These are some of my thoughts on feeding drugs & chemicals to birds.

 

In the wild, birds or any other animal in fact, breed each year if the conditions are right. Of the birds bred only a small proportion of them ever survive till maturity to breed, its called survival of the fittest. I also think that you have to keep birds in the environment that you wish them to live & see which birds can cope with it, as it’s impossible for us to provide an environment like they would experience in the wild. In my opinion from reading what others do on the net, I feel that too many chemicals are used. As soon as, or even before a bird is sick they are given a drug. At one of our club meetings someone made the statement that you never need to loose a bird these days through sickness. I think this idea is the reason that today some strains of birds need drugs to survive, there has been no selection by nature in their birds & only birds that the breeder likes are kept, especially if a bird complies with the standard of perfection for showing. There seems to be no thought or idea that it’s important for the bird to survive in its environment as well. If birds are popped up like this & bred from for successive generations, of course you will build strains of birds that can’t survive without them.

 

I have in the past fed antibiotics for what I thought was Psittacosis [didn’t have a vet check] years ago it was recommended that it had to be fed for 30 days…of late the instructions says now 45 days. When I used it, it was Vetafarms…I fed it to Neophemas, Cockatiels & Budgies. I saw little if any effect & eventually had to kill the birds infected in most cases, it kept others alive, but they turned out useless anyway. And it was expensive. Also even though vets issue some of these chemicals, even antibiotics, the experts tell you they shouldn’t be used unless to cure an infection, not as a preventive, other wise they will build up immunity & later be useless in coping with real problems when they occur. I also thought that my infections were possibly introduced by mice entering the aviaries & after years of trying everything I found it impossible to remove this avenue completely. So even after spending amounts of money, the next day it could be introduced again. My thought is that the only real cure is like in nature through breeding.

 

I have always found when you buy in birds you have greater losses in the first few generations until the birds adapt to your conditions or you remove the weak ones. I have started out in Budgies again in the last couple of years & even without using drugs I have only lost a small number of birds & I noted that most were from a couple of families. This year we have had exceptional wet humid conditions & I started loosing a few birds, one here one there. I have approximately 300 birds that I have bred this year & so far I have lost something like around 20 birds. It always hurts to loose birds, especially when they are birds you had set your sights on as good birds. But I feel I have to be realistic…all birds can’t survive & I hope by letting nature select theses birds that I can’t see anything wrong with, nature is helping me breed more healthy birds. If your main thing in life is to breed that National champion, well that bird just might die sadly, but if you want to be a breeder that has the bird fancy & its future in mind…especially to breed strong healthy birds, I feel that’s the way to go.

 

If you only keep one of two birds as pets & don’t breed, well that’s a different situation…keep your friend alive at any cost if that’s what you want.

I agree with what you are saying Norm. The cocktail of drugs given on a cyclic basis by most breeders creates what is termed a "soft" bird. A bird that rapidly goes downhill the minute it hasnt the same supportive drugs going into its body.

I dont give my birds any of this on a regular basis. The only real thing I use is Calcivet, when required. I have seen it bring back hens from the brink with eggbinding of fixing hens laying soft shelled eggs etc.

I have had in the past, some birds sick, that everything before me and since was tried on them to make them better and they still failed to thrive. I remember one time I had five hens who looked like death warmed up. I had tried to make them well again using the drugs of choice and they still looked like death warmed up.

I took the example of Tough love that a breeder over east has done. I put these five hens in the smallest cage I had, hung it from the ceiling in the birdroom and told them to die if that what they wanted. They had basic seed and water. A couple of weeks later they had gotten over whatever was dragging them down and they were miraculously cured. All due to no drug interference I believe and also maybe in part to me telling them ...DIE if thats what you want. Weird.

In a way that sometimes when we have sick dogs and we put them on a very plain diet of chicken and rice till they get better, the no drugs and plain food for a sick bird often makes them find inner strength and reserves to fight the infection.

