Finnie

They are fine, thank you. Most of them are going through a major molt, so there are tons of feathers right now, and tons of itchy pin-head birds preening each other.

Rachelm, for it to be a cinnamon male, it would still have to have a cinnamon mother. But the fallow gene is non-sex linked, right? So there is the possibility of it being hidden in both parents. I agree with you, this does seem highly unlikely.

He looks great, Birdlove! I love the wingspan shots.

Yeah, the forum had an upgrade a couple of years ago, and ever since then, only a few of the smileys work. The admins tried to fix it, but they didn't seem to be able to. I use the keyboard shortcuts that Birdlove posted, since they are faster and work.

I am so sorry that second clutch did not work out. I assume that's the same hen as in this other thread of yours? http://forums.budgiebreeders.asn.au/index.php?showtopic=32976&hl= It really makes me think that there is either something genetically wrong with that hen that she can't produce viable offspring, or else she is just such a poor mother (also probably inherited) that even when she finally got the incubating down correctly, she couldn't manage the feeding. I would wager the first possibility. She's kind of old to keep trying with, but a lot of first time mothers don't feed properly, and they let all their chicks die. But then the next time they just do it all perfectly. It would depend on whether you wanted to go through the agony of giving her one more chance. I hope your other clutch is doing well. One (risky) option to consider would be to try fostering a chick or two from the good mother to the bad mother and see if she can/will keep them alive. If so, then you know the problem wasn't with her feeding/not feeding abilities, but more likely with the lack of viability in her original chicks and eggs. But if she let the foster chicks die, then that would be sad.

Oh. Now I've seen your other thread.

Very nice, Birdlove. You must have had a great vacation! Is your camera the same as the Eos Rebel? I think that's what my niece has, and we are thinking of getting the same one. How did you decide, if you don't mind me asking?

I think she looks a little dark to be a dilute. But that's the problem with breeding greywings and dilutes. There are so many modifier genes that blur the lines between which is which, and they tend to produce offspring with the same modifiers, so it's hard to sort them out.

I assume you are cage breeding and not colony breeding? Because every one of those photos says "male" to me, sorry.

Thanks, trefto. I think sometimes there is confusion about whether to use the word "masking" vs the word "split to". But yes, I agree, a hen can't be split to a sex-linked mutation. Trefto, I think you are right about the Texas clearbody and the ino. I also had forgotten that ino doesn't mask cinnamon- you get lacewings that way. I will hunt up a Wikipedia article that may be of some help here. I've copied and pasted the part of the chart that is pertinent: Here is a link to the entire article, this chart is way down http://en.wikipedia....lour_genetics http://en.wikipedia....colour_genetics I highlighted in red on the chart where it says the Texas Clearbody gene is co-dominant with the other ino locus alleles. If this article is correct, then TCB shouldn't entirely mask the ino or vice versa. I'm not sure what that would look like. If only some TCB breeders would come and tell us. (Oh, and I haven't seen Neville around in a long time. I think I've seen him more active on Talkbudgies, but I haven't checked there in a long time.) There are some old threads here about TCB and ino, if anybody wants to look them up. It would make more sense if the TCB was completely dominant to the ino. I found this article by a very well respected breeder in England. He says TCB is dominant to ino. http://server1.web-mania.com/users/betofbre/al-nasser/article8.htm

I'm not so sure about it being a Texas clearbody, because they have red eyes, and these photos have black eyes. What about Easly clearbody? I'm not sure what color eyes those have. Here is an interesting article, but it does not mention eye color. http://server1.web-m...er/article8.htm

Did you try putting a piece of millet in the box? Sometimes a first timer will be wary of going inside, but they might get up the nerve for some millet. Maybe next time you try this hen she will go in. I've had that happen before with first timers, and then the next time I gave them a box there was no problem.

Aw, I'm so sorry to hear this. Sometimes there is just nothing we can do.

That's awesome! 11 days now, how is the chick doing? Any siblings?

