Hi everyone

 

Lukie was very quiet last Thursday and then perked up on Friday. About about 1.00am on Saturday morning he started vomiting and vomiting until there was nothing in him to bring up. I sat with him for a couple of hours until he went to sleep. During the day he was sleepy and quiet but no vomiting and his poops were normal. On Sunday he was a little more active but was very irritable squawking loudly all day on and off. We noticed that he had a dirty vent which he kept pecking at. We decided to clean it before he infected himself. We washed it in warm water to which I added a little salt. An hour later he had very watery diarrhoea. Was this because he was upset by us washing him? Anyway, he slept very well that night and still no more vomiting and his poops appeared normal during the night. On Monday he had a wet poop after eating his seed. We took him to the vet and he asked us if we had given him anything new to eat or if there was a houseplant he could have nibbled on. The only things new are a set of rubber rings we got from a parrot shop which he has chewed on but nothing has come off it. Also I bought him a different seed bell which he had been nibbling on (we have thrown that out now just in case it was the source of infection.) Then we also gave him a new cuttlefish bone - should we throw that out too? I have disinfected the new rings again with F10. We told the vet about the fresh veg we have been giving Lukie and he said that we mustn't give him leaves in bags as the leaves in these bags are drenched in Chlorine!! I didn't know that!! It has been an easy way to give Lukie a variety of organic leaves. The vet has told us to order our veg from an organic farm box scheme and to grow some of the leaves that Lukie particularly likes as well. I thought I would just let you know about the chlorine in case anyone else is feeding their bird these leaves although I am sure you are all more informed than I am.

 

The vet has given Lukie another antibiotic for 7 days and then a probiotic full strength for 14 days then a weaker strength daily. He doesn't want me to change his diet yet until he is absolutely well.

 

I told the vet how concerned I feel about Lukie low weight. He says that although Lukie is quite lean he has more trouble with obese budgies and doesn't feel I should try and fatten him up. He says that Lukie has the muscle tone of a wild bird so he is getting a lot of exercise and therefore using up a lot of his calories.

 

The problem we have now is that Lukie is still squawking and screeching a lot of the time! I have tried talking to him quietly and he eventually quietens down and starts to chirp quietly to me. But when I leave the room or anyone else goes in, he screams again. This is just not like him. If I sit in the room with him, he wants me to keep talking quietly to him and keep giving him my full attention, otherwise he buzzes me squawking! I can hear him squawking now. Any ideas of how to quieten him and why he is behaving like this? I have turned off the radio in case he doesn't want to listen to anything, in the hope that he will just rest and doze until he feels better but that hasn't happened.

 

I am upset that Lukie is ill again and I feel like a bad bird owner.

 

Luv

 

Vonn

sounds like he is having separation anxiety when you leave the room

with you coming back each time he sqawks you are rewarding him for his behavior

as loud as it gets you need to ignore it or you can cover him for like 5 mins for him to settle down

 

Interesting about the leaves in a bag, I do feed that to my birds too. Glad the vet was able to help out Luke.

Thanks for the reply, Elly. I don't think it is separation anxiety as this is not his normal behaviour. He normally calls to us during the day and we just call back to him and he is satisfied. We have been thinking about the squawking this afternoon and wondered if it could be the antibiotic making him irritable. He looks irritable - his eyes look really cross. As I say, he only calms down after I chat to him quietly. What we found worked this afternoon was to switch off the TV/music and keep the room very quiet. He then settled down without us in the room and slept for the rest of the afternoon. While he is ill perhaps it would be unkind to cover him or ignore his squawking, but if it carries on when he is well again, I will take your advice. Maybe I should just tolerate it while he feels unwell? It does drive you bats though! He isn't looking well this evening. He had one wet poop and the rest are normal so he is improving, although he still looks unwell. I have heated the room this evening as he is puffed up. He is asleep now.

 

The vet said that he grows all the leaves for his birds and also gets some from the farm that he told us about. He said he would never give his birds those bags of leaves. Funnily enough, Jamie Oliver (the chef) mentioned those bags of salad leaves a few seeks ago on television. He said that he never uses them as he has been told by some expert or other, that there is virtually no nutrition left after all the treatment the leaves get to keep them fresh! I didn't really take much notice of it but now I am going to stop buying them. It's a pity as they are SO convenient and there is a great variety of leaves in each bag. too.

 

I am upset that Lukie has been ill twice in such a short time. I wish I could find the reason. Thanks again for your advice.

 

Luv

 

Vonn

it is very upsetting...and you do what you feel is best

 

word of advice though they are smart cookies and because you are giving him quite a bit of attention when he feels better he may expect the same (maybe I am wrong) but they are very much like kids.

 

Keep us updated.

Hope Lukie is doing okay now, aren't they AMAZING how they pick up on things???

