When visually looking at a budgie, I cannot tell the dilute (up to 80% suffusion) from a greywing (up to 50% suffustion). How do you tell them apart? I've found/heard conflicting information and from browsing the threads, looks like maybe I'm not the only one confused on how to tell them apart.

 

From this forums sticky post:

 

Greywings Greywings appear in all the normal colours, Green, Blue, Grey Green and Grey. They have a suffused body colouring and the wing markings are a pastel shade of grey on either a yellow or white background, depending whether they are yellow or white. The Rare Variety and Colour Budgerigar Society

Dilutes Yellows are the Green version, Whites are the Blues. You can get Grey Yellows and Grey Whites. They should not be mixed up with Lutinos and Albinos who have red-eyes with a white iris. Yellows and Whites have black eyes with the white iris, the body colour of the Yellows range from a washed-out yellow to an apple green, the Whites range from a lightly-suffused blue to a darker blue, the wings are lightly-suffused.

And from: http://www.budgieplace.com/colorsguide.html#dilution

 

"There are four types of dilution: greywing, full-body-color greywing, clearwing, and dilute. Greywing budgies have grey markings on head and wings instead of black, and the body feather color is about 50% diluted (washed out). Full-body-color greywing budgies have the same grey markings of the greywing but the body color is brightened (not lightened or diluted). Clearwing budgies have very light or no markings on head and wings and the body color is brightened (not lightened or diluted). Dilute budgies are washed out all over. The head and wing markings are very light, and the body color is about 80% diluted (washed out)."

 

from the same site shows these two examples (but they look the same to me):

 

Greywing: Dilute:

 

And here is my greywing (I've been told): http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x271/ra...es/000_2074.jpg

Edited October 26, 200717 yr by Ravengypsy

Hi,

 

there is a difference in the dilution of those two budgies posted, but you are right, it is quite subtle.

 

Can you post better photos of your bird so we can see the front and the back.

 

Oh-Oh is a dilute. The grey gets much lighter in a dilute too.

 

 

 

Feathers.

Edited October 26, 200717 yr by Feathers

Feathers, see my other thread about Yuki specifically: (although the picture link above is the more natural light coloring of him)

 

http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....showtopic=16975

 

 

However I'm really just curious how to tell them apart in general, because they look the same to my untrained eye. I was hoping there might be some thing specific to look for to tell the difference when the 50% vs 80% is questionable.

Hi again,

 

Found one of my greywings to post...

 

 

 

Curio (above) is a full body colour mauve greywing.

 

Dilutes are very washed out in colour and have light tail feathers. The grey is very light and so is the body colour and tail. Whereas greywings have a darker grey, grey tails feathers and much less dilution.

 

Looking at the other thread of Yuki, he is very definitely a greywing. The grey is way too dark to be dilute and he has grey tail feathers.

 

 

Feathers.

Edited October 26, 200717 yr by Feathers

Thanks Feathers for the input on Yuki.. I trust you all with your greywing call.. but if it had not been for that I would have called it wrong. But in the pictures you posted I can see the difference in the darkness of the grey feathers now better. But it's such a fine line of a difference I can see why it's so hard to tell!

Edited October 26, 200717 yr by Ravengypsy

And probably what makes it harder even is that you always get variation in colours…so that you can get a Grey wing, which has lighter markings & a Dilute that has darker markings. I read also that this gene appears on the same allele that has mutated three times.

do a search for a post done by rainbow she had a great post on it along with pics of her birds, it was quite the explanation. I do have difficulties figuring it out.

I found that post and left just as confused (Laughing out loud)... I understand most varieties just fine but this difference eludes me still. The only thing I can see is the darkness of the markings is the difference? The grey tail feathers vs a very light almost white tail feather?

Edited October 26, 200717 yr by Ravengypsy

P.s Feathers - oh-Oh is a spangle

P.s Feathers - oh-Oh is a spangle

 

 

Thanks for that, Nerwen... trust you Yes, but I didn't want to confuse the issue, so I didn't mention it. It is always you or Elly that throws in the corrections

 

 

Feathers.

okay then I just wasn't sure if you had forgotten but I can understand for not wanting to confuse.

okay then I just wasn't sure if you had forgotten but I can understand for not wanting to confuse.

 

 

Yeah, I was going through a 'ditsy' period back when he was in a breeding cage He was exactly what I thought he was to start with.

 

 

Feathers.

Hi, don't know if you saw this picture or not, but it might help. The black shell markings and most wing feathers are the normal black color in the bird in the upper left. The bird in the lower right is a greywing. You can see the color of the wings is about 50% of normal, and if you notice her tail, it has a greyish-blue cast to it.

 

 

This one shows a greywing in the upper left by herself, a dilute third one over, next row (next to the normal from the 1st picture). The rest that you can see the back sides of are of normal color. The photos are old, but at least you can see normals, a dilute, and a greywing next to each other.

