Hi everyone,

 

I do hope someone could give me some advice. Lukie has been fluffed up for days now. As the weather had changed, I thought he was just feeling a little cold. I put the heating on but this did not seem to help much. His droppings are normal and he hasn't got a runny nose but he is definitely quieter than normal. I phoned my avian vet but he will only be in tomorrow and will phone me as soon as he gets in. Meanwhile my husband looked up various sites on the internet. One said that it was probably a virus and we should keep the room temperature very high even up to 90 degrees! so that he doesn't have to fluff up to keep warm, but can rather use his energy to fight the virus. We have the heating turned up and put a fan heater on in the room but he is still fluffed up!? We have all had viruses of late and I wondered if he perhaps picked it up from us? I am really getting very worried now and check on him every five minutes like a mother hen!! Lukie is a little ray of sunshine in our lives and we couldn't bear to lose him. If anyone has any advice that they can give me I would be so grateful. Lukie is our first budgie so we are novices at looking after birds.

 

Luv

 

Vonn

You are doing well, by keeping him warm. Try setting up the cage as a hospital cage, covered and kept warm, perches low and food and water easily accessible. He really needs to get to the vet as soon as possible in the morning.

 

 

Feathers.

That's great taht you're going to get him in as soon as you can in the morning. Feathers gave great advice about the hospital cage. Its very rare that birds catch illnesses from people, so don't worry about having gotten him sick. Good luck!!

This is literally what happened to Pretty in one day. I am not here to alarm. You are have more advanced noticed and the things you are doing are all right. Keep him very warm this is the key, let him rest, put a spray of millet by him and see if he will nibble. If he can't perch put him on the cage floor with a towel and keep the cage covered to keep it quiet. He probably (not diagnosising) has a upper respiratory infection which can be bacterial or virus.

 

I am not sure if your bird eats a lot of food rich in Vitamin A but this is one of the most common deficiency with birds on all seed diets and not enough Vitamin A in a bird can cause the lining in the respiratory tract to break down. I did a lot of reading since Pretty's passing to teach myself to better take care of Merlin. Diets need to be rich in Vitamin A and this is what the regular vet told me when I took Pretty in that late afternoon (the avian vet was closed).

 

Birds can not pick up your virus but you can pick up certain types from them. So you didn't get your bird sick. One way we can is through our salvia if we are kissing them on the beak all the time or feeding them with our mouths (like if you put a piece of bread there and they eat it) or if you bit an apple and then offered to them.

 

I have no idea what time zone you are in but if you can't be seen today by the avian vet ask whom he can refer to see your bird ASAP because when they are like this they go down very quick and you may not have 24 hours to wait.

try putting a wet toel on his cage so the air has more moisture... i heard that should help

good luck.

Thanks for all the replies. Lukie seemed to perk up a bit this afternoon but an hour ago he started to vomit and then went to his cage to sleep. He never sleeps in his cage. I can see that he feels awful. He is still fluffed up and we have had the heating on all day. He doesn't like his cage covered, unfortunately. I feel so helpless, as I now have to wait till morning to see the vet. I am so worried that he won't last the night. I will continue to keep the room very warm all night and will keep checking up on him.

 

Elly, Lukie does have a mainly seed diet. I didn't know about the vitamin A. He has been off fresh food for a while now and will only eat a little parsley. I thought that they added the necessary vitamins to the bird seed. He eats Trill and it says on the box that it contains the essential vitamins. I live in England and the time here is 21:54 so I will just have to wait till morning to see the vet.

 

What can the vet do if it is a virus? Are they able to treat him? I just wish Lukie was tame and I could cuddle him and keep him warm and let him know how much he is loved. This is so hard.

 

Luv

Vonn xxx

It is very important to remember that a budgie on an all-seed diet is not getting the nutrition he/she needs in order to live a long, healthy life. Feeding your budgie a large variety of healthy foods can increase its life span and reduce the risks of common health issues such as lipomas (fatty tumors). No seed mix or pellet is a "complete diet" (despite what many will say on the package) so it's vital that you give your bird a good, varied diet.