Oh dear!! I cannot take the squawking anymore - I am going crazy. You were right Elly and I will have to do something about it now or we will all go deaf! Wow, can he SQUAWK!! They certainly are smart little birds, Phoebe, and I think he has my number! I get very upset & I feel guilty when he is unwell. He seems to have quickly realised that he can milk this for all its worth!!! He is definitely on the mend - no more puffiness, no more vomiting and his poops are normal. He is not quite himself though as he is normally a sweet natured bird. He is behaving like the bird from *** at the moment. He only stops the squawking now when I actually go close up to him and talk to him. The minute I sit in a chair, even though it is near him, he squawks and flies at me squawking as loud as he can. So now I can't even sit down never mind leave the room!! In the end I told him 'NO' in a firm voice which he seemed to take notice of for a second, but then carried on. I then then said NO and closed the door and left him to squawk until he stopped, and then I went in again. He tried the same old stunt of squawking if I sat down but I ignored him until he was quiet. He hasn't stopped trying yet, though. AAAHHH!! ! I don't know how I am going to handle days of this!! As he is free I cannot cover him so all I can do is make sure the room is quiet and shut the door until he stops. How long do you think this will go on???!!!

 

Luv

Vonn

He only stops the squawking now when I actually go close up to him and talk to him. The minute I sit in a chair, even though it is near him, he squawks and flies at me squawking as loud as he can.

 

Sounds like Lukie needs another toy or distraction instead of you!

 

As he is free I cannot cover him so all I can do is make sure the room is quiet and shut the door until he stops.

 

Does Lukie have a cage at all? Somewhere he can call his "own"? Not to shut him away in, but somewhere he can go with a few favorite toys, a mirror, food and security. He sounds at the moment like he is craving attention, and his tactics are working. He needs a distraction. Possibly even a carefully introduced companion?

 

You are right that you have to nip this in the bud before it a.) drives you crazy and b.) becomes a permanent behavioral problem with Lukie.

 

Good luck,

KathyW.

Edited June 20, 200718 yr by KathyW

I am going to wait and see what you answer to Lukie having a cage or not? It is recommended that they do have a cage if not for confinement of safety but as Kathy said a place of their own.

 

Let us know

Await the results, very puzzling!

I remember you taking Lukie on holidays with you (or asked about it) so I'm sure there is a cage that is left open all day.

 

This is correct isn't it?

 

The ignoring him until he is quiet is good, as well as a 'time out' session. This has worked for others.

 

A new toy ( more more) can also help the behaviour.

Thanks for the replies everyone. Yes, Lukie does have a cage but he hates been confined to it. He only goes in to eat his food and the door is always open. If he thinks we may be even thinking of closing the door when he is inside eating(he keeps a close eye on everyone), he is out of the cage as quick as lightning and back to his playgym. He will definitely see it as a punishment if I put him in his cage. I would have to chase him, catch him and then put him in. I have never punished him in ANY way and it is not something I would like to do. Wouldn't the ignoring and shutting the door when he squawks be enough to get him to stop? If you really think I should put him in his cage, I will, as I know that you are all very experienced and know what you are talking about.

 

Having said all that, today Lukie is a lot better with regard to the squawking. He called me this morning without squawking and I went and had a long chat to him. When I sat down he didn't squawk, but after a while started to fly at me squawking. I totally ignored him - didn't even say 'NO' as I feel that might even be encouragement to carry on, as it is a response. He flew at me a number of times trying to get a reaction but I remained firm. Eventually he flew at me chirping in a friendly way and I gave him lots of praise. He then tried the same thing with my husband and he did the same as me with the same result. He hasn't totally stopped squawking ( I can hear him now!) but it is a lot better.

 

The thing is Lukie is really not himself he looks angry and irritated. Normally he is slightly fluffy, if you know what I mean, and his head feathers are fluffy and he is so cute and friendly. Now he keeps his feathers close to his body and his eyes are angry looking. Could this be the antibiotic? When I go up close to him and talk softly he closes his eyes and listens and relaxes a little. Normally he would listen intently and answer me and not close his eyes. Everything else about him, health wise, is normal.

 

Any advice? Thanks so much for all the help.

 

Luv

 

Vonn

you know a lot of this could be hormonal too

 

the nice thing of having them in a cage for sleep is that you can adjust the daylight and night hours they get and give them more if they seem to get hormonal. Also is he going through a molt? A lot of this really sounds like a hormonal budgie to be honest. When Pretty would get naughty I covered him up for an hour more it really did the trick. This is something you don't have the ability to do.

 

I would continue ignoring the squawking and walk out. I would only talk to him when he is not squawking and reward him when you see him doing good. Punishment is one thing but even in dogs (heck kids too) they say you have to be firm BUT you need to catch them doing good things more and acknowledge it.

