Finnie

Welcome to the site! :flowers: I think Junior also looks like a hen

I guess if you live by the sword, you die by the sword :flowers:

Sorry about your back. Hope it gets better. Woke up to our first snowfall this morning.! :flowers:

Oh, good. That will save me some time. I'll worry about kidneys some other time :flowers: Thanks!

I remember reading that post, now Your cinnamon hen had pretty color. Sorry to hear about the hawk incident. :flowers:

okay. So for now, I won't worry about putting more ivermectin on anybody. At least now I have enough for 1,000 budgies, if I do need it later :flowers: I'm hoping better diet and excercise will help improve any nutrition related health issues she has. (My vitamin drops have vit A, Vit d3, and all the other stuff.) And now I will go learn more about Kidney problems, as well as liver problems. Thank you very much.

I truly do NOT think it will acchieve what you are hoping it will. Your choice. Oh, okay. I'm sure your are right. But I will just leave it until the next cage cleaning. I bought those perch covers when I was a newbie budgie owner, thinking they were necessary. Once I learned better, they have just been sitting in a drawer wasting space. At least now I've done something with them before I throw them out. I do plan to keep trimming Sorcha's beak myself. I figure a little bit each time, and I will eventually get it where it should be. (That is, unless whatever her problem is worsens the beak faster than I fix it. That is something I will have to keep an eye on.) Kaz, I'm assuming that if the new pictures showed scaley face, you would have said so? What do you think?

I was wondering if you could put up pictures of these birds, so we could see the intensity for ourselves? Plus RIP is good at distinguishing the different factors.

One of my hens is a paper chewer, too! And she already has a torn up spot below the nest box. It will be okay with me if she raises her clutch there, and I will try not to disturb them. But I think she is getting used to having the box hanging there, and I'm hopeful that when I open the door to it, she will use it. By the way, did both of your twins survive? That would be sweet!

Just having some sandpaper hung on some cage bars wouldn't hurt, though, would it? It's just like having an extra toy- not like they have to stand on it all day. :flowers:

It's no mystery - the other diluted variety is called a blackeyed self!A bit more stuff found at http://www.anbc.iinet.net.au/downloads/C&a...0Budgerigar.pdf"The Yellow mutationThe existence of the yellow mutation causes the picture to become confused. The "buttercup" Yellow was well established before the importation of birds from England occurred in the 1990's. Among the offspring of the imported birds Suffused birds appeared that were not pure Yellow, nor were they true Greywings. Breeders who bred excellent examples of these Suffused birds looked for classes in which they could be exhibited. The result was that some were shown as Black Eyed Self Colours and others were shown as Greywings. Their strength in type and size made them quite successful in spite of their poor varietal features.The Australian Standard includes recognition of two forms of Yellow and White- the Black Eyed Self Colour and the Suffused Yellow or White (which includes Grey Yellow and Grey White). This is recognition that many excellent Suffused birds are being bred and provides some protection for the breeders of the other varieties. The Suffused bird does not meet the Standard for either Black Eyed Self or Greywing and poses a threat to their integrity. We do not want to see the loss of the pure Yellow bird, nor do we wish to see dilution of the intensity of the colour and markings of Greywings."The question remains, is the blackeye the result of another allele at the "greywing" locus or is it just a dilute washed out by cinnamon? The fact that it was identified in Australia before the arrival of what we now know as dilutes tends to indicate to me that it is another variant at this already congested locus (it's a theory - not a fact). This would seem to indicate that what we really have at this locus is: normal, greywing, clearwing, dilute, suffused, and black eyed self. It sounds like maybe a suffused is where there are no longer any wing markings, but still some body color, whereas a black eyed self loses the markings and the suffusion. If it was easier to find information about this, it would make it way less confusing! By the way, is there an order of dominance to these? This is SO reminiscent of the yellow face debate! Hi GB,That would be a dark eyed clear, not a blackeyed self. 2 different varieties.CheersPT GB, it's like "they" are keeping the black eyed self a secret. As far as solid yellow and white birds go, all I could ever find mentioned was albino/lutino, DEC and DF spangle. Apparently we can add Suffused and Black Eyed Self to the list.

I caught Sorcha up yesterday and trimmed her beak. (Just a tiny bit, I'll do some more every week until I think it's right.) I took the opportunity to get some better close up pictures while I was holding her. Before: And after: Not sure if this one is from before or after. It still looks pretty bad: And back in her cage after her ordeal. (Actually, I held her in a cloth, and she was calm the whole time. Never even flinched as the dogs do! :flowers: ) I used nail clippers first, and then the dremel tool that I use on the dogs. I could tell that the whole lower portion where I was clipping was dead dry material, so I had no worries about clipping there. But I'm not sure if I dare clip it back as far as is really going to be necessary. I think that next time I will only use the dremel, and work on shaping it as I go. In the meantime, I put some sandpaper perch covers over a couple of the cage bars, where she likes to hang out. Hopefully she will play with those and wear her beak down a little on her own. So, with better pictures, does anyone think it looks like scaley face?

Congratulations, Naomi. That really is cute!