 

Ideal Diet ? Your budgie's diet should consist of roughly 30% pellets, 30% seeds, and 30% fresh foods like healthy fruits and vegetables. Treats should be given sparingly and make up only about 10% of what your budgie eats. Make sure that the seed mix you buy doesn't contain many sunflower or safflower seeds as these are especially fattening. Pellets should not contain artificial colors/dyes. Wash fruits and vegetables thoroughly before feeding them to your bird as pesticides are harmful to them. Buying organic is ideal.

 

Other Foods - Along with the foods mentioned above, there are cooked foods that you can also offer your budgie such as Beak Appetitand Crazy Corn. Organic wheatgrass is another very healthy food you can offer but should only be given about once a week.

 

Water: Your budgie's water should be changed every day (as often as needed each day) to prevent the growth of harmful bacteria.

 

Cuttlefish Bone: Helps keep your budgie's beak in good condition and they also provide your budgie with calcium.

 

Never allow your budgie to have alcohol, avocados, apple seeds, or chocolate as these are toxic to budgies. Birds have trouble digesting dairy products so steer clear of these as well. Read: Unsafe Foods

 

For recipes contributed by our forum members click here AND Visit BBC Food and Nutrition Forum

 

Last update: 2007-04-12 19:30

Author: eterri

 

This in our FAQ along with other information about diets. I have a article all about Vitamin A and keeping the immunine system healthy if you are interested PM me.

 

I pray your little one makes it.

 

The ads that say provides all essentials is just advertising it is not true.

 

The avian vet may give him Baytril that is usually the general treatment. During the visit the vet should do a gram stain, fecal test, exam him and feel his keelbone, and weight him if he feels he can make it through the exam. If he is too weak they may not do all this.

It is very important to remember that a budgie on an all-seed diet is not getting the nutrition he/she needs in order to live a long, healthy life. Feeding your budgie a large variety of healthy foods can increase its life span and reduce the risks of common health issues such as lipomas (fatty tumors). No seed mix or pellet is a "complete diet" (despite what many will say on the package) so it's vital that you give your bird a good, varied diet.

 

Ideal Diet ? Your budgie's diet should consist of roughly 30% pellets, 30% seeds, and 30% fresh foods like healthy fruits and vegetables. Treats should be given sparingly and make up only about 10% of what your budgie eats. Make sure that the seed mix you buy doesn't contain many sunflower or safflower seeds as these are especially fattening. Pellets should not contain artificial colors/dyes. Wash fruits and vegetables thoroughly before feeding them to your bird as pesticides are harmful to them. Buying organic is ideal.

 

Other Foods - Along with the foods mentioned above, there are cooked foods that you can also offer your budgie such as Beak Appetitand Crazy Corn. Organic wheatgrass is another very healthy food you can offer but should only be given about once a week.

 

Water: Your budgie's water should be changed every day (as often as needed each day) to prevent the growth of harmful bacteria.

 

Cuttlefish Bone: Helps keep your budgie's beak in good condition and they also provide your budgie with calcium.

 

Never allow your budgie to have alcohol, avocados, apple seeds, or chocolate as these are toxic to budgies. Birds have trouble digesting dairy products so steer clear of these as well. Read: Unsafe Foods

 

For recipes contributed by our forum members click here AND Visit BBC Food and Nutrition Forum

 

Last update: 2007-04-12 19:30

Author: eterri

 

This in our FAQ along with other information about diets. I have a article all about Vitamin A and keeping the immunine system healthy if you are interested PM me.

 

I pray your little one makes it.

 

The ads that say provides all essentials is just advertising it is not true.

 

The avian vet may give him Baytril that is usually the general treatment. During the visit the vet should do a gram stain, fecal test, exam him and feel his keelbone, and weight him if he feels he can make it through the exam. If he is too weak they may not do all this.

 

 

 

Thanks so much for this, Elly, I am going to pm you now.

 

Luv

 

Vonn

Hi Vonn, Just keep your little one warm until the morning when you can get him to the vet. They have a lot of medicines up their sleeve to treat whatever is wrong with Lukie. As far as the wet towel suggestion goes, I personally wouldn't do that, that could make him worse. If you think the air requires more moisture use a humidifier or steam from hot water in the bathroom.