 

Edited October 28, 200717 yr by Rainbow

I've just come across this post.. There has in the past been bad decission regarding the breeding of some varieties. In England, there is no Clearwings. What the english term a clear wing is more like a grey wing. This is because they have changed the Standard to suit the bird they were breeding.

 

We have just about lost the Australian Banded Dominant Pied as it is a difficult bird to breed and there has not been enough support for it in the past.

 

The Black Eyed Self is quickly replacing the Dark Eyed Clear. I am starting to breed the Dark Eyed Clear in hope to keep this variety going.

 

It is a shame to see some of the beautiful varieties being lost due to others being more popular.

Edited March 21, 200817 yr by Daz

Daz, How do the BES and the DEC differ?

Dark Eye Clears are from the mating of Continental Clear Flights to Recessive Pieds. The Dark Eye Clear carries one dominant gene and two Recessive genes.

 

Expectation Table

Clearflighted (sf) × Recessive Pied

50% Clearflighted/Recessive Pied

50% Normal/Recessive Pied

 

Clearflighted (sf)/Recessive Pied × Recessive Pied

25% Recessive Pied

25% Normal/Recessive Pied

25% Clearflighted (sf)/Recessive Pied

25% Dark-eyed Clears

 

Clearflighted(df) × Recessive pied

100% Clearflighted (sf)/Recessive Pied

 

Dark-eyed Clear × Recessive Pied

50% Dark-eyed Clear

50% Recessive Pied

 

Dark-eyed Clear (sf) × Dark-eyed Clear (sf)

50% Dark-eyed Clear (sf)

25% Recessive Pied

25% Dark-eyed Clear (df)

 

Dark-eyed Clear (sf) × Clearflighted (df)

50% Dark-eyed Clear (sf)

50% Dark-eyed Clear (df)

 

Dark-eyed Clear (sf) × dec (df)/Recessive Pied

25% Dark-eyed Clear (sf)

25% Dark-eyed Clear (df)

25% Clearflighted (sf)/Recessive Pied

25% Clearflighted (df)/Recessive Pied

 

Dark-eyed Clear (sf) × Clearflighted (df)/Recessive Pied

12.5% Dark-eyed Clear (df)

25% Dark-eyed Clear (sf)

12.5% Recessive Pied

12.5% Clearflighted (df)/Recessive Pied

25% Clearflighted (sf)/Recessive Pied

12.5% Normal/Recessive Pied

 

So as you can see it's not easy to breed DECs.

 

Black Eye Self is a recessive variety.

It had not occured to me that BEC was a genetically different variety than they DEC.... what is the genetic info for the BEC? I'm curious if there are any visual differences or is it just a recessive mutation that looks the same as the DEC?

Apparently Black Eyed Self has a Blacker Eye. I am not into BES but they are more common than the DEC. In Australia they have their own section in a show but the DEC goes into All Other Standard Varieties. This has also the Dilutes amount others.

 

I did most of the Standard requirements for bird. >Section< but not for the rares.

Daz,

 

so as not to confuse this greywing/dilute thread, can the above posts about DEC vs BES be split to a new topic? I know there is a thread explaining the genetic and visual differences, but I can't find it at the moment.

 

As I can't edit my previous posts here, again, is my DILUTE spangle, Oh-Oh

 

 

and my GREYWING, curio..

 

 

 

Feathers

Sorry feather but they do have relavance to this thread. It was being discussed that the so called Dilute may not be a proper dilute as the meaning has it.

 

Looking at your Spangle, I have reservations that it might not also be a proper dilute.

Do you know the parentage? It, to me appears to be a poorly marked Spangle with possible cinnamon dilution of the body. I could be wrong.

 

I have a similar bird that I acquired from Karen that started my Melanistic line off. We believe that she is a Cinnamon Spangle Skyblue. Though she looks more like a dilute.

 

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a26/darrylw/Jaz.jpg

Not a good photo of her.

 

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a26/darrylw/BobJazLisa.jpg

That's her on the left.

 

What we were pointing out is that varieties are lost due to differences in breeding techniques and standards.

 

This might be one of the cases.

Edited March 23, 200817 yr by Daz
Photos over sized.

Hi Daz,

 

no, Oh-Oh is definitely a dilute spangle, no cinnamon at all. Quite a pretty little bird in person. Has been pretty much mated for life with a YF skyblue.

 

Feathers.

The BES [black Eyed Self] is a Dilute & I was told by the guy I bought mine from, that most of the ones in Australia have Cinnamon bred into them, as this gives a better colour. And probably helps loose some of the wing pattern.

 

 

I have my first young in the nest at the moment, two Yellows & one White. Bred from a BES Yellow hen & a Darkwing Yellow cock.