I know bought in birds that have been given a regular cocktail of artificial drugs and support systems have gone down like a ton of bricks once they arent receiving the same drugs here.

In talking about this, I do not advocate a no vet visit for pet birds that get ill. I support that. But I am referring here to show birds raised on an artificial diet of drugs.

Edited February 27, 200817 yr by KAZ
spelling

Are you talking about the antibiotics that 'they' feed our meat chickens to make them bigger etc??? or the antibiotics that make sick birds with bacterial infections better?? :wine

 

Personally...

I don't like using drugs on my animals, birds, kids or myself. I cringe when a doctor or vet prescribes antibiotics. I Will use them if they are really needed though.

I also have the view that certain drugs create weak birds (and humans). I feel germs are good (to a degree) and letting the immune system get strong is the best cure for a lot of disease

 

Not one single antibiotic has entered any of my birds (that i know of) and I have not lost any of my birds for MANY years.

 

The last death i had was about 3 years ago and that hen was about 11 years old - out of the blue she decided to lay and egg and got egg bound with prolapse, she was put to sleep at the vets

Edited February 28, 200817 yr by **Liv**

Are you talking about the antibiotics that 'they' feed our meat chickens to make them bigger etc???

No...that is not a part of breeding show budgies.

Are you talking about the antibiotics that 'they' feed our meat chickens to make them bigger etc???

No...that is not a part of breeding show budgies.

 

Phew!!! I'm pleased - its a horrible practice

I think that we have to be careful to distinguish between medications that are not necessary for health reason and the the ones that are used to control paracites ect. I think that it is prudent to worm birds at least yearly as we keep birds in high levels in somewhat confined areas this practicde gives paracites and the like premium conditions to thrive unless controled in some way . I use Ivamectin as a matter of course for every bird , but in saying this am reticent to use antibiotics unless sure of the illness . Cocciosis is an example is where the is no cure unless a medicine is used .

Just dont throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

Bubbles.

I think that we have to be careful to distinguish between medications that are not necessary for health reason and the the ones that are used to control paracites ect. I think that it is prudent to worm birds at least yearly as we keep birds in high levels in somewhat confined areas this practicde gives paracites and the like premium conditions to thrive unless controled in some way . I use Ivamectin as a matter of course for every bird , but in saying this am reticent to use antibiotics unless sure of the illness . Cocciosis is an example is where the is no cure unless a medicine is used .

Just dont throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

Bubbles.

I do use ivermectin for parasites etc and coccivet when diagnosed cases too. What I dont do is the cyclic water additives that some do..2-3 days of this and 2-3 days of that on a revolving basis where no illnesses are evident.

I may be new to breeding but I have taken a stance similar to you Norm. There is nothing that nature cannot provide to keep our birds healthy. A good diet is esential also a good clean living environment and you will ruduce or eliminate the need for drugs.

I may be new to breeding but I have taken a stance similar to you Norm. There is nothing that nature cannot provide to keep our birds healthy. A good diet is esential also a good clean living environment and you will ruduce or eliminate the need for drugs.

 

I agree

i've only recently started using Some kinds of suppliments (calcivet. multi vitamin and a few others) but i too beleive that treating our birds for NO actual illness is not the best thing in the world... I'm yet to encounter cocci... and in the event i'm sure the opinion of using drugs would change should i be losing my flock... but for now... i only use what is required... when required... and generally only vitams/minerals ect. which i see in my eyes the exact same thing as providing fresh fruit and veg for them and calcium bells and so on (which i also do)

Edited February 28, 200817 yr by *libby*

I am a firm believer in the fact that since starting my birds on natural branches and leaves 3 times a week...like peppermint tree...that the birds are getting natural medicines. When there is an abundance of that given to the flock they are at a premium.

Edited February 28, 200817 yr by KAZ
spelling

Agree with that point Kaz, there's definatly something in the leaves that they "want" and know is "good" for them...

