Again, you've completely misunderstood. I am talking about the fact that there is a CHANCE this gene will be passed. Not once have I said that it's a 100% possibility. There is a *chance*, that is what I have been saying.

 

I have not been the one swinging this discussion around. You're the one who brought up how different show budgies and breeding are to having pet budgies.

 

I have seen you respond to MANY topics in which you clearly didn't have a firm understanding of the subject matter. From now on, when I see this, I will tell you exactly what you've told me here.

Terri I think you better reread this topic.

 

You asked me.

Does that not anger you, that the breeder would continue to breed these birds even if the chances are low? It just seems incredibly wrong to me.

 

I answered

This is the world of show budgies not pet budgies. The risk of a feather duster out ways the possibility of an outstanding Show bird on the bench.

That had nothing to do with me.

 

Then you took off.

I'm a bit thrown off by the wording here, but I'm gathering that you mean getting an outstanding show bird is worth breeding a feather duster every now and then?

 

As far as show birds and pet birds being two different worlds? That is 100% absolutely and positively a selfish human perspective. The reality is that these are the same species, the same birds. They need the same type of care to thrive as those birds we call pets. The only difference is that one group (the breeding birds) should be helping to regain the things that have been lost over the years through hapless breeding and for the most part, that doesn't happen. It saddens me to no end. I understand that many people do this as a "hobby" but I don't agree with treating animals like material objects because you want a prize for outstanding show budgie on the bench. I'm so tired of seeing people say "I love my birds" and then watching them talk about trading them off for something better or risking the health of an entire line for the chance at that one outstanding bird on the bench. Some of you guys REALLY need to practice and learn the phrase "I kinda like my budgies, they're real pretty..." because you don't trade off something you hold dear if you can help it. You don't risk the lives of things that you hold dear if there is any way around it. You don't pawn one (or possibly many more than one) off in the hopes that another might turn out to be outstanding. That is when you like the budgies. Maybe you LOVE the hobby but some of you only LIKE the birds.

 

The breeder isn't involved in this forum.

Do you say

I have not been the one swinging this discussion around. You're the one who brought up how different show budgies and breeding are to having pet budgies.

thats rubbish and you know it.

 

You just waited for some half baked chance to have a go at those involved in Breeding or Show and that was all it took.

 

I said that

I will be breeding from the sybling because I don't know if the "Gene" or "Condition" is also with it. Untill I breed it I won't know. I'll let you know in 2008. I won't be breeding it for 12 months.

 

you said

One of the biggest problems with that is that you might not get a feather duster from the first clutch. Maybe not from the second. You might not get a feather duster from this budgie at all! Some other breeder who buys one of the chicks from this clutch might end up with a feather duster. And hey, he won't know if it has the gene so he has to breed it to find out too... ick. Why even risk it?

 

Well what do you say to those people reading this forum that have Brothers,, Sisters, Fathers or mothers that have disabilities. Do you say Iam sorry but the chances are that might give that disability to your children or to their children..... so you carn't start a family you might pass it on to them.

Edited November 13, 200618 yr by daz

Terri I think you better reread this topic.

 

You asked me.

Does that not anger you, that the breeder would continue to breed these birds even if the chances are low? It just seems incredibly wrong to me.

 

I answered

This is the world of show budgies not pet budgies. The risk of a feather duster out ways the possibility of an outstanding Show bird on the bench.

That had nothing to do with me.

 

Then you took off.

 

*************************************

 

Because this Beautiful unfortunate chick has a normal sister she shouldn't have the chance to see if she could have normal chicks her self. If will be telling everyone that sees or wants to buy her chicks of her brother.

 

To the first bit - i took that to mean that those views were yours also, you have to admit it sounds terrible worded like that.

 

To the second bit - birds don't crave children and a family like humans so that's hardly a fair comparrison. My mum also has a genetic disability and not once did i take offence to the comments made here by anyone in that respect and i would never associate the two, birds and humans are hardly something that can be compared in my opinion - except in the sense that a life is a life, regardless of species, i love my birds like they're family.

hey everyone,

 

my view on this situation is that the baby budgie does not seem to be showing signs of illness (judging by the video) although if it is unable to perch, that shows that there is a problem present.

now people are saying that the budgie may be infact simply very buff, but buff budgies are generally more sluggish than non-buff.

what we are missing in this discussion is that we are focusing more on genetics rather than suspicious Diseases. for diseases can strike at any time as i'm sure many of you out there may have experienced. because the budgie is a pied it makes it hard to observe the feather colour changes that can be caused by

PB&FAD (Psittacine Beak and Feather Disease) also because the budgies is young and only a day younger than its sibling it could mean that it received the "last" so to speak serving from the parents.

it should also be noted that the parents may have a bit of the mottle variety in their genes.

i believe that it would be worth having a simple blood test by an Avian Veterinarian and that will give the inconclusive results. if the results for any disease are negative then great, but the results should also tell wether the budgie has the buff gene.

hope that this helps,

 

Sco-tie

Thanks Sco-tie, The chick is being examed tomorrow. Depending on the visual we will have bloods and washes done. I'll let you know the out come.

 

Also welcome to the forum. It is rarely this Fiesty. I am curious. you wouldn't be with a club in Adelaide would you?

Heya Scotie, fianally your first post!

