two, you need for one of your birds to have the yellow face gene. It is possible that the blue bir could possible have a double doage of this gene, thus aappearing to have a white face, but this seem highly unlikely. It is also possible that you Green bird carries, even displays the yellow face gene, but once again, unlikely.

 

Ultimately, it is possible, but rather unlikely that you will get a YF from a normal blue and a normal green.

It is possible, but you need to have certain hidden characteristics in the parents.

 

Number one, you need for the normal appearing green to be split to blue. If this bird is split to blue, then it is possible, otherwise there is no hope at all.

 

Number two, you need for one of your birds to have the yellow face gene. It is possible that the blue bir could possible have a double doage of this gene, thus aappearing to have a white face, but this seem highly unlikely. It is also possible that you Green bird carries, even displays the yellow face gene, but once again, unlikely.

 

Ultimately, it is possible, but rather unlikely that you will get a YF from a normal blue and a normal green.

 

 

that is interesting info there, Dave. i paired a normal green female with a sky blue spangle male and got 2 yellow face type 2 babies.i have always wondered how it happened because i did not know the background of the parents.the next year i paired the same male with a different normal green female and i got 3 blue spangles and one yellow face type 2.

it is the not knowing the background of the parents that can make things exciting for the average breeder - but maybe frustrating for the show breeder - (Laughing out loud)!!!!1

it is the not knowing the background of the parents that can make things exciting for the average breeder - but maybe frustrating for the show breeder - (Laughing out loud)!!!!1

 

 

i only breed pet budgies so i love putting a pair together and seeing what colours i will get.At the moment i have been thinking about putting the yellow face type 2 that i got from the first pair with a blue recessive pied and see what the outcome would be.

As Dave said the Normal White Face Blue, could be a double factor Yellow Faced bird that is produced by mating a YF Blue to another YF Blue. Also any Green bird can be masking YF Blue, so you have the possibility of getting it from both…only by pairing each with other birds could you find out which one is carrying the YF.

The DF yellow face can only come from the YF1, which I think in pet birds isnt a common mutation.

But your green like everyone said-has a chance of being split blue and masking YF.

Thanks to everyone responses.

 

Here all the breeders (only very few are available near to my place) are mostly having only normal green, normal blue, pieds, recessive pied, opaline... mutations. So I need to work out on my own to get this one.

 

I am not yet good at genetics, read couple of times and still not clear to me...so below is my understanding on this:

 

Step 1 - pairing normal blue and normal green (parent mutations of both are not known)

 

Step 2 - pair green split to blue (offspring from step1) with normal blue or opaline blue

 

So from step2 I can expect some YF blue offspring right, please correct me if my understanding is wrong.

Thanks to everyone responses.

 

Here all the breeders (only very few are available near to my place) are mostly having only normal green, normal blue, pieds, recessive pied, opaline... mutations. So I need to work out on my own to get this one.

 

I am not yet good at genetics, read couple of times and still not clear to me...so below is my understanding on this:

 

Step 1 - pairing normal blue and normal green (parent mutations of both are not known)

 

Step 2 - pair green split to blue (offspring from step1) with normal blue or opaline blue

 

So from step2 I can expect some YF blue offspring right, please correct me if my understanding is wrong.

 

You may have misunderstood as the explanations kind of got complex. The only way you will get Yellowface birds is if the parents carry the Yellowface gene. A green budgie has a naturally occurring yellow looking face but it is NOT a yellowface. It or any budgie can hide the yellowface gene but you will only find that out by breeding with them. BUT if as you say there arent yellowfaces with any breeders around you, then chances are you have no yellowfaces in the birds you have if they have been sourced locally.

Yellow Faced Blue is what is called a Dominant gene, in the normal situation if a Blue bird doesn’t show this gene [mutation] it wont be capable of having a YF Blue chick.

