chookbreeder9

16mm perches are a joke. They appear to do the opposite to what they were intended - i.e. help those birds that have a tendency to throw their back toe(s) forward. From what I can see, birds that tend to do this seem to do it more in cages with the 16mm perches. Bring back 12mm perches. I am pleased I haven't changed my perches yet. More ill thought out "change for change sake" from the ANBC. Let's hope there are no more "brilliant ideas" coming out of the next meeting at Canberra. Cheers PT

Come on Kaz - read your questions again. There is a definite slant to them. A bit like a TV current affairs show. Not withstanding that, I agree with Heathrows request for some objective information not chinese whispers. For the record, I have had 12 birds go the Nationals. 5 did not breed on their return. 3 birds went to Rockhampton last year. The Grey Green and Fallow both died in the breeding cage although they did breed. The green has not filled an egg yet. Is this because they went to the Nationals? I think not! Only half of out birds breed at any point in time and I am sure we notice it more when the good ones don't breed. If a plane ride meant that a bird was less likely to breed then there would be no birds submitted for auctions by interstate breeders! With regard to the point about sending lesser birds from the family - the "I've got a better one at home" syndrome - all I can think of is wanker! No one in Victoria can afford to send a lesser one as it would be lucky to make the team given the level of competition. Cheers PT

Whilst the Ino gene and the opaline gene ore on the same chromosome, I am guessing that they are at different ends of it as they do seem to act independantly. I think the reason that most clearbodies you see are opaline is through breeding choice, not because of linkage. I've got plenty of normal clearbodies, but prefer opalines. Cheers PT

Well said Heathrow, I breed them to show and the Nationals is the big stage - nothing else counts. Our carers are among the best budgie people in the job. They won't risk transporting, let alone selecting birds that are of questionable health. It might be different in the "smaller" states. Transport has to be practical. We can't send 70 odd birds in individual cages and a breeding cage mnakes a great quarrantine when they get back. Why breed EXHIBITION budgies if you don't want to show them at the best show in the country???? Cheers PT

If it's who I think it is, then he had very good budgies before,and can easily cover the cost by himself. Yes will be interesting to see what emerges. Taz, I heard there are 2 past breeders returning to the hobby up your neck of the woods. Will be good for the club up there with the extra members. YEAH one is a past open breeder had good birds before be interested to see how he goes had a fair bit of help in the past Cheers TAZ D MACKA THANKS FOR THE INFO any idea (roughly) how many and what varities CHEERS TAZ D Hey Mr Devil, As the auctioneer I have a pretty good idea who purchased what. Bidder number 5 (no names) purchased 10 birds - mainly cinnamons, violets and rec pieds. Buyer number 6 purchased 18 birds mainly cinnamons, normals, Lutes & lacewings. Don't feel at liberty to say too much more. Maybe best to talk to those involved if you know them. Cheers PT

Splatty - maybe some things are better left unsaid. Cheers PT

If anybody thought the birds were **** then apart from being extremely disrespectful, I would have thought that they wouldn't know a budgie from a rabbit! I bet they (the critics) haven't won 6 classes at the Nationals or achieved even a fraction of what Ross has! You would not have found a better offering of lacewings, cleawings, greywings or lutinos. The cinnamons were very strong (I purchased 2) and there were some quality greens. A lot of Victoria's top breeders were there bidding and buying, not to mention the interstate visitors. Only 9 of Ross's birds were kept back to show on his behalf at the Young Bird Shield and these will sell at our (Melton) auction. An average of $308, a gross of over $70k and a top of $3100 pretty much says it all doesn't it? PT

Yep and nature sorts out the nuffies that result - the predators up the food chain need to eat something! PT

Some describe the sex linked mutations as recessive and a few describe them as dominant. When you consider a cock needs the gene to be present on both sex chromosomes to display the mutation, then I guess I will go with the recessive view. If crest was a lethat gene, why aren't they all dead? I have also heard it referred to as a lethal gene, but from what I have seen and have been told, they are proliific breeders. Again another hypothesis, but maybe when the mutation appeared it was loosely linked with a lethal gene? Over time this link has been broken through selection (the selection bit is easy if the lethal gene is present) and now it is not an issue. Happy to hear contrary views. Cheers PT Sorry, hope you can follow this - the quotey thingy didn't work

Makes perfect sense and the author is on the money. The only time where there may be an issue is when a mutation is linked through it's proximity on the chromosome to a lethal recessive defect. Only a hypothesesis, and it still means that the authors statements are correct with reference to the fact that colour mutations in themselves are not lethal. Interesting site. Cheers PT

id say. if only i were rich and over in oz.........sigh We can only hope!

Sounds like you bred a stargazer with a nervous problem and probably nothing to with them being related, or it could of being a throw back, a one off thing. Hi Splatty, The fact that it is a "stargazer" (asuming that it is a defect with a genetic basis which I am guessing it is) is more likely to be a result of mating related birds than anything else. Most defects are recessive simply because the dominant ones weed themselves out, especially if they are lethal. Cheers PT

Good to hear from you Heathrow. You are correct culling a nuffie budgie that has 3 or 4 okay siblings is no big deal. Losing a heifer calf potentially worth $1200 is a different story not to mention the effect of reduced fertlity and reduced milk production in the seemingly "normal" ones. You also have to consider the long term progress of the breed, When you reduce genetic variation (one of the consequences of inbreeding) you reduce the potential for gentic progress by making the population more homozygous. Inbreeding is a tool that needs to be used sensibly and judicously. Cheers PT

