Finnie

Thank you. We've been having a lot of fun following a theme of Irish names. We're starting to have to dig a little deeper!

I've been meaning to get some pictures up of the newer members of my flock. Getting good photos is a challenge for me, though. I think I have enough to make a start, I can put up 4 out of my 13 recent acquisitions. It all started with Donovan. Actually, it started with a couple of pretty birds I saw in the pet store, which got me to thinking I should wait until I found some spangles. So then I found Donovan. (I went back and got the pretty birds later! ) This is from when I first got him, and he had missing feathers due to being plucked in the nest box. He is going through his first moult, now, so here are some updated pictures: After I got Donovan, I scoured the city looking for other spangles. I was also looking for recessive pieds, and I picked up a few of those, but I couldn't find any more spangles anywhere. So even though I had some reservations about Donovan's breeder, I decided to go back there and buy his two nestmates. They are Kevin and Fiona: In this picture, Kevin has begun moulting, but Fiona hasn't started hers. Kevin's moult right now is at 8 weeks and counting. Donovan and Fiona have finally started moulting, but it just goes to show how much variation there can be even among nestmates born just days apart. (They are 5 months old this week.) They are doing a pretty good job growing new feathers over their plucked areas, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is always a visual disturbance there. More pictures of Kevin: And some more of Fiona: (on the right) That other hen in there with Fiona is Sorcha. She's the one who has the beak issues, and her own thread. She is the 4th and final bird that I bought from that same breeder. She was kind of an impulse purchase, which goes to show that it really is better to think about these things for a while first. I had wanted to buy the mother to the three nestmates, as she is a white DF Spangle. But she was on eggs again, and not for sale. The breeder really only wanted to sell her birds in pairs, and I didn't want to buy an extra bird, just to get one I wanted. But then she remembered about this hen whose mate had died a few months prior, so she was willing to sell her singly. When I heard that she was grey wing, I asked to see her, and when I saw that she was YF type 1 as well, that decided me. That was when my brain left my head and I forgot to check her for signs of ill health. Well, I have learned my lesson on that one! Oh, and I guess I should add what I think their mutations are. Donovan- Cobalt or Violet Spangle (Leaning toward violet, as he looks more like Fiona than Kevin.) Kevin- Sky Blue Spangle Fiona- Violet Grey Wing Spangle (Could possibly be clearwing or full body greywing, because her body color is really quite vibrant.) Sorcha- Goldenface/Yellowface Mutant I (combination) Cobalt Greywing Normal (Although she seems to have a violet blush to her neck there, so if anyone were to argue that she were sky-violet, I would concur.) I'm not real good at identifying cobalt, but she just seems too dark to be sky. I will add more of the other birds someday when I get decent pictures of them.

Latest update- Colleen is still holding at 7, Finnie has caught up to her, and Phoebe now has 4 I'm hoping that line on Phoebe's egg is not a crack. We don't think it is, but short of picking it up, we can't get a closer view.

They are really nice, Angelic. I love the names Santa and Mrs. Claws. But what if Aussie had come out of the hat? Would you have named her "Bossy"?

If you are trying to breed a certain color, and these two would make it, could you partner them with other birds, and then breed the children together? That would be cousin-cousin, which would be okay.

It is called sylmarin in English, too. I will look for capsules, then. I was under the impression it was a liquid and I would have to be very careful with the dose. Powder form sounds safer. I was also told that apple cider vinegar would help, too, since it has vitamins and helpful enzymes.

Thank you, Spooky. I have been told about the milk thistle, and I'm looking into finding it. I will also have to check about the amino acids, too then.

Boy do I feel really silly! :rofl: Sorry about that. And here I was trying to re-read it so I would understand it better. FAIL okay, so you had a pair that was together for a while, and you have split them up and put them with new partners, but they still seem to pine for each other? Have I got it now? If so, then yes, you might have better success putting them together, if they are already bonded. But you could still try to pair them the other way if that is what you prefer, but you would probably have to wait a long time for them to bond.

Congratulations, Summer! Very cute!