 

With YF Blue being Dominant only Green birds [which are Dominant over it] can carry it unknown. As Kaz said if YF Blues are not common in your area the chances that some of the Green birds may be carrying it could be rare. So it would be best to try & buy a YF Blue bird & then mate it with another Blue bird to get YF Blue chicks.

Yellow Faced Blue is what is called a Dominant gene, in the normal situation if a Blue bird doesn’t show this gene [mutation] it wont be capable of having a YF Blue chick.

 

With YF Blue being Dominant only Green birds [which are Dominant over it] can carry it unknown. As Kaz said if YF Blues are not common in your area the chances that some of the Green birds may be carrying it could be rare. So it would be best to try & buy a YF Blue bird & then mate it with another Blue bird to get YF Blue chicks.

A double factor yellowface will have a white face though Norm. I have had white faced blue birds that were in actual fact double factor yellow face birds and all the chicks were yellowface.

You may have misunderstood as the explanations kind of got complex. The only way you will get Yellowface birds is if the parents carry the Yellowface gene. A green budgie has a naturally occurring yellow looking face but it is NOT a yellowface. It or any budgie can hide the yellowface gene but you will only find that out by breeding with them. BUT if as you say there arent yellowfaces with any breeders around you, then chances are you have no yellowfaces in the birds you have if they have been sourced locally.

I was already in half confused state Kaz and after seeing your reply, now I am totally confused :yellowhead: ...since may be my lack of knowledge on genetics.

 

Until I saw your reply, I was under impression that all green series budgies are yellowface type, so just pairing a green with blue we will able to get YF offspring.

 

Okay how do we know whether a green budgie is carrying a YF gene or not, we will come to know only when we breed it out or is there any way visually we can identify this.

 

But if I am correct, initially we had only green and blue mutation budgies and from which we have got all these other mutations right?

 

Also I have tried to understand how these genetics is working, but so far failed....could some one please guide me in right direction to make me understand this, it will be really greatful.

 

Thanks,

Karthik

First you have to understand that there are 2 base colors in a bird.

 

A green bird is a bird that has a yellow base and then the blue coloring is mixed to make a GREEN bird.

A blue bird is a white based bird is a bird that lacks the yellow and therefore it is a white based bird.

 

The face of the bird usually shows the base of the bird expect in the Yellow Face Variety.

 

In yellow-based budgies the blue in the body feathers combines with the yellow base pigment, which results in a bright green, the most common variety. In white-based budgies there is no yellow base pigment, so the blue structure of the body feathers results in bright blue coloration.

 

If a green bird carries the Yellow Face Gene is under debate from what I read I have not read anything concrete (unless someone else has) that they carry the gene. The only way you would know for sure is if you bred a Green Budgie to a TRUE white faced budgie because there are WHITE faced budgies that are carrying 2 yellow face genes which makes them visually white faced but they are not a TRUE white face.

 

Does that help?

 

So your question is will you get a yellow face?

 

ONLY if a GREEN bird can carry the YF gene

ONLY if your blue bird has 2 yellow face genes and is not a TRUE white face

You will ONLY get a blue bird if your Green bird is carrying the BLUE gene but then you still may only get all Green it is just a %.

 

If you want this type of mutation you are better off using Yellow Face 1 or 2 Blue Birds (male and female) and if I am correct Norm? Didn't you say that Golden Face is a gene separate then Yellow Face? Someone I thought said that here.

Edited March 4, 200817 yr by Elly

Thanks Elly for explaining this and now I feel some thing has gone into my head.

 

But to better understand this budgie genetics, I should keep reading more genetics articles from very basics of genetics until I understand this completely. Hopefully I will start it from this weekend.

Edited March 5, 200817 yr by Karthik

a great way to learn is when people ask questions about what they will get is to figure it out and leave the answer and if it wrong we can explain why this is how I learned I knew nothing about budgie genetics.

 

OFF TOPIC: I got your PM and will look and respond more over the next few days as my kids are off again due to weather.