Went and did a search for Budgerigar liver disease. It sounds like it is a result of obesity and lack of vitamin D3. Basically, the bird gets too fat, and doesn't get enough sunshine. As a result, the liver cells become replaced with fat cells, and then the liver function decreases. One of the symptoms (among many, including illness and eventual death) is an overgrown beak. If this is the case with Sorcha, then hopefully her improved living conditions and diet will help relieve the condition. But her beak will still need to be trimmed, though, because even if her liver improves, the beak won't just go back to normal. As far as scaley face goes, I've never been sure she had it. I just did the ivermectin in case. And I only tried it on 2 of them, because I was afraid I might poison them. That didn't happen, so if I need to do all four over again at once, I won't be so worried the next time. So, out of curiosity, if she had it when she came, and it got on the other 3 birds before I treated her, how long before I would start to see problems on their beaks? Because if I don't treat them, and they never get it, that might tell me that she never had it either. I guess I will have to do a search for scaley face, and learn more about that, too. I guess I was hoping someone could tell from her pictures a definite yes or no, and then I would not have to be in the dark about it anymore.

CONGRATULATIONS!!! Looks like you had a beautiful day for it! Best wishes for your life together!!

Looking way into the future but I reckon the above 2 would make a fantastic pairing for next year. She's got dark markings, great wings, shoulder, length and feather. He's got the top end, shoulder and feather. Both very nice. Good idea DARYL and he is pale where she is not. Does his paleness indicate that he may be dilute, rather than greywing? Don't think so...both parents are greywings. Three differing shades of blue in the nestbox. We shall see what comes of round two. I guess it's probably not likely that both parents are split for dilute. I don't know how people tell the difference. It's a good thing I don't have to worry about messing up anyone's show stock. I just lump them all in the same category and call them all "greywings". (That wouldn't be good for show breeders, would it?)

I've had this hen, Sorcha, for over a month now. She could come out of quarantine, but I'm not so sure about her beak. I've been trying and trying to get a good clear shot to post here for opinions, but I am no good with a camera. So I finally decided to just put up the best I've got and hope it's good enough. When I first got her, I didn't notice it at first, but then later I saw that the tip of her beak seemed crusty. I thought it might be scaley face, so I went out and got some Ivermectin and put a couple of drops on the back of her neck. After about a week, her beak seemed slightly better, and she had perked up some. But I can't say whether it's from the meds, or if it's just because she is now living in a better environment than where I got her from. (She was living in a darkened room, and she seemed to squint a lot and be fluffed up a lot when she first got here.) Even though her beak seems to have improved a little, it's not like it was even really bad to begin with. I can still see that it looks a little rough at the tip, and it also seems to me like it's too long. (Compared to my other budgies beaks.) I've also been scrutinizing her feet, but I can't see anything unusual there. One other thing, she is in quarantine with 2 other birds from the same place, and Mystery, who was just unlucky enough to have to share his quarantine cage with them due to space limitations. Sorcha and Mystery have been treated with the ivermectin, the other 2 have not. I was planning to treat them only if it seemed neccessary. I'm not really sure how many times the ivermectin treatment needs to be applied, or how long it takes until they would be considered "clear". They are living upstairs, and have never been downstairs where the rest of my flock is, so I'm sure there has been no cross contamination. And there is no urgent need for them to join the others. They can stay in quarantine as long as they want to. (Or I want them to.) Sorry to be so wordy, but I figured better to supply as much info as possible in case it helps. Now for the pictures. Maybe I am being over anxious for nothing. If these aren't clear enough, maybe I can get my husband to help me, or try using a flash. Well, thanks to anyone who can help me. -Finnie

Looking way into the future but I reckon the above 2 would make a fantastic pairing for next year. She's got dark markings, great wings, shoulder, length and feather. He's got the top end, shoulder and feather. Both very nice. Good idea DARYL and he is pale where she is not. Does his paleness indicate that he may be dilute, rather than greywing?

Yeah, it's a lot different for a wild animal to eat something it killed (or found) than the domestic meat sources we have available to us. Even aside from potential diseases and parasites, there are antibiotics and hormones added. And the mad cow example just goes to show how important it is not to feed contaminated feed, whether you're feeding livestock or petstock. So in a way, Renee, it's all still on topic. (Except for Dave's morals... )

Thank you, both. I really hope they do better in their new accomodations. In my paper notebook, I have pages and pages of what I can expect from them. And I'm hoping that they will produce offspring which will show what they may be split for. For instance, I have a pet theory that Patrick (dark green dom pie) and Sean (sky violet opaline) might be brothers. So I'm hoping that Patrick will throw blue chicks with Finnie, and that there might be an opaline hen among them. This wouldn't prove they are brothers, but they cannot be if Patrick isn't split for both blue and opaline. Edit: Oh, wait, I take that back. Sean's parents could both be green/blue, and thus could produce a green/green son. But it would still seem more likely that Pat could be split blue.

Renee, I have found this article, which explains the order of dominance of the ino locus: click here

Well, if it helps her learn to take better pictures, then she can send it along to me, with some pointers. :rofl:

What, no flirting pictures? :rofl: :rofl:

Well, I have got my new breeding cages set up, I have gotten them used to a consistent feeding regimen, and they are all past their moult (Except one hen, but she's getting extra time to get over it.) So I guess I'll give this a second try. If I actually get any eggs this time, I will be so excited, that I will just have to start a real breeding journal!! :rofl: Here's my set up, and my 3 pairs: Pair 1: Patrick and Finnie- already in love (always have been) Pair 2: Bailey and Phoebe- newly dating, not so sure about each other yet Pair 3: Sean and Colleen- He thinks he has her under his thumb, but he's actually quite hen-pecked! :rofl: They will be having a 10 day waiting period before I open the doors to the nest boxes, so I can make sure of all eggs being fertilized properly. Also, Phoebe needs a while longer to get rid of her pin feathers, and she only just met Bailey, so she needs some time, anyway :rofl: . Seriously.

Not fixable. Oh, I'm so sorry for RIP :rofl: