I'm proposing that I do a little more research on the topic and present each side fairly by merely posting facts that support *both* sides of the argument and emphasize safety. Is there something wrong with this?

 

I don't propose to go into endless discussion about this.

 

However, whatever research you do will certainly not come up with my viewpoint in the "both" sides, as it's not so simple.

 

My objections to clipping are based on my unique and PROVEN training techniques which include having a baby bird bonded with and flying to its owner within 6 weeks.

You won't find this viewpoint and technique in any research you do.

You'd have to read my book for that.

 

The dangers of a simplistic "Fact Sheet" is that there will be so many errors and misconceptions in the so called "facts" presented, that it won't be worth the paper its written on and worse, may mislead people.

It's quite easy to get a baby budgie bonded and flying to you in six weeks, I don't see how much of a technique would be needed. It's hard to get an older one to do this but I have done that as well.

 

You're not the only one to have trained budgies. I have had clipped budgies. I now have flighted budgies. I have done plenty of research and have enough experience to be fair in how I present the facts. Reading your book would only be giving me ONE person's point of view and my goal is to give basic facts so that each person can form their own opinion.

 

I'm sorry if I won't find your technique in my research but I'm not trying to teach anyone a certain taming technique or I would be using my own. I'm just trying to present facts. It's up to the owner to do more research, assess their situation, and decide what is best.

Edited October 17, 200519 yr by eterri

I'm sure if you write it out for Terri, and either post it here, or pm her she will add your viewpoint to it. Terri is a bit of an information junkie so, I know she will appreciate it.

I'm sure if you write it out for Terri, and either post it here, or pm her she will add your viewpoint to it. Terri is a bit of an information junkie so, I know she will appreciate it.

 

Hi Lin,

I have a business to run and am not interested in carrying on this conversation any longer as I can see it will never end.

Maybe the wing clipping facts should be closed to comments as this is something that creates a looot of conflict. That conflict is what leads to empty spouting rather than expressing facts.

 

i dont believe this i got loads of stick of people because i deleted posts on this and asked people to do a search because it was becoming heated again i got acused of stoping peoples freedom of speech ect do you know you just cant win

Yes, but that's the whole purpose of a topic that shows ONLY facts and not heated opinions. It wouldn't say "THIS is right and THIS is wrong." It would say "this is what wing clipping is, its purpose, pros, cons, you make your decision."

 

That's what I thought was decided upon anyway. Whether or not you want comments is up to you and the other mods and Adam, that part really doesn't matter to me. I was just suggesting it so it didn't open up the same arguments again. Just trying to find some middle ground.

Yes, but that's the whole purpose of a topic that shows ONLY facts and not heated opinions. It wouldn't say "THIS is right and THIS is wrong." It would say "this is what wing clipping is, its purpose, pros, cons, you make your decision

 

 

I was just suggesting it so it didn't open up the same arguments again. Just trying to find some middle ground.

 

exactly why the post was removed as it got heated and people started to call others names then the accusation started i was hiding the facts freedom of speech ect ect as i said you just canr win

Yeah but the thread that got closed was the one where people were being civil and making valid points. This one is full of garbage. The other one was so much better. :angel1:

(Laughing out loud) hath i think the problem is that there currently is no basic source of un-opinionated information that we can all refer new members to when they have a question regarding this topic.

 

i for one would be very happy to see this whole topic deleted and for a new closed topic of un biased information to be pinned in its place. eterri, if you would like to write it up then go for it also if you need any feedback when the post is under construction just PM me and i will give you an honest and unbiased opinion. you could also PM hath as he has the opposite opinion from me and if we both feel that both sides are equally represented by simple facts, we could pin it. how does that sound?

 

i really think this is needed. i also think that it is best to get information from more than one source and evaluate the evidence. no matter how you look at it, if you only ever get your information from one source it will definitely be opinionated in some way or another, by the author.

wrong the last posts on there where quite bad at the name calling that was why it was removed

I must've missed that, I remember seeing it removed immediately after pixie expressed her opinion (and no name calling in that) because I was in the process of adding to it, (Laughing out loud). If bad names were called, maybe just those particular posts should have been deleted in order to show people that while they can express their opinion, it won't be accepted unless it is done properly?

 

It doesn't matter now though. I think it's a good idea to write up some facts, have the both of you look it over and see how that goes?

i for one would be very happy to see this whole topic deleted and for a new closed topic of un biased information to be pinned in its place.

 

unfortunatly i dont think it will be unbiased by the nature of the subject its to emotive

 

you could also PM hath as he has the opposite opinion from me and if we both feel that both sides are equally represented by simple facts

 

to be honest i dont have any views on this matter really i just played devils advocate last time by throughing the word disabled in to the equation if you remember, i dont hand tame my birds so dont need to clip or train

I don't have any strong emotional attachment to either side. I see the good in clipping wings and the good in keeping birds flighted. That's why I wouldn't be bothered writing something up that shows the pros and cons of both. I've experienced both so I'm not biased.

 

But it would definitely be nice to get outside opinions on it in case I write something that just doesn't sound quite right.

okay thats fair enough, only a suggestion.

 

if you gather enough information and simple facts (which there are, they are just often overlooked by strong opinions) i think it is possible to write up an equally sided piece of writing for and against. then a small conclusion saying to always do as much research as possible and decide for yourself which is right for you and your budgie.

 

well i would still be happy to try and give some feedback in one way or another. even if it is just looking back over it and suggesting changing the wording of a particular sentence.

That would be great.

if you want me to help go over i dont mind i dont have any ideas for or against its up to you

That would be good, the more outside opinions the better, I think. Especially neutral ones!

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