Some of my observations: I have noticed when visiting some breeders of late of British type birds, that the ones I have seen have always quite a few birds sitting on the ground. In my aviary the only time they are on the ground is when they are feeding & then they quickly return to the perches.

 

I also have observed that some show breeders seem to place their young birds in small cages for some time before later releasing them into the aviary conditions. This may be done to quieten the birds for later shows. Also it sounds that some on this forum do the same. I have seen some of these cages also with wire bottoms, so that the droppings fall through. Myself I don’t agree with this so clean philosophy & spraying for all sorts of bugs as well.

 

They are saying these days that part of the reason why so many people are getting allergies & immune deficiency diseases these days is because people live in such sterile environments with no exposure to anything in their younger life, when their immune systems are building their strengths from exposure to things in their environment.

 

I know with poultry that if you keep young birds in raised cages without contact to the earth & then later they are returned to ground conditions, birds can die from contact with Coccidiosis, which if run with their parent hen from day old they seem to build resistance naturally. Even when raised in poultry farms they are fed medicated crumbles with a coccidiostat, which doesn’t kill off the single cell organism, but just reduces them so that they can build a natural immunity.

 

I have noticed with my young Budgies, who are placed in aviaries straight away after leaving the cabinets in which they are bred, that they are soon seen eating dried droppings from other birds; maybe this is a natural vaccination against things. Many animals are known to eat dropping & even some insects like termites eat their dead relatives to become infected with beneficial bacteria that are necessary for their existence.

 

Also I notice my “teenage” young Budgies as soon as they become accustomed to their new cage conditions, are seen flying madly around the aviary for some months, I think this is very important for the building up of their wing muscles, so that they become strong flyers & maybe also build up their entire bodies. Also to deprive them of this time seems cruel as they seem to enjoy this activity so much.

 

In my opinion, but I’m no expert, it would seem to me, to be good to expose birds from a young age to the sorts of conditions that they will live in all their lives, as I think no matter how much sterilization you do, there is no way you are going to protect them forever from bacteria or virus & other disease producing organisms. Budgerigars have been living in the wild for thousands or millions of years without help from us & have built systems to survive natural conditions, but have only lived a short time with some of the chemicals that humans have devised, maybe they are at more risk from them than some of the old diseases.

 

I also keep my bird under the “deep litter system” which means I don’t clean the aviaries that often, of course they must never be let get wet, this system becomes super dry & I think dropping hitting this surface are dried out rapidly. The litter becomes a living mass also, with mealworms & other things which probably eat dropping & maybe disease causing things. I also only clean my nest boxes between pairs. Often some insects [of course I don’t let mites or lice] live in the nest material, which must have been happening since Budgie began breeding in logs. My birds seem healthy & the droppings never very wet & form dry balls. Of course if you breed your birds in your house you may not require this. If your feeding is not correct & the nests become wet & messy something must be done. Mainly to correct your diets. Anyway that’s some of my thoughts, which may vary to the ideas of some.

very interesting observations. I have to say, mine only go on the floor of the aviary to fourage for food, then they are right back up on the perches. I am like you, they go into the aviary after leaving the breeding cage.

 

I'm interested in your deep litter system.... what is the base of your aviaries? My aviary is on wood with rollers underneath so it can be moved aroud the patio if needed. Ontop of the wood is sand. I vacuum this out every month and replace it with new sand. How big are your aviaries too?

Edited October 1, 200717 yr by *BUUZBEE*

i agree with you that the aviaries get cleaned too much by some people... we try to let ours get a bit dirty and we keep it covered with straw... i have 4 diasbled birds and 4 quails which use the bottom of the aviary so it's never allowed to get overly dirty but our system of replacing the bottom cover one a month or so seems to work well too and all babies are released into the aviary once they can fly unless they were bred in there themselves... i try not to use many cleaning things also unless a mite spray or scaley face direct treatment... everything else my birds have to wing it but they're all in good health but i like your thoughts and totally agree with everything

Interesting reading Norm. I have an "over sterilisation" philosophy which applies to life in general, similar to your own. I think people are getting paranoid about too many natural germs etc and its the reason we, as humans also suffer so much more from disease and illness. Normal cleanliness is healthy, but all these soaps, wipes and detergents that disinfect.....are they really necessary? (under normal circumstances of course).