I just wanted to say the reason I believe the comparison between humans and budgies is a fair one is because a point was made that we look after the birds and therefore have resposibility. So we can look after birds, but don't we also look after are fellow humans? So why not help them out and get rid of diabilities? Let's cull some humans then. If all animals are equal and deserve to be helped out with this kind of thing.(by the way humans are a type of animal)

 

No one can get rid of genetic mutations as soon as they can I might change my mind!

 

Daz I hope the examination goes well!

Carri

Good point carri,

no one can completly get rid of genitic mutations unless they completly get rid of the species affected.

 

in response to your question Daz: yes i am a member of the Avicultural Society of South Australia and also a member of the budgerigar society. although i don't attend meetings because they are generally to far away from me!

 

hope the results can clear everything up and give us new insight to the mysterys of heath problems.

 

good luck Daz

 

Sco-tie

Daz hope all goes well tomorrow for Fluffy. Will wait for your post with the results. All the best.

Good point carri,

no one can completly get rid of genitic mutations unless they completly get rid of the species affected.

 

in response to your question Daz: yes i am a member of the Avicultural Society of South Australia and also a member of the budgerigar society. although i don't attend meetings because they are generally to far away from me!

 

hope the results can clear everything up and give us new insight to the mysterys of heath problems.

 

good luck Daz

 

Sco-tie

 

Thanks Sco-tie

 

Why i ask about the club is that we have missed placed our main Administrator. Adam and are trying to find him. I have been given a very good lead tonight to try tomorrow. I though you might know him.

Best wishes for fluffy!!! By the way I just love the name! My old cat was called fluffy... oops anyway let us know what the outcome is. And give fluffy a cuddle from me because he is such a handsome little fellow

No, sorry Daz i do not know where you may have misplace your Administrator,

how exactly do you misplace a person?

good luck trying to find Adam and goodluck with fluffy

 

Sco-tie

Well Adam is the main Administrator of this forum and also the main web site.

Unfortunatly his house was hit by lightning in the middle of the year. Blew his computer system. He was gone for some time. After fixing it came back and then disappeared back in August. We have been trying to contact him to see what is wrong, but with out luck.

 

We will keep trying

that's too bad about Adam, luckily hes okay after the lightning.

hope he comes back im sure he's surely missed.

 

Sco-tie

look forward to the update on Fluffy Daz

Good thing we have such a strong community runs even without the lead admin person .

It's hard for me to believe that you guys are actually putting these birds on the same level as humans when you also go on to buy, trade, and sell them. Why try to compare them to humans on this subject but treat them like objects on others?

 

Add me to the list of people with genetic disease in my immediate family. This doesn't mean I think people should stop breeding but it's a VASTLY different world in comparison to breeding budgies. If you truly believe that they should be put at the same level as people in that regard, then I hope you plan on bringing them in out of the aviary to live in your house as well. (Point being, you cannot compare budgies and people.)

 

Honestly, I have trouble taking someone who makes that comparison seriously when, not long ago, they told me that getting a $1000 bird outweighed the possibility of getting some feather dusters. That's like saying a couple should keep breeding (and selling the kids with issues) because eventually, they might get the kid they actually wanted. I know you don't think of it that way, but I'm just pointing out the lack of logic in those comparisons.

 

I know I'm not going to change your mind, Daz and usually that's where I would shut up. But I also don't appreciate being told that I know pretty much nothing and have no right to participate in this discussion. I know right from wrong and I know more than you think. I've lost two budgies to genetic disease from careless breeding and I know of others here who have lost more than that. Not for one second will I sit back and allow someone to try and justify breeding genetically unsound birds. No responsible breeder would do something like that.

 

In response to Sco-tie, I agree and I did mention early on that the bird needs to see an avian vet because it just doesn't look quite right in general. But Daz prefers to have a fellow breeder see the bird first. Honestly, I believe it should be bloodtested for disease and other issues first thing. But that's not my choice to make.

Edited November 1, 200618 yr by eterri

It's hard for me to believe that you guys are actually putting these birds on the same level as humans when you also go on to buy, trade, and sell them. Why try to compare them to humans on this subject but treat them like objects on others?

 

It because we love them and care for them, against what you may think.

 

Honestly, I have trouble taking someone who makes that comparison seriously when, not long ago, they told me that getting a $1000 bird outweighed the possibility of getting some feather dusters. That's like saying a couple should keep breeding (and selling the kids with issues) because eventually, they might get the kid they actually wanted. I know you don't think of it that way, but I'm just pointing out the lack of logic in those comparisons.

 

I said that some breeder will take the risk. Now don't put me into that category!

Edited November 1, 200618 yr by daz

So far you've said that:

 

a ) Getting a valuable, expensive, $1000+ budgie is worth passing along the feather duster gene to others

 

b ) Show budgie breeding is comparable to human breeding but an entirely different world to breeding pet budgies

 

c ) You buy, sell and trade them because you love and care for them (not that I ever said that was wrong, just pointing out that you wouldn't buy, sell, and trade humans, hence why it's hardly comparable)

 

I said that some breeder will take the risk. Now don't put me into that category!

You're the one who put yourself in that category. It was YOUR decision to take the risk.

Edited November 1, 200618 yr by eterri

Terri I and many othes have had enought of this. If you can't leave it be.

Edited November 13, 200618 yr by daz

Final Results