 

Where I live, due to our import laws, it is very hard to get seed or pellets not grown or made here. Most foodstuffs like seed that comes into the state has to be irradiated, killing off the seed so it can't be grown. Obviously not good to feed to the birds, if you can't sprout it, don't feed it!

 

So seed is more expensive than the rest of Australia and pellets are ridiculously overpriced. I, like most breeders in WA, feed my budgies a high quality breeders mix, lots of fresh vegetables and use suppliments to ensure that the birds get everything that they need nutritionally. I do not feed pellets at all.

 

 

Feathers.

Hi Vonn, Just keep your little one warm until the morning when you can get him to the vet. They have a lot of medicines up their sleeve to treat whatever is wrong with Lukie. As far as the wet towel suggestion goes, I personally wouldn't do that, that could make him worse. If you think the air requires more moisture use a humidifier or steam from hot water in the bathroom.

 

Where I live, due to our import laws, it is very hard to get seed or pellets not grown or made here. Most foodstuffs like seed that comes into the state has to be irradiated, killing off the seed so it can't be grown. Obviously not good to feed to the birds, if you can't sprout it, don't feed it!

 

So seed is more expensive than the rest of Australia and pellets are ridiculously overpriced. I, like most breeders in WA, feed my budgies a high quality breeders mix, lots of fresh vegetables and use suppliments to ensure that the birds get everything that they need nutritionally. I do not feed pellets at all.

 

 

Feathers.

 

I totally agree with Feathers here

Hi feathers

 

Thanks for your reply. After a sleepless night (for me! - Lukie slept very well) By the morning Lukie had developed diarrhoea. We took him to the vet first thing. The vet said it was either a bacterial or fungal infection and probably caused by deficienties! I was so upset by this. He said that Lukie is picking out the millet in the seed and not eating anything else, apart from the odd nibble at a vegetable/fruit. He said that this causes all sorts of deficiencies, digestive problems and makes him vulnerable to illness. He put a tube into Lukie's crop and took a sample to send for analysis. We will know the results next week. He gave Lukie an antibiotic injection and a highly nutrition feed straight into his tummy (..I think - we had to wait in the waiting room so I didn't see him giving it to him) He said I must not change his diet yet as it will be stressful and he cannot have any further stress until he is completely well again. Once he is well, the vet suggests giving him his Trill in the morning and evening and for the rest of the day only leave Harrisons pellets out for him to eat. I must also continue putting out fruit and veg. in the hope that he will try them again. He used to like them but now only eats tiny pieces of parsley! The vet has given me an antibiotic to put in his water for 10 days. I just hope Lukie will drink it. I must keep a close watch and see if he improves. He said the Lukie should be much better by the end of today. He is a lot better - not quite so fluffed up and he hasn't got diarrhoea anymore. He is quite grumpy though and gets cross easily (eg. if a draw the curtain in the evening he squawks!) and this is not like him at all. The whole episode has been really stressful for him and me - I really didn't think he was going to make it through the night.

 

I was very interested to hear about the seeds being irradiated. I didn't know this. Please could you tell me what seed you feed your birds and where I can get it from. I don't mind ordering it from abroad as long as Lukie gets proper nutrition. Lukie just hates the pellets. Any other advice would be greatly appreciated, feathers

How would you go about changing Lukies diet, feathers, taking into account his fussiness and his willingness to starve himself if he doesn't get his Trill? I didn't realise that Trill had so much millet in it. I did realise that Lukie was only eating certain seeds, but didn't realise it was just the different types of millet seeds that he was eating! The funny thing is that Lukie is not all that keen on millet sprays that I have been hanging up on his playgym.! Do you give your birds extra vitamins?

 

Elly, the vet said you were quite right about the Vitamin A deficiency and he is sure Lukie is suffering from this at the moment. I feel so bad about all this - I should not have been so uninformed about feeding. I hope you got my PM? I bought some of the foods to cook that you mentioned.

 

Thanks everyone for you advice and support. I will let you know how Lukie progresses.

 

Luv

 

Vonn xxx

Vonn, I felt the same say about Pretty when I though what could I have done more. I knew the knowledge partially but I didn't realize the importance. I thought I was doing everything right but I wasn't.