I haven't lost a bird since i've been feeding them natural branches *touches wood*

I Agree, before I purchased my first birds I spent a lot of time reading. I read about mainly breeding and one thing I noticed was a lot of top breeder's fed their birds natural. We had a presentation one night from an old experienced breeder (40+ years) who only ever fed his birds natural products that he either grew or picked from the bush and he rarely lost any birds. His theory was if it was good enough for the wild budgies who have lived for longer than humans have been here then it's good enough for his birds. I personally have not lost any adult birds but only have been breeding for a year.

Well Im going to be the exception here , as I believe there is a place for medications .

Nature, sure is the best for the wild budgie , but we have not natures budgies in our avaries but birds bred in a domestic way , here in the avairy we can try to produce the ways of nature but it will never happen , as we are concentrating many birds in one place and its here where problems occur , in nature disease is left behind when the flock moves on and any diseased bird dies and is also left behind , so to think that we can produce nature in our avairy I think would be nieave .

I give cocci meds on a regular basis as it protects the flock and is proven to have no side affects. I know breeders that lost over 150 birds due to a cocci outbreak in 3 days , and this wasnt due to their avairy mangement , it was a possible infection for an outside bird , If meds were used this could have been prevented.

I also keep sulfa based antibiotic meds on hand and have saved many a sick bird that has gone on to live a happy life , Just like if your child gets sick you to will do anything to make them better again , Id dout that you would put them outside and hope for the best .

I also question the Quarantine period , My idea of quarantine is to treat the bird for all possible diseases which starts with lice and mites , then worming followed by canker/cocci treatment then meds for psittacosis and finally mega treatment , this allows for the safe transition to the avairy with no chance of infecting the avairy . Birds can hide many diseases through the quarantine period if all you are doing is watching them , as soon as they are put in the avairy they have to find their pecking order and this can stress a bird which can soon bring on any hidden problem .

Im just saying that meds have their uses and should not be discounted , I also dont give meds continually without any sickness and I dont know of any breeders that do this either , maybe in the past . Imagine the expense today!!.

Thats my opinion.

I agree with a lot of what you say lonebudgie. I do use sulpha meds for the same reasons too. There are a lot of show breeders that use meds on a revolving constant thing in their water without evidence of illness and even they know and admit it creates "soft" birds.

Quanrantine the way you do it is great. I treat for most everything in quaratine too as an incoming bird can have any myriad of diseases.

But in my aviary, I treat only for any that show signs or symptoms of diseases and not as a regular " in the water thing" apart from the usual ivermectin etc.

I admit I also use Ivermectin; every bird that comes into my aviary gets a drop, as a prevention to the introduction of mites & worms. Apart from that I try as much as I can to keep my birds as healthy as possible with good sound food, soft food to increase protein & supply minerals & daily fresh greens, but I’m lucky in that sense as I live in the country & have plenty of room to grow unpolluted green food.

Hiya Norm,

 

I too worry about the over use of medications, not just on birds but humans and all animals kept by humans. Overuse leads to resistant strains or "soft" stock as Kaz mentioned. I believe this is one reason why there was recent regulation on the control of anti pssiticosiss meds.

 

My birds all go through a quarantine process, where they are all treated with ivermectin for mites, worm-out gel for (you guessed it) worms and internal parasites and coccivet for coccidiosis (a common disease carried by budgies). Once they have come through my quarantine process the only things they get are nutritional suppliments, because we can't mimic mother nature and the goodness they naturally get from the land.

 

Still, they do not get these routinely. I give them as much as possible in their diet supplemented with native plant material. At times of stress , breeding (when calcium becomes an issue), moulting (when protein becomes an issue) etc I do use appropriate suppliments.

 

Post quarantine I don't use any 'medication' or 'drugs' unless a bird is sick and requires treatment.

 

 

Feathers.

Edited February 28, 200817 yr by Feathers