My flights get cleaned once a year,if they need it or not,Thats in April.The breeding

cages are cleaned,at the end od the season.The start of the new season,I put down a layer of sand

& cat litter.All I do then is remove the build up of dropings At the end of the round I replace the ice cream container in the nest box with a fresh lot of,wood shaveings & kitty litter,& vacumb a build up of husks out of the cage, leaveing 25 to 30mils in the bottem of the cage.That way the budgies can have a

dust bath in the litter in the bottem of the pen.I havent had any problems,with bird alements,tough wood

in eight years. :feedbirds:

very interesting observations. I have to say, mine only go on the floor of the aviary to fourage for food, then they are right back up on the perches. I am like you, they go into the aviary after leaving the breeding cage.

 

I'm interested in your deep litter system.... what is the base of your aviaries? My aviary is on wood with rollers underneath so it can be moved aroud the patio if needed. Ontop of the wood is sand. I vacuum this out every month and replace it with new sand. How big are your aviaries too?

 

My aviaries have concrete floors, with two rows or concrete block bricks around the base. They are almost a metre wide by three metres long & a little over two metres high. They are completely within a shed, so that they don’t get any rain into them.

I agree with a lot of what you have to say here Norm. In making the birds conditions so very unnatural we are creating a bird that neither has the robust health and natural immunities of its ancestors and is a bird often termed "soft" by some show breeders. The overuse of chemical additives makes the birds reliant upon them for their survival.

Touch wood I have yet to see an aviary of birds on the ground as you have described but that may well go hand in hand with the more advanced show breeding as birds get bigger and buffier, and many suffer inheritance of feather issues as well. I know when you spoke of birds that seem to "fit" or go into spasms when caught before, I have also seen that on occasion too. Thats a real worry and smacks of heart issues to me.

I tried the deep litter method before with kitty litter covering the base of my breeder cages, but I ended up with issues of moths and dung beetles crawling through, and then had those "beasties" to contend with. So, decided it wasnt for me. I have also used sand.

I am now back to using paper, ( changed once weekly ) and some of my birds have shown that they will shred paper and nest in it at the base of breeder cages instead of using the nestbox, so that habit of theirs is marked down and those particular birds dont get any floor treatment in their breeder cage...just the wooden base. I do transfer those birds and their eggs back into their nestbox. My nestboxes have wood shavings.

I have also seen show breeders use of all mesh cages and with mesh floors and personally I hate them. If anyone has ever seen a budgie trying to walk across a mesh floor they would never use a mesh floor cage in the future...poor little things look like they are walking on hot coals.

I have also seen the pedantic use of mesh grids under perches in the aviaries of top show breeders who swear by the need to avoid at all costs the birds eating their own droppings......yet the balance of the aviary floor has no mesh grids and dropping land there to be eaten if the bird feels like it.

With regard to my fledglings, I make sure they are eating on their own and flying well and then they go into my fledgling aviary, until they are past their first moult and then into the main aviary with the adults.

With regard to medicating birds. I identify the problem and only treat those with issues. I dont as a rule do the 2-3 days of this additive in the water, 2 days of another additive and so on as some do on a regular cyclic basis. One of my main uses would be some calcivet for breeding pairs leading up to eggs hatching, then I only use if chicks or parents have issues.

 

A very interesting read from you Norm. I am very much interested in your reasoning and theories. I dont think you would ever let the grass grown under your feet as we say over here, and your thirst for knowledge and powers of deduction is a credit to you. Look forward to many more of your interesting and thought provoking "articles"

Cheers kaz

Thanks for your input & ideas guys, I'm interested in getting involved with discussing more in-depth subjects of our interesting hobby, first off I'm most interested in the birds, their health, stamina & happiness. Naturally Budgerigars are a most energetic happy bird, I had really forgotten how joyful they can be, since I had them when I was young, now I think I can appreciate them a lot more than I did then. I think it's sad that they might loose that vigour, if we are not careful. Nature is still the most knowledgeable selector & I like to let it still be part of my breeding strategy. Select for your desired characteristics, but still let it have its part, as it knows more than we can ever contemplate.

Interesting reading Norm. I have an "over sterilisation" philosophy which applies to life in general, similar to your own. I think people are getting paranoid about too many natural germs etc and its the reason we, as humans also suffer so much more from disease and illness. Normal cleanliness is healthy, but all these soaps, wipes and detergents that disinfect.....are they really necessary? (under normal circumstances of course).

I agree with you, I think our society uses fear in many ways, so that we loose confidence in our own self, of course if they can scare you enough, they can encourage you to buy their products & part you with your money, which is I think what’s the basis of their plan in the first place. Not some altruistic care in your health.

Edited October 2, 200717 yr by Norm