Has any one got any ideas, to help me, on what this bird is, it was bred from a Dark Green Spangle cock paired to a Light Green Opaline hen. They also bred two Lutinos, but none of them showed any markings. It’s an Albino [red eye] I thought at first maybe a Lacewing, but I don’t think the markings are normal Lacewing. To me maybe they are Opaline. The wing markings don’t seem to be regular [all over the wing area] but stronger in some areas, I wondered maybe even a Saddle Back, as the markings are stronger on the top wing butts, then there is a gap clear of marks, then stronger again along the bottom of the wing & into the flights. Of course it maybe Spangle, but the markings don’t look like Spangle. There’s a slight chance it might be a Fallow of some kind, but I don’t think so myself. Its face spots are brown & cheek patches a sort of soft mauve. I think I’ll mate it back to its father when it’s old enough, to see if I can get some of both sexes. What do you think

Edited May 28, 200718 yr by Norm

I would say she is a lacewing and she could in fact be carrying the opaline gene too so she could be an opaline lacewing which could be way her markings look different to you. Remember ino can hide opaline but since she has the cinnamon markings she has something to see visually now to throw off the opaline. This is my opinion

She's a lacewing. The mauve cheek patches give it away - see my yellow lacewing as an example.

 

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b234/kar...gYellowHen3.jpg

Thanks guys…I have only seen Lacewings with normal markings, thanks for that picture Karen, sure looks similar, maybe mine isn’t so well marked, so has some weak patches in the markings, I was interested in getting some Lacewings, so that’s good, I hope I have some other splits of some interesting other mutations I would like. Fingers crossed.

Opaline lacewing :budgiedance:

Here is mine ( stronger wing markings but there in the opaline patterning just the same )

 

Edited May 25, 200718 yr by Kaz

lacewing. I dont know about Opaline but you guys know better.

Edited May 25, 200718 yr by Marlony

Dad would have to be split to opaline then..:budgiedance:

lovely pics.

Edited May 25, 200718 yr by Clonmel_Man

could she have a dilute factor because her wing markings are so light??

Dad would have to be split to opaline then..:hap:

 

Yes I found out he is in fact split for Opaline, as he produced quite a few Opalines with that hen.

 

could she have a dilute factor because her wing markings are so light??

 

I think more likely she is just poorly marked Marlony...I have some work ahead improving them. To get them to look like Karen & Kaz's birds [nice birds guys]. Anyway I'm happy to at least get that mutation, as a start.

Edited May 25, 200718 yr by Norm

poorly marked or whatever she is a beautiful start and I can't wait to see you progress with this mutation lacewings are gorgeous :hap:

know, I didnt mean it that way !! Your birds are beautiful. :hap:

I'll put my 2 cents worth in and say.........Lacewing

know, I didnt mean it that way !! Your birds are beautiful. :sad:

 

Don't worry Marlony I didn't take any offense from your remark. Just thought your trying to learn.

i though from what i know from genetics that a lace wing is a cinnamon lutino i know people say that when their birds look like that but the true lacewing is a cinnamon lutino.

lacewings can be lutino or ino combined with cinnamon

Lutino and albino are considered the same variety except one is a yellow based bird and one is a white based bird.

lacewings can be lutino or ino combined with cinnamon

Lutino and albino are considered the same variety except one is a yellow based bird and one is a white based bird.

 

There is some controversy about that Elly…I have read that fact, that Lacewing is just a combination of Ino & Cinnamon, but others say it’s a separate mutation completely. I’m not sure if it has been proven one way or the other as yet. I think that the yellow Lacewing is the nicest looking, but I think they just come in the two colours, like other mutations. You are right; Lutino & Albino are the Albino [lack of pigment] in either the Blue series or the Green series.

When I read it I wondered because I read that from a different site.

 

The gene works in the same way erasing the blue or the green yes?

 

The 2 colors they come in would be yellow (lutino) with cinnamon marking and (white) ino with cinnamon marking yes?

 

Just making sure I am thinking along the correct lines.

but if you can get a lacewing if you pair a lutino or albino to cinnamon, than it cannot be a seperate mutation can it. Wouldnt it just be a cobination of mutations that's given a diffrent name (lacewing).