 

Pellets if you can get them really need to be fed. Do your research and work on conversion it is yes a slow process but worth it.

 

Here are some information I pulled off of BBC for you:

 

by eterri:

Someone in another group recommended this book and I honestly can't say enough good things about it. I haven't even read it thoroughly but just flipping through the pages made me want to skip work just to sit at home and read it. It is VERY detailed and provides information on symptoms of a poor diet, anatomy of birds, nutritional charts, etc. I think it's must-have for any bird owner as it gives you a lot of the information necessary to decide what diet is best for your bird and how to spot problems if they arise. Once I've finished it I'll try to update this with a proper review. As of now, this is my opinion upon skimming it. It's very good, lots of great pictures, and easy to understand.

 

It's published by Barron's, the title is Feeding Your Pet Bird, and the ISBN is 0-8120-1521-5

The author is Petra M. Burgmann, DVM

 

by eterri

Homemade Healthy Budgie Grain/Seed Mix

I know on parrot_lovers people have talked about making their own seed/grain mix by getting stuff at Whole Foods or similar stores. Here's a recipe for such a mix...

 

Make your own Budgie grain/seed mix:

1 part Quinoa

1 part hulled yellow Millet

1 part safflower seed

1 part Canary Seed

1 part thistle seed

1 part red proso

1 part white proso

2 parts oat groats

1 part amaranth

1 part flax seed

 

Mix them all together and there you go. Happy and very HEALTHY budgies. Now this, incombination with a "Bouquet Salade" wired or clipped daily inside their house.....you have provided an EXCELLENT budgie diet.

-Gloria at Whitewings Farm

 

I'll add that budgies should get equal portions of a good seed mix and a good pellet as well as healthy veggies (high in vitamin A). Legumes are great to offer and there are many cooked mixes on the market now. Wheatgrass is another very nutritious food that you can offer a few times a week. Basically, they need a large variety of healthy foods in order to get everything they need. Feeding budgies properly is no simple matter (unfortunately).

Here is the whole link http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index....wtopic=7533&hl=

 

The book is exellent, do a search in the food and nutrition section many of your questions have been answered by what people do. Read the Harrison Manual I posted it is excellent I have it in print.

 

Please don't feel bad...he knows you love him and you wouldn't be here asking questions, taking him to the vet etc...if you didn't. You are an excellent budgie owner.

Hiya Vonn, I can fully appreciate how scared you must have been through all this, but please do not beat yourself up because you didn't realise he was missing important elements in his food. The problems lies with the lack of information that is given by pet stores when people buy their pets. Unfortunately there are a lot of people who are just interested in the money.

 

For the next 10 days don't change anything, just feed him his normal seed, and don't give him fruit or vegetables. If you give him fruit and vegetables, he will be able to get moisture from his food and won't need to drink his medicated water. So seed and medicated water is all he gets for 10 days.

 

Once he is better then you can start to change his diet. Introduce other vegetables, especially dark leafy vegetables; dark lettuces (not the round iceberg type - that give them sloppy poos), chinese greens like bok choy, brocolli, grated carrot, corn. Cut it into tiny bite sized pieces that he can pick at. If he isn't interested try sprinkling some seed over it so that he realises it is food. If he still doesn't eat it keep on trying. Try larger pieces, try pieces sticking through the bars of his cage, but do persist with it.

 

As I said, pellets aren't really an option here in WA, so I use suppliments instead to ensure that my budgies get all the vitamins and minerals they need. I am not sure what brands you have available to you, but they are there as England is the leader in breeding exhibition budgerigars. A good multi vitamin and a calcium suppliment would be good to use.

 

However, it sounds like you do have decent pellet available to you. Make sure that they are as natural as possible and contain a lot of vitamins and minerals and steer away from coloured pellets. They are coloured to make them look pretty for you, but the dyes are not the best thing for the birds. You need to try to introduce Lukie slowly. A lot of times this information on how to get birds to eat pellets is written on the pack.

 

You usually need to introduce them by making them up into a 'mush' to start with, putting in water and mixing it up. Slowly, as Lukie starts to show interest and starts eating the food use less and less water. Eventually he will realise that it is a good food source.