As Pie explained after my explanation [i had forgotten] that to get a White Faced Blue that is carrying the YF gene it has to be from two Yellow Faced Type 1 birds [which has a pure Blue breast, no bleed of Green] which as she explains isn’t a very common mutation. In this case the Double factor produces White Faced birds, which still carry the gene. Even though the YF gene is Dominant, it is complicated by these two different types. If you mate two Yellow Faced Type 2 [the ones that have a bleed of Green in their Blue breast] you will get YF2 & white Faced Blues, only the YF2 will carry the gene. Some time you could be lucky & pick a Normal Green [yellow faced] bird & look for some Blue bleed in the feathers especially near the legs or tail, you may be lucky that this bird is carrying the gene, but its not positive that this is the case. Otherwise as I said before the only positive way is to look for an YF bird & purchase it to start with, as the only other way is through mutation, which is very rare.

Thanks Elly for explaining this and now I feel some thing has gone into my head.

 

But to better understand this budgie genetics, I should keep reading more genetics articles from very basics of genetics until I understand this completely. Hopefully I will start it from this weekend.

 

 

If you want to breed Yellow faces , go out and buy a yellow face bird then breed with it , You will then get yellow faces .

Thanks Elly for explaining this and now I feel some thing has gone into my head.

 

But to better understand this budgie genetics, I should keep reading more genetics articles from very basics of genetics until I understand this completely. Hopefully I will start it from this weekend.

 

 

If you want to breed Yellow faces , go out and buy a yellow face bird then breed with it , You will then get yellow faces .

:doh: thats what i was thinking matt didnt want to go their though

In short, this cock is likely not the carrier or the cause of any yellow face. It is 99% likely both the hens he paired to were split for blue, and carried YF2 which would not have been detectable as they were green birds.

 

White faced blues are either normals, or double factor yellow face type 1. You cannot mask YF2 or golden face in single or double factor in a blue bird.

 

Green birds SPLIT FOR BLUE can have one normal set of genes for normal yellow pigmentation (which is why they are green..) and one faulty (i.e blue) mutation. Without going into specifics that 'blue' gene can be normal blue, or a single YF1, YF2 or golden face gene. A green bird could never be double factor yellowface and produce 100% yellow face in its blue offspring - at MOST 50% of its blue offspring will be yellowface if it is carrying a yellowface gene and is paired to a normal blue partner.

Edited May 12, 201015 yr by Dean_NZ

Karthik Said:

Could some body tell me whether can we get Blue YF type 1 and type 2 (gloden face) offsprings by pairing normal blue (white face) with normal green (yellow face).

 

Short answer is yes. A question in return. Are all the chicks produced Yellowfaces or only some? Can you post photos?

 

Dave_McMinn Said:

Number one, you need for the normal appearing green to be split to blue. If this bird is split to blue, then it is possible, otherwise there is no hope at all.

 

The Green being split to Blue would not produce a Yellowface unless the Blue parent was a double factor Yellowface.

 

Deb said:

that is interesting info there, Dave. i paired a normal green female with a sky blue spangle male and got 2 yellow face type 2 babies.i have always wondered how it happened because i did not know the background of the parents.the next year i paired the same male with a different normal green female and i got 3 blue spangles and one yellow face type 2.

 

Your pairings are interesting and the results are definitely capable of happening. Are the two hens by any chance sisters or closely related. By those results it would seem the hens are split Yellowface. With both pairings have 2 genes for blue and one each for yellowface and green there is a very good chance of producing blues and Yellowfaces.

 

The pie said:

The DF yellow face can only come from the YF1, which I think in pet birds isnt a common mutation.

 

The Yellowface Mutant I is more common than your think pie.

 

The pie said:

But your green like everyone said-has a chance of being split blue and masking YF.

 

Green, all 3 Yellowface mutants and blue are multiple allelic and as such cannot carry Green, Yellowface and Blue at the same time. The Green can be split for Yellowface or Blue.