I just put the father of this hen to a Lutino hen, yesterday, to see if I can breed some more Lacewings, he also produced two Lutino hens on his first batch. So if Lacewing is a distinct mutation on it’s own, he is split for both red eye [Lutino[ino] as well. He didn’t produce any Cinnamon hens, so I don’t think he’s split for Cinnamon. Here is a quote from…

Ghalib Al-Nasser…My preference is to outcross Lacewings to normals only and without introducing other varieties into the equation. Having said that, there has been scientific evidence, through the work of Dr. Trevor Daniel in the early 1980's, stating that the Lacewing is in fact a Cinnamon Ino. He went about proving his theory by mating an Ino to a Cinnamon and cross mating youngsters, which eventually resulted in him producing a Lacewing. This is due to the "crossover" of the genes because the cinnamon gene and the Ino gene are located very close to each other on the chromosome. However, many Lacewing enthusiasts have disagreed with this theory believing that the Lacewing is a mutation in its own right. Regardless of what theory one would like to accept the Lacewing is a beautiful variety that has its own place on the show bench.

Edited May 28, 200718 yr by Norm

very interesting Norm, I love this stuff. Just for conversation of this topic if you don't mind because I love to learn.

 

How many clutches has he had so far? I have read that recessive or sex-linked genes can sometimes stay hidden for several clutches and then out they come?

 

Lacewing enthusiasts have disagreed with this theory believing that the Lacewing is a mutation in its own right. (is this the part you are saying could be true or agreeing with)

 

that the Lacewing is in fact a Cinnamon Ino (this is the part I have learned to believe).

 

Let me know

 

Oh and I agree they are a beautiful variety!!

Edited May 30, 200718 yr by **KAZ**

Elly, he had three clutches with a Light Green Opaline hen…two Lutino hens, one Lacewing, three Light Green Normals [one hen two cocks], two Cobalt Normal cocks, one Opaline hen, two Green Spangles cocks & one Opaline Spangle Cock.

Seven of his sons have the potential of carrying the Lacewing gene. Some are just now becoming old enough to breed, so I hope I might be lucky to get some more.

You are right about the Recessive genes, if you want to get rid of a Recessive gene it’s almost impossible, as it wont show it’s self until two individuals with the same gene connect. It’s not so true with the sex linked ones, as hens can’t carry them & if a Cock has it, it will mostly come out in some of his daughters.

 

So my cock that produced this Lacewing is a Dark Green Spangle…but through breeding him I find he is split for Blue/ Lacewing/Opaline/ Red Eye. What you would call a Heinz Variety…it’s very interesting though…I have just started back with Budgies & I wait with interest, to discover what other Recessive genes my new birds may have, that is not visible a this time. He is very dark Green & the Opaline Hen has very black markings, which has improved the Spangle markings in some of his Spangle babies.

Re the belief of whether Lacewing is a separate mutation or a Cinnamon Ino…others more expert than me can’t decided, but personally I think it’s probably a separate mutation. Both of the Lutinos that he bred have no Lacewing markings, so that’s why I say he is split for Lacewing & Red Eye. The Lutino hen I have him paired with now is split for Blue, so I could still get white or yellow young, I’m hoping for more of the Lacewing gene, but that’s like Russian roulette…I will just have to wait.

Excellent, thanks for explaining all this to me it really helps.

I am such a why person , my husband loves that trait (NOT) (Laughing out loud) anyways. I am going to save this post for my information in the future.

Excellent, thanks for explaining all this to me it really helps.

I am such a why person , my husband loves that trait (NOT) (Laughing out loud) anyways. I am going to save this post for my information in the future.

:sad: My pleasure Elly & thanks for being interested...regards.

Just a question regarding this part

 

It’s not so true with the sex linked ones, as hens can’t carry them

 

I thought hens can carry them but it is visual because they only have 1 x because they can give it to their boy and then in turn they are now split for that sex-linked gene.

 

Were we thinking on the same terms but saying it in different way?