Well little Phinnegan was off to the vet this morning. I thought maybe he had scaly face. I don't know if you recall but when I purchased him he had a spot on his eye. I thought it might have been discharge from a previous cold or something. At times it seemed to be going away and then at other times it came back. I was reading up on scaly face and found some pics with of budgies with it on the eyes. So I thought - well maybe. I didn't want it to spread to the others so figured a trip to the vet was warranted. Well $80 later I'm still not sure what it is. The vet didn't think scaly face but did a scraping to see if there were mites. I should hear back about that later today. She feels it is more likely a blocked eye duct. She did some squeezing (can you imagine on a little bird) to try and clear it. I couldn't watch - it looked painful. So Finn didn't get the ivermectin.

 

Regarding mites, vet said all animals have bugs that they host at all times and when their immune system gets down (stress or whatever), they can become troublesome. It made me think about whether or not treating asymptomatic birds is really warranted. I just treated all of my birds with Scatt when I thought that Finnegan might have scaly face. I didn't treat Finn assuming he would be getting a shot of Ivermectin today and didn't want to OD him. But now I wonder if it was worth the stress I put them under. I did use the time to weigh them all and clip their wings. I know some on here treat incoming birds with ivermectin regardless. Just wondering if it is really necessary because my vet gave me the impression that they can get it regardless, even when new birds aren't introduced. Just wondering what others think about this.

 

Here's a picture of Finn's eye.

Edited October 21, 200618 yr by Shawna

First I am glad he is okay.

 

This is a debatable topic just like wing clipping I presume .

 

Here is how I feel. It has been proven that drugs (medicine) can have an affect on a persons/animals system period. Drugs that higher an immune system can also lower ones system also by killing the good bacteria as well as the bad making a super infection.

 

I remember when I had my rabbit and he was sick it was very hard to treat him because any antibiotic would kill the good bacteria and they need it to digest all the veggies they eat. (it was a catch 22).

 

Now not all animals are that suspectable but I presume birds are pretty much the same when it comes to be delicate.

 

I personally wouldn't treat any of my animals unless it was treating something not just because. I wonder if those who treat don't use it sometimes as a reason not to quarentine.

 

A full quaratine for a bird is actually 3 full months we only do 30 days (most of us) we hope.

 

I see it more harmful to treat for something that is NOT there BUT let me put it out there that I don't have a big aviary, I probably don't have the experience that some birds owners do but I do have the experience through my own animals, working in an MD's office and even taking care of my father after his transplanet.

 

Drugs are not always good but at times they are not always bad. We take facts and opinions and decide for ourselves.

 

I typed this fast sorry for misspellings or grammer -- hope it helps a bit.

aw poor little soul that looks sore! i hope he makes a speedy recovery!

An avian vet suggested I treat incoming birds for scalyface regardless of symptoms as a deterrent. Common sense prevailed and I only treat them for scaly face if I see signs now. I have a couple of birds that developed scaly face just last week and they have been with me for a year. So the theory of dormant conditions on or in budgies, I do believe. Many illnesses or aggravating conditions come out under stress conditions. When I caught and moved a great number of my birds they weren't really well for weeks. Now they have settled in all is fine. They have never looked healthier. Also when I caught them I found many of my breeders had gotten FAT so they went on a diet of better seed and upped the quantity of the fruit and vegies. I have removed some perches and ropes so they can fly more around the aviary too.

Edited October 22, 200618 yr by Bubbles

:ausb: Poor Finnegan, that's a nasty looking owey around his eye, hope the visit to vet makes a firm diagnosis and treatment. Don't feel bad about the $$, I too was at the vet today and my bill was double yours, my lovie Mango has epilepsy.

Sorry to hear about your Mango. Will she be on meds now to help? It must be scary when she has a seizure?

 

PS. No word from the vet. Grrr. They were supposed to call on Saturday afternoon. I want to know so what it might be. Finn is missing his cage mates. And if it isn't contagious I'd like to put him back soon.

That's too bad you didn't hear back about Finnegan, the waiting is the worst part. Yes, Mango will have to be on anti-seizure meds but they have to wait until his blood test returns showing how his liver is, thanks for asking! For both of us, Monday can't come soon enough! (and the seizure was quite scary, I had seen him do it briefly before but thought he was just regurgitating to feed Phoebe. This time he was foaming at the beak (no food matter), it lasted a long time and I wiped his beak with tissue four times and he still is really spaced out and quiet, he just had a little spell a couple of hours ago). Hope a little ointment is all that Finnegan needs.

Edited October 23, 200618 yr by Phoebe

Aww Poebe I'm sorry to hear about Mango

 

Shawna hope you hear soon about your little one and what the go is. It's a strange sore.

Well the vet finally called. I guess it is some type of tumer. Papiloma? I was in a bit of shock so I didn't write the name down. I'm going to ask her to email me the details. She said surgery was an option but it would likely grow back. And unfortunately he will probably develop others - other places are mouth, stomach, etc. There are definately no mites.

 

I can't invest in the surgery (or multiple surgeries) if I value my marriage. If it were something that could be fixed and never return I probably would - hubby would get over it.

 

The bird is absolutely fine otherwise so my hope is that it is slow growing, or doesn't grow anymore, that he doesn't get others, and that he has a decent long life. I'll give him the best of foods, a lovely big home, lots of cage mates, lots of love.

 

So not the best of news.

Here is some information I dug up. Did the vet tell you to isolate him now? Since they can be contagious through sexual contact and they think possible droppings, along with preening or grooming.

http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww55eiv.htm

Thanks for this Lovey. This isn't the one. She mentioned this too and said she didn't think this was it. I asked her if I could put him back in with the others and she said yes.

okay, because that is what pulled up, I would call her back and get the exact name so you can do some research on it at least . Glad to hear it is NOT this.

 

also I wouldn't consider breeding him because it could be passed to the babies through genetics (but I know you probably thought of that) just wanted to throw that out for others reading this post.

:hap: My friend had a papilloma excised from her breast, fortunately it is classified as a benign tumour. Hopefully Finnegan won't grow anymore in other places and this one won't grow any bigger. Watchful waiting is all you can do I guess, not great news but considering the alternatives, and the fact it can't be passed along to your flock, is somewhat reassuring. I am sure Finnegan will continue to have a happy and loving life with your family and other birds.

I called the vet. She wasn't in but I did get the info from the assistant there. She said that they feel it is a papilloma and not the papovavirus because that usually is fatal for young birds. From quick reading I think it is the one that causes french moult?

 

I hope it is benign like Phoebe says. He seems thrilled to be back with the others. I'm just going to keep an eye on him.

pap·il·lo·ma (pp-lm) KEY

 

NOUN:

pl. pap·il·lo·mas or pap·il·lo·ma·ta (-m-t) KEY

A small benign epithelial tumor, such as a wart, consisting of an overgrowth of cells on a core of smooth connective tissue.

 

I assume this is probably what the vet believes it is yes?

Yes, let us hope that is what is it (and sounds like it) rather than the viral variety, hopefully Shawna will get clarification from her vet tomorrow. Glad Finnegan is happy to be back with the gang!