Well, not a nightmare yet, but sometimes they're definitely a bad dream. We want to figure out the best way of handling their obnoxious behavior.

 

We got Cupid and Psyche a few weeks ago. We caught them mating at the pet store! We were entranced by their courting. They were SOOO cute together and it was obvious they loved each other. We didn't want them to be split up and thought that their mating could be a fun hobby. I have to admit it was a bit of an impulse buy. We kind of regret it now, but I'm determined to take care of them anyway, and try to do what's best for them because we took on the responsibility of caring for them and I'm going to do it to the best of my ability.

 

While talking to the pet store people (one of which breeded finches for a while) when trying to decide if we were gonna take these guys home, we decided a nest box wasn't necessary cuz we were told they'd nest right in the bedding of the cage. On the way home, Psyche laid an egg! It was very soft and broken. A bunch of reading I did told me about their laying habits and we expected another egg, but there haven't been any. All of the reading suggested a nest box. We decided to wait with it, in part because we're kind of hesitant after reading about how hard breeding is on the female and I want to be sure their healthy and all that good stuff first.

 

They are at least 6 months old, and they came from a bin-o-budgies, so they're not very tame at all. I've been wanting to take them to the vet to get a clean bill of health and talk to them about breeding and stuff, but they're so wild I'm worried that the trip might stress them out too much. Their cage is rather large for transporting them, and now that the weather is below freezing, I'm also concerned about the cold. I have no clue how we'd get them into a smaller transport cage without freaking them out too much.

 

I've read a bunch of different taming suggestions, including the ones on budgietalk.com (I tried to do my homework before posting here) and I've had an animal behavior class and have done a bunch of dog training stuff. I also was able to handtrain my brother's parakeet in a weekend. I've come to the conclusion that I should focus on working with Cupid, the tamer one and Psyche should eventually follow. I've been putting my hand in the cage and just leaving it there, getting them used to a hand not being a scary thing. I've held up millet for them and they've both eaten from it and Cupid has even once put a foot on my thumb in the process. Its been slow going but they no longer completely freak when I put my hand in the cage or even bring it towards them. They mostly just move away calmly now. Psyche has started moving up into her favorite corner when I come towards the cage though. I guess at least she's not throwing herself against the walls anymore.

 

A few questions I have regarding taming:

 

Should they be separated while I work on taming Cupid, or can they remain in the same cage and i just work with him while she's around?

 

The cage door squeaks and rattles when I move it and this seems to make them more nervous than my hand. Any suggestions?

 

I've been concerned that they're not getting enough exercise and think they might be happier if they're allowed out of their cage now and then. Should I wait until they're hand tame? I've read that they'll fly around and eventually find their way back to their cage and they shouldn't be chased home. This makes me think it might be okay to let them out now, but I'm not quite sure this would be the best thing to do.

 

I have many more questions as Psyche's behavior has changed since she's been home for a while now. However, I'll leave it at this for a start and continue later. I feel bad for the length of this post, however i know that the more info I can give, the better help I can get.

 

Thanks!!

Let's first go over the breeding and egg laying. First they are way to young to be breeding. The reason she probably laid one egg and that is it is because she is too young and was not getting the best nutrition needed for a breeding budgie. We don't have a bin-o-budgies but from I have heard on this forum they are not a very good place to purchase (but doesn't matter now) because now we have to help you here today. If you are looking at breeding first it is not just a "throw together thing" it should be planned out as much as you can and researched so you can handle all these little bumps in the road. Again doesn't matter now you are here and we can help you out . Remove the nesting box, don't let these 2 breeding - you will need to try and alter this behavior. By covering them up early and making sure they get at least 12 hours of darkness, don't have their cage by any running water and make sure you start them on a good diet of seed, pellets (if you chose), veggies, egg food, fruit etc.. Many tips in the food section even how to cook for them . While you are working on this and getting them nice and healthy it is time for you to start your breeding researc which can start here by asking questions as you are, reading breeding books and even joining a local budgie club.

 

Then when they are between 15-16 months old you can decide if breeding is the right thing. You will need to make sure you have everything in place in case you have to hand rear which can happen with with first time parents, you have all the food they need plus any supplements for calcium and always make sure you have a cuttlebone even now around, know if you are going to keep the babies and if not do you have a good plan on adopting them out. I know you will get much more advice on this topic .

 

As for the vet that is an excellent idea and make sure it is a registered bird vet and it will not stress them out too much. Put them in a small cage, take out the perch and cover them up and take them in for a clean bill of health . Keep the car warmed up before you go and then make sure you have a heavy cover on the cage. They should be okay.