 

As for should he shouldn't be in a cage. I feel it is safer for a bird to be confined at night time or when I am gone. I don't live in your home though so you need to do what you feel is best.

 

You have given Lukie a lot of freedoms and he is a lucky and spoiled bird.

Hi Elly

 

I think you have hit the nail on the head. He is probably hormonal. I never thought of that!

 

I do agree with you about the sleeping in the cage. I would really like him to sleep in his cage with a cover over him. How would you go about this? Chase him each night at the same time and put him in his cage, then slowly put the cover on, while reassuring him? Would this upset him so much that he loses his trust in me? The reason I have let him be free is, firstly, he never leaves the room unless he is scared when he will look for us. I find this is so convenient as I don't have to keep the door closed. I do keep the windows just open so that he cannot fly through them. He has never tried but I am very careful about doors and windows being opened. Secondly, he had an awful time in the pet shop. He was cowering in the corner of a small cage, shaking and looking terrified. I was so relieved to get him out of that situation. Now he really hates being confined. He was a quiet depressed little bird in his cage when we first got him home,but once I let him out of the cage after a few weeks, he just came to life and totally changed into a happy, friendly bird. I used to put him in his cage at night but he had a fear of the dark (you probably remember me telling everyone about it) and I got upset myself, putting him in his cage in a dark room. He looked so frightened. I used to sit with him for a while and chat to him to try and reassure him. It eventually made me so miserable that I let him stay in the living room with us and choose where and when he wanted to sleep. He is not so scared of the dark anymore. I can turn out the light at night without him getting upset. So perhaps I should try getting him to sleep in the cage again?

 

He is still squawking but I am now sure that you are right - it is just hormonal. How long should he be covered in his cage to deal with this problem. As I say, the only thing that concerns me is that it might destroy some of the trust he has in me?

 

Luv

 

Vonn

I just read your reply again, Elly, and you said an hour longer sorted out your bird's hormonal problem. Sorry.

 

Also Lukie doesn't appear to be moulting a lot. There are always a few feathers about but there don't seem to be more than usual. Although I have noticed that he appears to be itchy as he is nibbling away at his feathers quite a bit. Perhaps I should spray him with aloe vera. I do find this helped before. Once again, he HATES being sprayed! (He certainly has his likes and dislikes!) Also, should I wait until his course of antibiotics is over before getting his feathers damp? Sorry about all the questions but being my first bird I am clueless! I really appreciate you taking the trouble to help me.

 

Luv

 

Vonn

Hi Vonn, what a spoiled little budgie you have! Would that all the budgies have so much freedom.

You can spray him before the antibiotics are over as long as the room is warm, and you do it early enough in the day that he will not be going to bed with damp feathers. I'd use warm water, and hide the spray bottle behind you while you spray up, so the water appears to come from the sky. Pretend to enjoy the bath yourself (as you will get a little wet doing this!) and he may not fly off and enjoy the "rain" with you!

You have been given great advice and I guess you just have to wait it out!

What you can do to get him to start seeing his cage as his home is adding his favorite toys, food etc...ONLY in his cage. I wouldn't bam change it over night you know. If this doesn't work then cover up your windows with darkening shades, curtains to darken the room and then when you come in you can open them up for light.

 

I do believe it is hormonal. I wouldn't squirt him with water if he doesn't like it. Having that he had a hard start and you have gained trust you don't want to work on breaking it.

 

You need to work on positive enforcement. Example....if he goes in his cage take a millet spray and let him eat some by holding it on the outside of the back of the cage. The encourages him to stay in the cage, go to the back while rewarding his good behavior. If you come from the front of course he will see you and fly out.

 

Be creative...if you again can't get him to enjoy his cage you may find that darkening the room is the solution.

Edited June 24, 200718 yr by Elly

Hi Vonn, sorry for not having responded earlier, I have had a mess of a week. Firstly, please do not feel badly about Lukie getting ill again as it could have been from any cause. It sounds like it was caused by you being a good Mum giving him treats and leafy vegetables, you can not be responsible for bacteria in the products you buy.

 

Elly has been giving you great advice. You have been great in ignoring his bad behaviour and rewarding his good behaviour and it sounds like he is responding to this positive reinforcement.

 

As for the cage situation. I agree that he should have a cage that he feels safe and secure in and feels at home. My first question is; how big is his cage?

 

I really believe that he needs to be in his shut cage at night time. Why? Because he needs a confined area that he enjoys and feels safe in so that, heaven forbid, in case of an emergency - fire, flood etc - he can be removed from harms way. If you had to suddenly shut him up now and he was really stressed by it, this could lead to illness or worse.

 

Feathers.

Thanks for the advice about spraying, Rainbow. I will definitely try it that way. He hasn't been pecking at his feathers much over the past couple of days, though, so I will wait and see if he really needs it.