 

Elly said:

First you have to understand that there are 2 base colors in a bird.

A green bird is a bird that has a yellow base and then the blue coloring is mixed to make a GREEN bird.

 

Sorry Elly but you obviously know nothing about how colour is produced in budgies. We are not dealing with paint here. The only pigments found in budgies are Melanin (black) and Pscittacine (yellow). It is the structure of the feather and the light that is subsequently refracted through the feather that give us a Green bird. Removal of the Pscittacine pigment results in a Blue bird. There is NO Green or Blue pigments in budgies!

 

Elly said:

If a green bird carries the Yellow Face Gene is under debate from what I read I have not read anything concrete (unless someone else has) that they carry the gene.

 

This is not under debate at all. Yellowface genetics was worked out quite satisfactorily quite a few years ago by Professor Rowena Lamy, T.G. Taylor and Professor Warner. Ken Gray wrote a book about his most favourite variety the Rainbow, which of course includes quite a comprehensive information on Yellowfaces. Peter Bergman has produced the most recent article.

 

Norm said:

As Pie explained after my explanation [i had forgotten] that to get a White Faced Blue that is carrying the YF gene it has to be from two Yellow Faced Type 1 birds [which has a pure Blue breast, no bleed of Green] which as she explains isn’t a very common mutation.

 

I seriously hate the term ‘bleed’ as it is not what really happens. Yellowface is a result of the removal of Pscittacine pigment. Depending on how much is removed as to which mutation you end up with. Also each Yellowface mutation is in single and double factor form.

 

Norm said:

If you mate two Yellow Faced Type 2 [the ones that have a bleed of Green in their Blue breast] you will get YF2 & white Faced Blues, only the YF2 will carry the gene.

 

If you pair together 2 Yellowface Mutant II (you type 2) you will get Yellowface Mutant II in both single and double factor and a certain percentage of Blues.

 

Norm said: Some time you could be lucky & pick a Normal Green [yellow faced] bird & look for some Blue bleed in the feathers especially near the legs or tail, you may be lucky that this bird is carrying the gene, but its not positive that this is the case.

 

Sorry but you will not be able to tell if a Green is carrying Yellowface by looking at the feathers near the legs and tail. This area often shows a blue tinge and more so under certain types of lights.

 

Dean_NZ said:

In short, this cock is likely not the carrier or the cause of any yellow face. It is 99% likely both the hens he paired to were split for blue, and carried YF2 which would not have been detectable as they were green birds.

 

Dean although I agree with you about the cock I feel you are incorrect about the hens. They cannot be Green and split for Blue and Yellowface at the same time. You even say this in your last paragraph.

 

Dean_NZ said:

White faced blues are either normals, or double factor yellow face type 1. You cannot mask YF2 or golden face in single or double factor in a blue bird.

 

Correct.

 

There is always the chance that the Green bird is not a Green bird. It may well be a single factor Goldenface. It is quite common for people to see these birds as Green and describe then as such. Hence why we like to see pix.

I just want to say, Thank you, RIP. That's awesome that you took the time to pick through all this and make sure to set us straight. Good job!

Dean_NZ said:

In short, this cock is likely not the carrier or the cause of any yellow face. It is 99% likely both the hens he paired to were split for blue, and carried YF2 which would not have been detectable as they were green birds.

 

Dean although I agree with you about the cock I feel you are incorrect about the hens. They cannot be Green and split for Blue and Yellowface at the same time. You even say this in your last paragraph.

 

Dean_NZ said:

White faced blues are either normals, or double factor yellow face type 1. You cannot mask YF2 or golden face in single or double factor in a blue bird.

 

What I meant by this is both hens are split for 'blue', and the 'blue' mutation they are split for would be YF2 (so in essence they are green split for yellowface blue mutant as opposed to basic 'blue'). I know they cannot be green + split blue + yellow face, rather green + yellowface blue.