okay, so I've been studying the color patch information on those links, and I've learned a few things: It looks like all budgies have a basic violet colored cheek patch, which is then affected by the budgie's various factors and mutations. (Makes sense) The Grey Factor turns the violet to grey, which is then affected in the same way that the various factors and mutations would affect the violet. Dark and Violet factors have a darkening affect on the cheek patch color. The more dark or violet factors the bird has, the darker the cheek patch, until it can even look black. (Especially if it started out grey.) The following mutations have additional effects: Clearwing- Brightens the patch, as it does with body color. Greywing and Dilute- Lighten the patch, as they do with body color. BES and Suffused- Lightens the patch even more, so as to make it white with a pale suffusion of color. Again, just as these mutations affect the body color. (Assuming these are actual mutations- they're in the standard-but that is a different discussion!) Darkwing- Lightens the patch to pale violet. Lacewing- Reduces the patch to pale violet. Ino- Reduces the patch to white. DEC- Replaces the patch color with white All other pieds, including spangle- Replace all or part of the patch color with silvery-white. DF spangle- Replaces the whole patch with silvery-white. Now, this may seem obvious to all of you who already know your cheek patch colors and what they indicate. But to me, I was pleased to discover that there was an organized pattern to it, and not just a random chart of colors to memorize. Another way to look at it would be if you started with the color of the cheek patch, and then looked on a chart to see what mutations correspond with the color: COLOR : POSSIBLE MUTATIONS Grey, any shade: Bird has grey factor Violet, brighter than normal : Clearwing Violet, paler than normal : Greywing, Dilute, Lacewing or Darkwing White suffused with pale violet : BES or Suffused White : Ino or DEC Solid silvery-white : DF spangle Patched silvery-white : All other pieds Violet : Everything else This second way of listing it leaves a little confusion. For instance, I can't find any way to tell the difference between White and Silvery-White. And Violet is meant to include anything from blue to purple! I don't know if this will help any of the rest of you, but I am glad to have learned this, so I can add it to my tool kit for identifying budgie mutations! By the way, it goes without saying, of course, please help me to get this right if I have made errors and ommisions :rofl:

Good luck! I hope it goes well.

Hi Jeddo, as I was reading over your post, I realized that what you have done is to split up two boys who were great friends and put one of them in with an unfamiliar hen, and left the other one all alone, but nearby. Probably what is happening is that the two boys love and miss each other, and are trying to stay close through the wire. That would be why he's not interested in the hen in his cage. If you switched the boys, you would probably still have the same issue. Is there any way you can buy a 2nd hen, and keep them all together in one cage (with no nest box) until the two boys learn to bond with the new girls? Then you could split them up into pairs according to how they have paired up on their own. (Eventually the best buddy males will see the benefit of making friends with a girl ) Alternatively, if you want to be the one who decides which cock gets which hen, you could pair them separately, but keep the cages apart, so each cock eventually gives up and realizes the only friend he's gonna have is the new girl in with him. Another benefit of this is that it generally works better to have more than one pair of budgies breeding at the same time, which you can't do with 3 birds. As I see it, you really need a 4th budgie. Even a new cock would work, if you left the two bosom buddies alone together, and put the new cock with the new hen. (But then you would still have the problem of only one breeding pair.) Realize also, that all of this is going to take some time. You need to be patient, and in the meantime, you could be learning all about budgie breeding- there is a lot to know!

I think the picture is a bit misleading. In real life he has no blue at all. What shows as blue in the picture is actually olive too. Aah, okay. Then he must be green series

I kind of have the feeling that we go to all these lengths to do the best we can by our birds, but we really have no idea of what is going on at a microscopic level. I'm sure bleach kills stuff, but I am also sure that it leaves other stuff unaffected. With all the variation in how we dilute the bleach, or how well we apply it, or how long we leave it on, or how well we rinse it, or how we dry things, there is no real scientific way to prove how much we are actually removing or killing. This kind of goes for any kind of cleaner we use. Short of putting everything into an autoclave, we are fooling ourselves if we think we are sterilizing stuff. The best we can do is to clean stuff well, and hope that the birds will be immune to whatever we leave behind. And Macka is right, we all, humans and birds included, need to be exposed to everyday dirt and germs to build up our immune systems. The point of cleaning at all, I think, is to cut down on the amount of stuff that our birds have to fight off, helping them to fight it off better. And, of course, to hopefully prevent the dangerous germs from getting in. So whether you bleach every leaf, or just give the whole branch a cursory rinse off, I'm sure it all helps. I've always heard that sunlight is a good, natural "sterilizer". I let all kinds of things dry out in the sun after they are cleaned. And unless a bird happens to fly over and poop on it, I don't think there's much danger of it being recontaminated. I also think bleach is great. Sure, you don't want it so strong that you fumigate your birds, but I don't think it would hurt them if they incidentally lick dried bleach residue. (Sorry I'm so wordy and have so many opinions Just thought I'd jump in on this one )

Dave, if it were anyone else, I would not correct their spelling . But since you are a teacher, and we all want to help you be a better speller , I will give you a tip: there is no "o" in Dalmatian! (A good way to remember it is to compare it to an Australian, you wouldn't call yourself an Australion, would you?) Sorry, that is my little plug for Dalmatian lovers everywhere, it is the thing that bugs us most! By the way, Birdluv, before I got distracted by Dave's comment, I was going to say that I just LOVE Jasper's spots!! Reason for edit: correct my spelling.