Hi Ino, It's good to see that people will be attending this conference. The producer day on the 5th should be a good day. I am going to the same conference and speaking on the Wednesday afternoon. When we evaluate inbreeding we ASSUME that the offspring in question have inherited 50% of the genes of both parents. The reality is that they (the brothers and sisters) have inherited 50% from both parents but it is not the same 50% from each parent. To say we are outcrossing is a stretch, however the level of inbreeding may not be as high as the conventional pedigree estimation of inbreeding suggests. Likewise as you point out, the mating of related individuals may not in certain circumstances, result in a high level of inbreeding although on average it will. Genomic technology as applied in the dairy industry is allowing us to identify with some degree of accuracy, what each animal has inherited from each parent. We (Genetics Australia) are working with the Dairy CRC to establish advanced mating programs that look at what chromosome segements have been inherited from the sire and what has been inherited from the dam allowing us to get a better handle on the actual level of inbreeding in an individual. The bottom line for budgies is, we do not have this sort of technology and therefore we need to rely on pedigrees. My mentor (one of the world's leading dairy geneticists) always reminded me that most organisms (including humans) carried between 2 and 5 lethal recessive genetic defects. The reason we don't marry our cousins or sisters is that they are more likely to carry the same defects. There is a fair chance that was has become a social more has been derived through a process of "trial and error" by our ancestors (you need to travel to the next valley to find a wife). The budgie job is no different. That dosen't mean that mating brother to sister or father to daughter won't work, however the chance of getting "nuffies" s greatly increased from these matings is greatly enhanced as is the chance of getting some crackers. By the way, inbreeding in all species leads to a reduction in vigour, longevity and fertility. Risk v reward - good luck! Cheers, PT

I would think there will be a wide range of birds to select from & if your lucky enough to buy,the right pairs,should be able to breed yourself,some good show Budgies. PS Ross will be sadly miss, by all that knew him. The catalogue is now on the website http://www.bcv.asn.au/Auction.htm . If you are looking for quality birds there are plenty on offer, especially Lacewings, Clearwings, Lutinos and Cinnamons. The auction is on the 8th of May. Cheers PT

Hi Devil, I will be selling them that day. Give me a ring if you need some eyes. Cheers PT

G'Day "Old Devil, Any Nat winners this year? Cheers PT

Hi Splatty, We had a cream coloured (ino?) sparrow that lived around our office for a few years. Haven't seen it for a while. Cheers PT

Hi Hezz, I use the good oil. Not sure if it does anything, but I still use it. I coat oats and sunflower in it and then mix the coated seeds with silverbeet, corn and carrot. Works for me. Cheers PT

Hi All, The Melton & District Diploma Show is on this Saturday at the Melton Community Hall. Please see the ad at http://www.bcv.asn.au/ShowCalendar11.htm for further details. Heathrow is one of the judges! Cheers PT

Yes, I would like a maid too! Maybe a French Maid that can clean aviaries and breeding cages!

Hi Splatty, We've got sh#t loads of them but they do not seem to be biting?!?! Better to use Avian insect liquidator from veta farm rather than peabeau. The fly spray might do more harm than the mozzies! Cheers PT

Hi All, Sorry to be a pedantic so-and-so, but crossing over and recombination are pretty much the same things. Recombination is the result of crossing over as opposed to the return to normality or the status quo. Your definition suggests that the chromosomes re-unite at the same locus (recombine) where the reality is that the chromosomes will cross over or "recombine" at a somewhat random point , albeit the further from the chromosomes centromere, the greater the chance of crossing over I believe. Rip you are on the money with your percentages and I would say that 1 in 12 hens from this mating being cinnamon opaline is a relatively common event when referrring to crossing over events. Hope this helps. Cheers PT You can get pedantic if you like, I do the same from time to time. I wasn't actually putting forward a defination as such rather trying to explain what happens which is really hard when you have try and do it all with words. You are correct the further away from the Centromere the likelyhood is increased of cross over. The words cross over and recombination, athough similar and in a broad sense mean the same thing, in fact are used quite differently. Crossing over generally refers to the first event whereby the genes leave their place of residence, recombination is the second event whereby they find there way back. Not in exactly the same place as wence it came but rather in the location to which it belong on another choromosome. If it is a sex chromosome involved it has to recombine with like chromosome and if it is say non sex linked it has to recombine with the chromosome eqivalent it came from i.e. if the gene left chromosome 12 then it must return to another chromosome 12. It cannot randomly pick another chromosome. There is a place for that particular sequence to reside. If genes randomly ended up anywhere on a chromosome scientists would not have been able to map the DNA of humans, drosophilia, horses, chickens just to name a few. No Probs. You are correct when you describe that each time crossing over occurs it should ideally happen at a point equivalent to where it came from. When I refer to it being a random event, I refer to each crossing over event happening at a random point, i.e. each time a chromotid crosses it happens at a different point , not the same point every time. I beg to differ about the usage of the word recombination, but that is not important as we appear to be on the same page and it is just semantics. Cheers PT

Hi All, Sorry to be a pedantic so-and-so, but crossing over and recombination are pretty much the same things. Recombination is the result of crossing over as opposed to the return to normality or the status quo. Your definition suggests that the chromosomes re-unite at the same locus (recombine) where the reality is that the chromosomes will cross over or "recombine" at a somewhat random point , albeit the further from the chromosomes centromere, the greater the chance of crossing over I believe. Rip you are on the money with your percentages and I would say that 1 in 12 hens from this mating being cinnamon opaline is a relatively common event when referrring to crossing over events. Hope this helps. Cheers PT

Still at Rockbank - 8.00pm!