Just for future reference, even if quarantine is not followed immediately. it can still be started within a few days. Sure, if either group of birds is carrying something, then they are both already exposed to it. But separating them still minimizes how much they are exposed, and as far as helping a new bird settle into a strange home, better late than never. Once he gets over the stress of the move, then re-introduce him to the rest of the flock. (Except in this case, it's a bad idea to put a new bird in with an established pair.) So Budgieperson, how have things worked out for them all in the past few weeks? In a small group situation such as yours, even numbers of males and females usually work better, provided the cage has ample room.

Congratulations on the successful move! I hope your breeding season continues to go well.

You've been given a lot of good advice, and I'm sure that in the time between starting this thread and now, you've been able to learn what you needed, or done without. I just want to address the following in case anybody reads it and gets a wrong idea. I'm not sure what budgetminded meant by that statement, but I would caution anybody who wants to make changes to their budgie's diet to keep watch over whether their bird is getting enough to eat. Budgies CAN and WILL starve themselves to death if they don't recognize a new food and are not given the old food they are used to. This is often in the context of switching a bird over from a seed diet to a pellet diet. Make absolutely SURE that the bird will eat the pellets, and eat enough of them, before you remove their supply of customary seed. It may take a budgie days or weeks to get up the nerve or the curiosity to try a new and unfamiliar food. It would only take a day or two for them to starve to death if their regular food is withheld. There is no such thing as "when they get hungry enough, they will eat it" like you can do with a dog or cat. A budgie just won't figure it out.

Welcome! He's a very cute bird. Where in the U.S. are your from?

Lol, one of the things we often suggest is to have several pairs breeding at once in order to have fostering options, but yeah, if they all lay huge fertile clutches, there goes that option! I'm wondering how you can pinpoint the problem to the hen not turning the eggs. I mean, there are lots of reasons why chicks could be dead in shell, and there are lots of incubating mistakes hens can make. It would be interesting to know if there are classic symptoms that indicate a lack of turning vs some other problem. In any case, it sounds like this hen may just be a poor breeder, if she hasn't produced in over three years and abandons her nest so easily. Most will go back to their eggs even with daily checks and disturbances. But there could also be genetic problems, meaning eggs could be fertile, but just not viable, thus the dead in shell. Sometimes non-viable eggs don't die until after hatching, too, which means early chick death. (Sorry to point out all the possible bad things that could go wrong. ) I know how disappointing it can be to have high hopes for a pair and then never have them realized. It doesn't look like there is much you can do at this point other than to hope that it all just clicks, but maybe she will surprise you! Good luck, let us know what happens.

Aw, Jaff, I'm so sorry!!! That is so upsetting after all your care. I agree with Flip about trying to have more than one pair breeding at a time. It doesn't always work out, but it can be a big help if you need to move a chick. Or if you ever do use a hen who you don't really trust with the older chicks, then as soon as she lays a new egg, just take her away and let the father finish raising the chicks. Losing a special chick like that can be quite a blow. I hope you are feeling better.

I think that cage would be crowded with more than two budgies in it. Since you already have three, I would hesitate to rock the boat, assuming the three are at peace with one another. Gender matters, too. If you have three boys getting along fine and you add a hen, watch out! If you want more budgies, maybe look into getting a second cage, or a wider one. Remember, the tallness of the cage doesn't matter- it's width that gives them more flying room across. And you need enough perch space so they are not sitting shoulder to shoulder. I just realized this question is going in two threads. I'm locking this one so that the discussion can stay all in one place.

I just saw that you have two threads going on the same queston., I would merge them, but that would make it all look very confusing. I'm going to lock the other one so that all future responses go in the same place. Here is my post from the other one:

That sounds like a pretty good compromise. Sometimes a hen will allow her older chicks to stay in the nest when she starts laying again, and sometimes she can get ugly to them. Pretty soon your chick will be old enough to eat on its own anyway, so you shouldn't have to keep it up too much longer. All the extra handling this one is getting will really help it on its way to being tame.

Aw, I'm sorry you lost some of them. That's the not-fun part about doing this. Can you tell whether the two survivors are boys or girls?

White cheek patches are produced in any budgie that has a melanin removing mutation, if the melanin happens to be removed from part or all of the cheek patch feathers. This bird is a pied, so his cheek patches happen to be "pied out". Examples of melanin removing mutations would be spangle, all the pieds, and ino.