 

I really have been given good advice, Phoebe. The members here are SO helpful.

 

Thanks so much for all your advice, Elly. By the way I wasn't thinking of spraying him for punishment! I spray him with aloe vera water to soothe his skin when he is moulting. It works very well. He is not keen on being sprayed. I always use warm water.

 

I will give those ideas of yours a try, as I would really like him to sleep in his cage. I can just see myself having to chase him into the cage every evening, no matter how what I do as he is very determined! Maybe putting his favourite toys into the cage will make the difference.

 

I know that I must be careful about spoiling him too much. I suppose it is because I am trying to make up for the awful time he had in the pet shop. He has probably forgotten all about it now! He is normally a very happy little bird.

 

Great news! He has totally stopped squawking!! Just woke up yesterday and was back to normal. It is his last day of antibiotics and he starts on his probiotics tomorrow for 2 weeks. Hope he likes the taste in his water (if it has a taste).

 

Thanks again to everyone who replied. It means SO much to me to have you guys to chat to about my concerns etc.

 

Luv

 

Vonn xxx

Anytime...keep us updated on your progress with his cage

You won't believe this, but Lukie started vomiting again at about 12.15am ! The poor little chap just heaved and heaved and heaved for a good few minutes. I was really concerned as he hasn't heaved for that long before. He was spraying it everywhere. I tried to get him to sip a little water but he refused. Eventually he went to sleep looking really unwell. This morning he wouldn't eat or drink, so I phoned the vet and he suggested that I stop the antibiotic just in case he has become sensitive to it. He tells me that he has had the odd bird vomit on this antibiotic. He says that all the tests he has done on Lukie show no signs of any problem, so next time he will have to do blood tests and Xrays. I fear the cost as the last two visits came to over a hundred pounds!! I will find the cash if I have to though. He told me to start the probiotic and see how he goes. I mixed up the probiotic in some Evian water and encouraged Lukie to drink it. Eventually, to please me, he had quite a good long drink of it. He ate his seed this evening and is looking better for it. I had to coax him to eat, but once he started he was fine. I think he liked me bringing the food to him and holding the feeder for him while he ate/drank as he is feeling weak. He has been puffy today and I have kept the room very warm. The strange thing he did today was fly at my face. He did it over and over - not in an aggressive way at all. He was quite weak and had difficulty keeping it up but nevertheless he still continued. Normally he flies just above our heads and then does a few laps of the room. He loves that, but this is the first time he actually just flew at my face and then back to his playgym, which is close to where I sit. It really puzzled me. Does anyone have any idea as to why he did that - he didn't do it to anyone else in the family.

 

Luv

 

Vonn

Antibiotics can be a help but a hinder because they have found that they do kill the good bacteria as well as the bad. This is why rabbits in particular are so hard to treat with antibiotics. I found this out first hand with our rabbit we had.

 

I would keep him calm as you can and I know he has open space but flying is not good. This is the perfect reason why he should be used to a cage. Therefore if he ever needed to be warmed to a particular tempature because he was sick he would be comfortable with being in a cage. I really think you need to work on having him cage bound at least for the night...of course do not stress him at this point.

 

As for the dive bombing this can be a hormonal thing. Remember we were thinking he was hormonal and he is doing it to get your attention. You are probably his favorite and he is doing this for attention this is why he is doing it to you.

The strange thing he did today was fly at my face. He did it over and over - not in an aggressive way at all. He was quite weak and had difficulty keeping it up but nevertheless he still continued. Normally he flies just above our heads and then does a few laps of the room.

 

You may have answered your own question Vonn. Perhaps he'd wanted to fly over your head as normal but did not have the energy to get that high? As for "why you", he's obviously marked you out as a favorite. A "substitute mum". When kids are not well, they like to be near their mums.

 

He really needs to be coaxed into that cage. Try bribery. He needs to rest up till he's better, not exert all his energy trying to keep up with his normal antics. Poor little tyke!

 

Cheers,

KathyW.

Thanks for those replies, guys. I will try and get him into his cage - he won't like it one bit, though. If it stresses him too much, I will keep the room very quiet and not give him any stimulation. He is eating and drinking his probiotics and sleeping quite a bit. He hasn't been flying today. He is still puffed up. I'll just have to wait and see how he does. His poos are fine now and there is no vomiting. He must be feeling run down after all this. I want to give him some vitamins but perhaps I should wait a while before adding anything else to his water?

 

You are probably right Kathy - he was probably weak and couldn't fly too far.

 

Thanks again for you help.

 

Luv

 

Vonn

I would darken the room that will keep him more settled Vonn and not promote him to fly as much. Vitamins in the water will be fine, you may just want to check with the vet but he should be on them anyways.