I was kind of busy, yesterday (Happy New Year, everyone) so I finally have an update on the candling, and the number of eggs. Thursday, Dec. 31 a.m. check: Box 1, Finnie and Patrick: One of Finnie's eggs is clear and 4 have visible veins and or air bubble. The clear one could be the newest one laid, so for now I am going to assume that all are viable. Box 2, Phoebe and Bailey: Both of Phoebe's eggs look clear, but she isn't sitting yet, so I will wait to candle them again until later. Box 3, Colleen and Sean: Colleen's were hard to see, so I couldn't get a good count of clear vs fertile. There was at least 1 clear one, and at least 4 fertile ones. So she gets to keep them all for now. I was thinking I would probably not foster any eggs away, but wait and see if there are babies that need to be fostered after they hatch, depending on how big the older ones are when the younger ones hatch. (Also depending on whether Finnie and Phoebe have too many of their own by then.) Thursday, Dec 31 p.m. check: Finnie and Pheobe each have one more egg, and Colleen still has only 7! Maybe she is reading this thread and has decided to quit! Finnie's 6: Phoebe's 3: Phoebe seems to be spending only half her time in the box, so it's hard for me to tell if she's started sitting or not. But I'm not worried about it. In a few days I will candle hers again, and see if there are any developements.

In this first photo the hen on the right is the mother (Elly) and we've determined in another thread that she is probably a mauve. The cock is the yellow dom pied. The second picture of him is much better. Now I see what you mean by patches of color on his body. But I do see the band of color across his chest, now. I would say he is double dark factor, so either green series olive, or yf2 series mauve. In the first picture, I think he looks green, in the second I think he looks yf2. I'm not good at telling the difference between green and yf2, sometimes. Because he has so much blue around his vent, and because his yellow is pale, I would say yf2. But I've also heard that green series sometimes starts out with less yellow suffusion, too, so I think he could be either. (What were his parents? Cuz if one was blue and one was yf2, then you will know he's yf2. But if one parent was green, he could still be either or) But either way, with both parents being double dark factor, you will only get double dark factor chicks. Since the mauve hen is normal, you would expect 50% dominant pied and 50% normals.

Thank you, Dr. Nat. If you go there and click on WBO Colour Standards, it lays it out very nicely.

Thanks, Pebblz. Sam I absolutely LOVE!

Hi Concreteandwater! to the forum. It's nice to see another North American here. Seems like a lot of Canadians have been joining lately I'm no expert, but you'll probably have to wait a while for an answer from the Aussies. I think it's around midnight there, and they are probably all off celebrating New Year's Eve. (At least I hope they have better things to do tonight than haunt the internet! ) It's around 9am here, and I assume Ontario is either EST or Central time? Indiana used to be split to central, but now only corners of it are. I think Birdluv is Canadian, and she seems to know a lot about hand taming. Maybe she will come on and have some advice for you. Anyway, you should look in the faqs section, or look up topics about hand taming. I know there is a hand taming topic by Elly. My guess is that he is jealous, and is trying to keep you away from the other bird, who he sees as his mate. I'm sure others will have better answers for you.

Pictures would help, because I am confused by the "patches of olive green on body". I thought dom pied was meant to have a band of color across the body. And a yellow face pied would have a white body with or without yellow suffusion, and patches of blueish/green on the body. Anyway, what I can tell you is that if both parents have double dark factor, then all the babies will also have double dark factor. (So they will be olives, and maybe mauves if the father is split for blue.)

I do not agree with the white nostrils theory...nostrils only info can be deceiving. Basically any white on a budgies cere is female...thats the easiest way to look at it. I agree with Kaz. I have a couple of boys who have pinky ceres with no white on them, but a lot of times, say in the early morning or when they get stressed out, they will show pale rings around their nostrils. This doesn't make them girls. But it does confuse me, because I've heard the "nostril theory" so much. Your girl seems to have white around the nostrils, BUT, if you look closely, there is also white at the bottom of her cere. In fact, if you try to imagine it as her having a completely white cere, with a blush of blue on the lower half, it may give you a better idea of what to look for. By the way, I like the pied boy next to her. Can we see the other three?

Thank you for the pictures, DF! I enjoyed looking at them. I can see what you mean, about the colors not coming out true to life. My monitor makes both parents look like sky blue (or dare I say it? Sky-violet -sorry Macka! ) But obviously, if the parents were sky blue, so would the babies be, and you wouldn't even be having this dilemma, would you? So based on your descriptions and what everone else has said, I would tend to agree with them, your slatey-blue looking babies are probably mauve.

My guess is that you have it right.

She's gorgeous! I'm hoping to breed one like that someday