 

You have only had them for a couple week? It can take months to tame a budgie and that is not meant to sound like oh no what did I do. I got Pretty from a pet store and it took me 9 months before he started to talk and acknowledge my existence. 2 can be more difficult to train but that is okay, keep up with it don't give up. With my 2 I always work with the one that is willing to work with me the other one follow suit. On terms of taming, how tame do you want them? They may not get that tame since they have been on their own for so long with other budgies and you will have to accept that for who they are .

 

 

Should they be separated while I work on taming Cupid, or can they remain in the same cage and i just work with him while she's around? They can remain in the same cage and in fact 1 will take the lead and the other will follow.

 

The cage door squeaks and rattles when I move it and this seems to make them more nervous than my hand. Any suggestions? Other then take them out which is not a good option I am not sure maybe you can tie it back while your hand in the cage?

 

I've been concerned that they're not getting enough exercise and think they might be happier if they're allowed out of their cage now and then. Should I wait until they're hand tame? I've read that they'll fly around and eventually find their way back to their cage and they shouldn't be chased home. This makes me think it might be okay to let them out now, but I'm not quite sure this would be the best thing to do. I would personally wait until they are at least dowel trained which means if they fly away to the highest point which MOST do you can get them down with a long dowel stick because you are right you don't want to chase them. I would also make sure when you let them out to do it is a small room so they don't fly into wall. Personal choice you may think about wing clipping there are pros and cons and you can read for yourself Many will do 1 wing clip to tame them down and then they can be flighted. Both of mine were clipped when I got them and I let them both fly now and it has worked well.

 

I have many more questions as Psyche's behavior has changed since she's been home for a while now. However, I'll leave it at this for a start and continue later. I feel bad for the length of this post, however i know that the more info I can give, the better help I can get. Don't feel bad, we appreciate your questions we were all once there before new to budgies so we have many great members that have wonderful suggestions.

 

Thanks!! Your Welcome

 

 

One more point also I forgot to point out if you got them from the same store they very well could be sibling or part of the same family. In that case you don't want them to breed at all. Food for thought. When they get budgies they usually get them from the same supplier. So if you decide to breed them in the future I would suggest you get different budgie of breeding age. Note they do not have to look like each other to be related with many different mutations that are recessive (or hidden - which means not visually showing). Example: 2 kids from the same parents one could have brown hair and brown eyes and the other one could have blue eyes and red or blond hair. I did want to throw that in there

I think you are wonderful taking in al this reading and information to better care for your birds now before the issue becomes too big to handle.

 

Sperate or keep together: This is up to you, many state and I agree that I can be easier to tame a bird on it's own but separating these two now would mean you would have to work through the break up period which is around a week. It seems to me you are doing well with them together if cupid is already willing to put a foot on your hand for food.

 

Cage door: Maybe put a bit of oil on where it rubs to make it move easier.

 

Exercise: This can come in many forms from playing with toys in the cage and running over different types of perches in the cage to flying around a room. If you wish to let them out at the stage they are now use a small room and check for hazards such as windows and mirrors. Sometimes for the first while this new freedom is stressful to the birds.

 

Breeding: as you have learn pet shop worker are not all that clued in one what is needed for different birds. Finches do make their own nest from leaves and grasses but budgies and other parrots (from Australia at lest) use hollow branches in tall trees. The nest box we give acts like that branch. Psyche had found a spot she was happy as a nesting site in the pet shop and picked a mate. You have since removed her from that spot and so stopped her cycle of egg lying. Make sure her belly or vent area isn't swollen from a held egg. The fact the shell as soft means she hasn't a lot of calcium in her body to form strong shelled eggs. I would think that means she also doesn't have a lot of vitamins and minerals in her body that is also needed for healthy bubs and parents.

 

Have they got a cuttle bone, an iodine bell? Do they eat fruit and veggies?

 

 

edit to add - lovey and myself seem to have posted at the same time so forgive us if we have stated the same information.

Edited December 1, 200618 yr by Nerwen

Lovey and Nerwen covered everything really well so I'll just add a few things. I noticed that you also have another budgie which you've had for a while? Make sure that the new ones are kept in a separate room for at least thirty days so that you can monitor their health. Diseases/illness can spread from one budgie to another very easy so it's important to always follow quarantine when you get a new bird.

 

Don't work on taming just yet, follow lovey's advice for getting these two little ones out of breeding mode (or preventing them from getting back into it) right now. You mentioned that the egg was soft and seemed to break easily? This is a sure-fire sign that they haven't been getting a good nutritional diet and that's the other thing you want to concentrate on right now. Not getting enough calcium can cause a hen to become egg bound/have softer eggs. Fresh healthy veggies should be a big part of their diet daily. I'd recommend a high quality seed mix (one example is the budgie mix from Newsong Organics ) rather than the stuff you see at the pet store. Sprouts are great to feed too and if you're interested I can link you to an article on how to sprout for birds.

 

I would have to highly discourage breeding these birds in this situation because there is a high likelyhood of them being related to each other. Breeding not only carries a lot of general responsibility but there is a high level of moral responsibility involved. Once you learn more about budgies and breeding, I think you'll find that it's quite complex in a lot of ways. You may or may not wish to pursue it after you've learned more. It can be expensive, time consuming, and emotionally draining. Finding homes for baby budgies is incredibly easy. Finding GOOD homes for any budgie is incredibly difficult! No matter what route you choose, there are people here who can help you. It's just always better to go into breeding with a good grip on what it entails.

 

The biggest question you should ask yourself right now (as far as breeding goes) is "Why do I want to do this?" Is it going to be feasible as far as time, space, and money goes? (It will cost far more to breed than to keep pets and even if you sell the chicks you will spend more on them than what is returned).

 

Taming will be a very gradual, very slow process. As lovey said, it's unlikely that these birds are going to ever be incredibly tame due to them being together and being a bit older. They've obviously bonded to each other already so that's a huge hurdle for any budgie owner to jump. With a lot of work, I feel that almost any budgie can be taken to at least a slightly interactive level. Either way, they're amazing birds to watch and own even when they aren't very tame.

 

As far as exercise goes, I agree that you should wait not just until they're tamer but until this egg laying issue is taken care of and they're pronounced healthy. How big is their cage? For a pair of birds that are skittish and will need a long time to tame, it's best to get a much larger cage than you would probably think of getting otherwise. They can get plenty of exercise that way even if they can't come out for a fly.

 

Feel free to share as many questions/comments as you need to!

Edited December 1, 200618 yr by eterri

I didn't know there was a food section here! I'll have to check it out...

 

We don't have a nesting box in with them yet. I bought one thinking it might help some of Psyche's issues, but its sitting next to the cage, not available to her yet. I'll keep it that way for now, perhaps even not let it be in her sight anymore.

 

I was thinking that clipping them might help tame them and then allow the feathers to grow in full so that they can be full flighted like Baby. Of course, we didn't think of that till AFTER we got them home, after we declined the offer at the store to clip them. *L* Maybe I'll get it done at the vet.

 

I know that these guys aren't going to be as tame as Baby. They have already bonded to each other and they haven't grown up with constant people interaction. I'd like them to be tame enough to take out of their cage without freaking out. Basically finger trained I guess. Or I suppose dowel trained if nothing else. Tame enough for them to be happy and safe.

 

I should get a dowel to work on training with them so that they can leave their cage safely. It might even help transferring them to a smaller cage for a trip to the vet.

 

My husband rigged a door holder for Baby's cage so that it can be held open. I'll have to have him do it for these guys too so the door is only noisy once when I go to work with them. Would it also work to try to desensitize them to the noise? Rattle it around a little and not do anything with them?

 

Wow... as far as not breeding them, that opens a whole new batch of questions I have. Since they've already had sex at least once, how do you get them to stop? Oh poo... what a mess we've gotten ourselves into! Which brings up another thing I like about this forum. From what I've read, people don't seem to be too judgemental or condescending when mistakes are made. Its great!

 

oh gee.. and now I see there are two more posts... I was just responding to lovey at this point and I've got to go!

(Laughing out loud) we are here to help

 

the noise will only scare them they may get used it as your hand but making it louder or doing more of it will just scare them more

 

keep the nest box out of site until you decide to breed & they are of the right age

 

a bird shop may be able to clip them or a pet shop that has experience with birds and clipping - take them to a bird vet for a clip - I have noticed that when people take them to a regular vet they can do a chop up job if they don't know how

 

Enjoy the forums

Yeah, pet stores are notorious for bad clips. I don't even go into how I was taught to do it when I worked for one!

 

Hope to hear more from you and about your birds!

Sorry its taken so long to get reply to everything. Its been a busy weekend.

 

For starters, they have a cuttle bone and there is dried fruit in their seed mix as well as different herbs. I know fresh is better, but I would guess dried is better than nothing. For a while when I brought them home I would give them a little bit of scrambled eggs with the eggshells every day, but I haven't been doing that lately. Their food also has pellets mixed in it. I supplement this with a stress formula food as well. What is an iodine bell?

 

Once I tried making sprouts from some of their seed, but I messed it up cuz the seeds got rather slimy and only a few sprouted. I'll have to check out the food section for more info on it (one of our books has directions for making sprouts).

 

After talking about it, we have decided not to breed these guys. Yeah, they'd be old enough in a year, but if Psyche (I keep typing Psycho! *L*) doesn't have quite the most desirable temperment, it wouldn't be good to pass her genes on. And we totally didn't consider they're most likely related! So we're just going to focus on making them nice birdies and try not to let them breed.

 

Do we need to do more than covering their cage for 12 hours a day to prevent them from being too amorous? How will we be able to tell if they're getting in the mood? Will we need to separate them? And if we do, would it be best to get them more friends?

 

Their cage is 12.5" deep, 16" high and 25" long.

For starters, they have a cuttle bone and there is dried fruit in their seed mix as well as different herbs. I know fresh is better, but I would guess dried is better than nothing.

Actually, relying on what is in the seed mix might as well be nothing, in most cases. Most budgies only pick around and eat what they prefer so you never know how much of which part of the mix they're getting. They're most likely going for the millet before they get around to even nibbling at the veggies. It takes a long time to convert budgies to fresh foods but we can help you with this when you decide to give it a shot. It's very important for them.

 

What is an iodine bell?

It's very much like a cuttle bone except I'm pretty sure in most places here it's called a mineral block.

 

Once I tried making sprouts from some of their seed, but I messed it up cuz the seeds got rather slimy and only a few sprouted.

It sounds like they were beginning to get moldy, how long did you wait for them to germinate? Even more importantly, the fact that only a few seeds sprouted shows that the mix you're feeding them is very low quality. It means that many of the seeds in their mix were dead and that means they're pretty much worthless for nutrition even when dry. A good seed mix will sprout, that's one great way of judging if the mix you feed is of decent quality. What seeds are included in your mix?

 

After talking about it, we have decided not to breed these guys.

It's great to hear that you're just going to concentrate on making these guys companions. It's a lot less complicated, that's for sure!

 

Do we need to do more than covering their cage for 12 hours a day to prevent them from being too amorous? How will we be able to tell if they're getting in the mood? Will we need to separate them? And if we do, would it be best to get them more friends?

Another good thing to do is rearrange their toys and perches often. If you do a weekly clean, rearrange them every week after cleaning. If they start getting nesty you might notice the male courting the female by bobbing his head and feeding her which could be followed by actual mating. I wouldn't worry too much about the mutual feeding but if you do witness them mating, it might be a good idea to rearrange things more often and make sure their seed dishes aren't big enough for the hen to nest in. You shouldn't have to separate them but if the female lays eggs, that could be necessary. I'll have to say that as far as getting them friends if they get separated, we can cross that bridge if we come to it. It'll come down to just how persistant the female is about laying and a friend could just encourage thing, even a same-sex friend. Also keep in mind that not all budgies get along...getting friends opens a whole new can of worms.

 

Their cage is 12.5" deep, 16" high and 25" long.

The length is great for two budgies so I'm sure they'll be okay. The depth is quite narrow though so it might be a good idea to upgrade in the future.

They have a lot of fun hopping back and forth from one end of their cage to the other from perch to perch.

 

When I change their seed, I look at what's left and sometimes it seems like the fruit pieces are gone. Of course, they could have just pushed it out of the bowl or there weren't any in there in the first place... *L*

 

Here's the ingredients of their food:

millet, canary grass seed, oat groats, wheat niger seed, safflower, flax seed, hulled sesame seed, rape seed, calcium carbonate, peanut pieces, rice hulled sunflower, dehydrated carrots, caraway seed, ground corn, buckwheat, melon seed, dried papaya, fennel seed, anise seed, coconut lettuce seed, dehulled soybean meal, ground wheat, dehydrated spinach, wheat middlings, dehydrated apples, dicalcium phosphate, soy oil, salt, ddried whole egg, dried beet pulp, wheat germ meal, etc etc etc *L* THat's about half of it, but the rest is mostly vitamins and stuff like that.

 

I suppose with such a huge variety, they're not getting some of everything every day in the two scoops I give them.

 

Do they need both a mineral block and a cuttlebone?

 

I remember reading about how the seeds you feed them should be sproutable if they're actually nutritious. My directions said to cover them in water for 24 hours in a covered container. I think i went for more like a day and a half before I remembered to go to the next step. I'm also not sure if they got enough sunlight afterwards, cuz my husband moved the dish next to their cage. He thought that the light from their light would be good enough cuz its full spectrum. Does the shape of the container you're growing them in also make a difference? I'd guess there's an optimum airflow or something....

 

I'm glad there's something more to do to prevent breeding. Moving toys and stuff around sounds like something simple easy and fun, and it will probably help with their shyness too. It won't stress them out too much, will it?

 

I was rather concerned that its going to be tough to prevent them from breeding and that we'd have to separate them and find new friends for them, which yeah, I figured wouldn't be a simple thing and could end up with us having more birds than our capacity allows for. I won't worry about it for now though. I'm so glad that everyone is giving us so many good, easy ideas!

 

Thank you!!