 

The vet is right, budgies usually eat in the morning and then in the evening for their 'main meals' before settling down for the night. So taking out the seed in the afternoon is a good idea, but make sure that you put the seed back in when you cover him up for the night, so that if he is taking his time to start on the pellet mix he won't starve.

 

The key is to keep on trying, Vonn. He wont change his eating habits overnight, but if you keep on trying, he will eventually . In the meantime, if you are worried about deficiencies, use some suppliments like I mentioned before.

 

*hugz* to you and Lukie,

 

 

Feathers.

When you get the okay from the vet here is a good way to start to convert and feathers has givin you excellent advice.

 

How to convert to a new diet: This will be a gradual process and will take a few days or up to several months to switch over. Don't get discouraged if one brand is not accepted, birds are much like children and have similar likes and dislikes as far as taste and texture. Below are some helpful hints on how to covern your pet over.

 

Try crushing pellets to a sand like texture and place over the current diet. Your pet will have to sift through the new diet before finding the old diet and will start developing a "taste for the pellets.

Mix the crushed pellets into any soft foods/tablefoods that your pet enjoys

After you see some interest in the new diet actual pellets can be introduced

Always try to keep trace of weight during diet changes. If you can't do this at home then watch for any major decreases in droppings, which may indicate the bird is not eating well. If you see this you may have to revert back a step for a short-time.

NEVER TRY TO CONVERT "COLD TURKEY" BY TRYING TO FORCE THE NEW DIET. Most birds don't know that pellets are food and my refuse to eat them and could potentially starve themselves.

Hi feathers

 

Thanks for all this info. I am so pleased you told me about the fresh veg and fruit as I was going to give him some tonight! Harrisons is organic and not coloured. Elly has just told me that she crushes her pellets and puts them over the seed, then they cannot pick the Harrisons out and throw it on the floor! I think this is an excellent idea. I did try making a mush of the pellets but Lukie wouldn't even look at it! He really is a determined little bird! What is the best way to give Lukie vitamins and minerals? Are there any particularly good brands of vitamins and minerals? Sorry about all the questions! Do you give your birds nuts? Lukie only eats his veg if they are clipped in a 'bulldog' stationery clip and hung from the perch above!! He won't go near a bowl, which I would much prefer to use. Is there any way I could make him change to a bowl. He is using the plastic tube feeders that came with the cage and I don't like them. I would much prefer ceramic or stainless steel bowls. Any ideas would be appreciated.

 

Thanks a million.

 

Luv

 

Vonn

Hi feathers

 

Thanks for all this info. I am so pleased you told me about the fresh veg and fruit as I was going to give him some tonight! Harrisons is organic and not coloured. Elly has just told me that she crushes her pellets and puts them over the seed, then they cannot pick the Harrisons out and throw it on the floor! I think this is an excellent idea. I did try making a mush of the pellets but Lukie wouldn't even look at it! He really is a determined little bird! What is the best way to give Lukie vitamins and minerals? Are there any particularly good brands of vitamins and minerals? Sorry about all the questions! Do you give your birds nuts? Lukie only eats his veg if they are clipped in a 'bulldog' stationery clip and hung from the perch above!! He won't go near a bowl, which I would much prefer to use. Is there any way I could make him change to a bowl. He is using the plastic tube feeders that came with the cage and I don't like them. I would much prefer ceramic or stainless steel bowls. Any ideas would be appreciated.

 

Thanks a million.

 

Luv

 

Vonn

 

I pm'd you back

Harrison's is the best from what I understand that is what Merlin is on.

Yep I crush them put them right over anything he is eating and I even dip his brocolli in it .

Luke loves millet so you can start by chopping it up, putting it in a bowl and putting a small piece of millet spray on the food it will show him that the plate is not going to hurt him that is why he doesn't go by it. When you have established that you can then sprinkle the millet in the veggies/fruits a GREAT way to get them start eating. Once he starts eating from the bowl on a regular basis seed, pellets or veggies then you can take the side feeders away. Everything is gradual budgies will starve themselves so do it gradually.

 

 

 

Another thing that I started doing is I take the cuttlebone and shave a little of it on top too because neither of my boys ever chewed on cuttlebones.

