chookbreeder9

What if Bert Newton was the auctioneer?

aw come on GB! Catalogues are on the BCV website. Cheers PT

Hi Everybody, Just a note to let you know that the Geelong Club is holding their auction this Monday at the Geelong Showgrounds - Lifestyle Pavilion. There are some good breeders represented including Alan Rowe, Ian Hunter and Cec Gearing (I hear he sends his best to the east!!!). Starts around 10.00 and viewing from 9.00. Special guest auctioneer - George Clooney (that should get the ladies in!!!) Cheers PT

I agree with Kaz, even though he displays some opaline characteristics, doesn't mean he carrys the opaline gene. Only test mating will confirm if he is carrying opaline or not. PT

Normals can display varying degrees of opalesence so there is no reason why a spangle can't. I would say it is a normal spangle. Cheers PT

520 entries as of midnight Friday. Will be interesting to see what we get on the day. Cheers PT

Hi All, Our annual Diploma Show is on this Saturday - 13th February. It will be held at the Rockbank Community Hall, Leakes Rd Rockbank (just off the Western Hwy). Entries by phone (0353674815) between 7.00pm and 9.00pm Thursday 11th and Friday 12th, otherwise on the day before 9.30am. Judging commences at 10.00am sharp. Quality prizes including show cages and bags of seed. Adults, Young Birds and UBCs. Judges - James Bader, Rod Turnbull, Ian Furness and Brett Martin (A). The weather forcast is looking good so hope to see you there. Cheers PT

If the hen is a mauve, then they (the chicks) are more than likely mauve. There is no grey gene in the pairing so can't be grey as it is dominant. PT

A feather cyst is just another fault (like a narrow head, yellow feather, short mask, etc) and should be managed as such. I use birds with feather cysts and pair them accordingly. Good luck to you if you think you have birds of sufficient quality such that you can cull the ones with feather cysts, no tails, etc. Splatty - send her down to me - I'll use her! "-) Cheers PT

We are talking about budgies here aren't we?!?!?!

Hi Splat, I would just monitor her and stick with the antibiotics. I things don't change, take her to the vet on Monday. Cheers PT

Agree, I have had one very similar (bred from a pair acquired from Heathrow!). Sent it to the vet, had its sinuses washed, was on the mend, then just died. Apparently the infection pushes out through the eye socket. Stick with the antibiotics. Good luck. PT

Then I would hazzard a guess that they too are carrying cinnamon. Maybe but not necessarily. My albinos and clearbodies are one line. There is no cinnamon in that line and I occaisionally get birds with faint brown markings - possibly from the clearbody influence. Cheers PT

Yep, I am an ape man! Because I smell like one after I have mowed the lawn. You can believe whatever you want - as long as I can too!

Hi Kaz, I feed the same mix in the flights as the breeding cage. The only place I have wastage is the breeding cage depending on the preference of the individual pair. If you don't want the wastage you can feed the same seeds in different feeders, if you can be bothered... Canary is a one of the best sources of protein - about 15% vs 10% in millets. Oats is also reasonable (although variable) for protein - approx 12% but often higher. Sunflower is super - above 20%! Not sure I would drop the canary, but it is up to you. Cheers PT

Just to be different - I feed my birds hulled oats and grey stripe sunflower ad-lib all year round. Budgie blue is not a bad mix. I won 10 bags of it at our Diploma show and it was fine. I generally don't use it as we (our club) get our seed direct from a supplier by the pallet. Rule of thumb - 50% canary and 50% mixed millets, but lets face it - the birds eat what they want anyway! PT

I know I am not making this any better, but it will depend if it is a type 1 or 2 dark green. If it is type one you are more likely to get olives, if it is type 2 you are more likely to get mauves. The only way to find out is have a go! Cheers PT

Renee, This is a little bit of chicken and egg stuff. If you use a cobalt to a light green and produce dark green chicks, the dark factor will be on the same chromosome as the blue gene. More often than not, the dark factor gene will remain on that chromosome until crossing over takes place. This happens during meiosis when sperm and eggs are formed. Let's assume the dark green you have bred from your cobalt x light green paining is a cock. He will produce sperm that have: a. the blue allele and the dark factor b. the green allele and no dark factor c. a small amount of sperm that have the blue allele and no dark factor d. a small amount of sperm that have the green allele and the dark factor. c and d are the result of crossing over during meiosis. The chicks resulting from the d sperm will actually be type 1 dark greens because the dark factor has now crossed over and sits on the same chromosome as the green allele. However, you won't know that until you test mate them. This dark green split blue cock will also produce type 2 dark greens when paired to a light green as some of the offspring will inherit the dark factor and blue gene from the cock (the a sperm) and the green allele from the light green hen - giving you a visual dark green that will be type 2 . Unfortunately, most of the dark greens produced from this cock will be type 2. Hope this makes sense. Cheers PT

