Without knowing the parentage or test breeding the bird, what are the visual differences between the Dark Eyed Clear (a pied variety) and the Double Factor spangle... as both are all yellow/white and black eyes... what are the differences when looking at them?

The Double Factor Spangle, eyes will lighten up and you will see the iris rings their eyes do not stay dark as you mentioned above, the male's cere will turn blue. The DF spangle has 2 spangle genes vs 1 like the single factor spangle where you can see the spangle markings.

 

The Dark Eyed Clear, eyes will stay plum and will not lighten up so the iris ring is not visible (hence the name dark eyed), the male's cere will stay pink. The dark eyed clear is a combo of recessive pied & clearflight pied.

Edited February 13, 200817 yr by Elly

Agree with Elly Df spangles have Iris rings, Dec's Do not As to the cere rule, don't forget there's always exceptiopns, so it's best to go by the Iris... I own a Df spangle boy who's cere has never changed and it as pink as s recessives. There was some debate on here as to whether or not he was infact a Df spangle, but being cabinet bred to a mauve opaline dom pied hen and producing opaline spangles in both clutch it has been concluded he is infact a DF spangle split cinnamon + opaline hope that helps

Edited February 13, 200817 yr by *libby*

 

This birds has black eyes and no iris ring...What is she?

I've seen her in the other post Daz so i'll be saying DF spangle Point taken, maybe not only the Iris ring is worth going by ... Perhaps only test breeding or knowing the parentage is the right way

In some cases but you need to look at the whole bird before saying what it is.

 

A Black Eyed Clear is a recessive variety but a very special one. As it carries two recessive pied genes and a dominant clearflight gene it has some special features.

 

I believe that the cock's cere is pink not blue, the beak is orange not the normal colour and the feet and legs are pink not Grey. So looking at the DF Spangle we see that the beak is normal colour and the feet are grey.. So this bird probably doesn't carry the recessive pied gene.

Daz, that info was very helpful... I had forgotten that my rec pied had the orange beaks and good to know that carries over in the DEC... which helps a lot. But the other info is also good to consider. Obviously knowing the parentage and test breeding is the factor most of us will have to go by, but it does help when trying to visually identify one without knowing that information on what other clues can be looked at (cere, feet, beak, eyes)... especially when there are exceptions to the "rules" as Daz's bird shows.

 

Thanks!