 

As for the vitamins in the water and such I heard because they don't drink much water that it is not the best way to give it to them (everyone is different though).

 

A vitamin block or mineral block my boys don't do, even seed treats like the honey ones they didn't chew at. ODD huh...I was told I need to get a female to teach them the ropes (Laughing out loud).

 

But millet CRAZED for it just like Luke.

Hi Elly

 

Thanks for all these tips - they are such a help to me! Once he is better, I will try your idea for getting him used to bowls. I think they are far more hygienic and a lot easier to keep clean. I won't be able to put the cooked food in a tubular feeder, so he HAS to get used to bowls. I will be patient and not give up, now that you have told me how long it can take. I didn't realise that you had to wait so long and gave up after a few weeks. Just wish I had known all these things - you have been a great help to me. He does like to chew on fruit and seed sticks but doesn't eat much of it - most of it ends up on the floor. He also doesn't chew the mineral block, but loves the cuttlebone. One thing I wanted to know, how often should you replace the cuttlebone and are you supposed to wash it regularly? You are probably horrified at how little I know.

 

Thanks so much, Elly,

 

Luv

 

Vonn xxx

 

PS: I got your PM and have replied.

The cuttlebone I keep in there and shave it until it is gone you don't need to wash it because it will absorb the water and dissolved so just keep it higher where they will not poo on it .

 

Your welcome I hope I have helped and always ask , I don't mind.

:ausb: Glad that Lukie has been checked out and all is going better, what wonderful advice you have been given!

So glad your little one is okay now Vonn, nothing worse than having to wait to get your little buddy checked out cause they are so delicate ! I have to put mine on a diet cause he is overweight which can also lead to complications, I have to give him french white millet a teaspoon 2 times a day and greens, I am finding it hard to find the frecnh white millet so am giving him a teaspoon of trill instead (the one with all the good stuff in it) but now he is off his bok choy ... i think he is bored with it ... he likes snow pea sprouts and a little brocolli, but the little bugger is getting fussy now, I have to look into these pellets you are all talking about tho .... seems the pet stores that sell budgies have no clue half the time and it makes u wonder how well do they treat them

Hi Vonn, If Lukie likes his veg clipped to the cage, that is great. As long as he is eating the vegetables is all that matters. Elly's advice on changing over to pellets is fantastic, as she is doing this with Merlin as well, so she knows what it is like to get them to change over.

 

It is also great that Lukie chews on his cuttlebone, so he is probably getting a good supply of calcium. As long as it is up high and not getting pooped on, it does not need to be washed. If it is a little dirty, you can try to shave the dirty area off.

 

Are there any particularly good brands of vitamins and minerals?

 

I am unsure what brands are available in the UK. Here in Australia, Vetafarm and Dr Marshalls suppliments are used a lot. Most are put into their water, but they are also sometimes crop fed and I sometimes put them into the oats that I feed my birds as that is a good way to make sure they are getting them.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about it, unless it is taking a long time for Lukie to get used to eating pellets.

 

 

Feathers.

Hi everyone

 

Thanks so much for all these replies! You have no idea just how much all this support has meant to me over the past few days.

 

I have had some really excellent advice, haven't I, Phoebe. I have been printing it all out. Lukie is doing well, and today he isn't so irritable so things are getting better with each new day. Phew!!

 

I hope you succeed with the diet, MissHurley. It must be difficult to cut down his food. I'd hate it to have to do that, but as you say it is not good for him to be overweight. Lukie is actually a very lean bird according to the vet but he feels it is due to the fact that he is so active and flies about a lot. He is not a cage bird - he has always hated being in a cage. He uses his cage as a diner but not for much else. He loves his playgym which is about 5' tall and he spends his days dashing about from one level to the other playing with his toys. He regularly flies about the room, too. I would like him to put on a little weight. I know what you are going through with the veg. - Lukie is terribly fussy and quite determined too! You and I will just have to keep trying to get them to eat their veg.

 

Feathers, thanks for the names of the vitamins. I will take your advice and wait and see if he can do without them. Thanks again for all your help, too.

 

Luv

 

Vonn xx

Glad Lukie is feeling ever so much better!

Good to hear that he is better :rip: everyday is another acheivement....don't give up.