Olives are more likely to come from type 1 dark greens. The problem is, you can't physically tell the difference between a type one and type two. If your dark green has been bred from a mauve it will be a type 2 and the chances of breeding an olive from a type 2 is rather low. Type one dark greens are those where the green allele and the dark factor are linked and these tend to produce a higher proportion of olives. My advice is, (in the absence of knowing if your bird/birds are type 1 or 2) if you have a dark green bird, pair it to a light green or even better another dark green and just keep selecting out the dark green birds - you might even crack an olive from the dark green x dark green pairing. If there are not many dark greens among the progeny, then your dark factor birds are most likely to be type 2. On the other hand, if you get a higher proportion of dark greens then you most likely have type 1 and breeding olives shouldn't be that hard. Cheers PT

okay Linkage disequilibrium is the association of linked alleles (sometimes called a haplotype) in a ratio that is different (greater) to what you would expect given the allele frequencies at the loci in question. This is usually caused by the 2 alleles in question being in close proximity on the same chromosome and as such tend to get inherited as a pair (haplotype). Sometimes during meiosis this link is broken as the chromotids cross over between these alleles. It is this linkage that causes the skewed phenotypic outcomes associated with what Nubbly referred to as type one and type two dark greens. Type one dark greens are those where the dark factor is linked with the green allele and type 2 is where it is linked with the blue allele. Therefore type one dark greens that are split blue, when paired to skys will produce more dark greens and fewer cobalts and type 2 dark greens when paired to skys will tend to produce less dark greens and more cobalts. In my time breeding fallows (and Ian Hannington's experience as well) we have never bred a grey fallow, despite grey splits being frequently used. It appears that the grey factor and the fallow gene rarely get inherited together. The non grey factor (normal?) allele and the fallow allele appear to be in strong linkage disequilibrium. But try finding reference to that one in any book! It's a bit like Splat and her normal produced from a DF spangle. It's not the first time I have heard of that happening, although I have not experienced it. But it's genetically impossible - isn't it? We still have a lot to learn - even about blackeyes! "Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth" Marcus Aurelius (Roman Emperor) - very appropriate! PT

I was waiting for someone to mention the linkage disequilibrium that exists with the dark factor gene and I am very happy to have RIP take up the challenge and explain it rather than me. Or you can look it up in Taylor and Warner's book "Genetics for Budgerigar Breeders", chapter 4, page 30 - 36. And no Nubbly, the book doesn't acknowledge the existance of blackeyes - just dilutes! Cheers PT

okay Nubbly, when you sign up for Terry Martins yahoo group, the questions are: 1. Are the differences between blackeyes and dilutes simply caused by colour modifying genes and the phenotypes are the result of the combination of these colour modifiers and the dilute gene? 2. Are there more mutations operating at the dilute locus than are documented? I am not convinced, but happy to be! Cheers PT

The key bits from Alistair Home's article "The “buttercup” Yellow was well established before the importation of birds from England occurred in the 1990’s", and "Among the offspring of the imported birds Suffused birds appeared that were not pure Yellow, nor were they true Greywings." This to me indicates the presence of 2 seperate mutations rather than varying degrees of the same mutation. The dilute is as different to a greywing as it is to a blackeye. Therefore why would we accept that the dilute and greywing are different mutations and tha dilute and blackeye are at opposite extremes of the same mutation? From what I understand, Australian blackeyes are different to what are referred to as blackeyes in the UK and Europe. I am also told that like the fallows, the blackeye variety was not imported with the UK imports. Therefore they were bred up using the Australian stock and UK outcrosses. Maybe the true Australian blackeye does not exist in Europe? Therefore it does not get recognised in the literature. Maybe the greywing locus is at one of the so-called mutation hotspots where there are numerous alleles in operation, not all of which are documented? Cheers PT

not very coordinated mate - any names?? He makes me look like a dwarf! jf who else!

It's no mystery - the other diluted variety is called a blackeyed self!A bit more stuff found at http://www.anbc.iinet.net.au/downloads/C&a...0Budgerigar.pdf"The Yellow mutationThe existence of the yellow mutation causes the picture to become confused. The “buttercup” Yellow was well established before the importation of birds from England occurred in the 1990’s. Among the offspring of the imported birds Suffused birds appeared that were not pure Yellow, nor were they true Greywings. Breeders who bred excellent examples of these Suffused birds looked for classes in which they could be exhibited. The result was that some were shown as Black Eyed Self Colours and others were shown as Greywings. Their strength in type and size made them quite successful in spite of their poor varietal features.The Australian Standard includes recognition of two forms of Yellow and White- the Black Eyed Self Colour and the Suffused Yellow or White (which includes Grey Yellow and Grey White). This is recognition that many excellent Suffused birds are being bred and provides some protection for the breeders of the other varieties. The Suffused bird does not meet the Standard for either Black Eyed Self or Greywing and poses a threat to their integrity. We do not want to see the loss of the pure Yellow bird, nor do we wish to see dilution of the intensity of the colour and markings of Greywings."The question remains, is the blackeye the result of another allele at the "greywing" locus or is it just a dilute washed out by cinnamon? The fact that it was identified in Australia before the arrival of what we now know as dilutes tends to indicate to me that it is another variant at this already congested locus (it's a theory - not a fact).You can argue that the better examples of blackeyes are cinnamon. You can also argue that the better clearbodies and lacewings are opalines, but they don't have to be opaline to be a clearbody or lacewing. This debate started by claiming that all blackeyes are cinnamon dilutes. From what I can see the Cinnamon is optional.CheersPT Hi GB,That would be a dark eyed clear, not a blackeyed self. 2 different varieties.CheersPT