Finnie

I have read the shout box, Kaz, Congratulations!!

I just wanted to pop in and say thank you to Prince for that link. I didn't think I would ever find pre-made wire cage fronts! And Hi, Cory! Long time, no see.

Well, since Dave likes dom pieds, I decided he should have one named after him! :rofl: So we find immortality in budgies! Well, at least as long as a budgie lifespan!

I probably should not have paired these two parents together, seeing as they both have some quirks that make them a little hard to identify. But, I wanted a 3rd pair to put down, and Phoebe was my only other adult budgie, until I bought Bailey. First I'll start with Phoebe. When I bought her, I thought she was a double factor dominant pied. Then I read Neville's excellent post on combination pieds, and I got the idea that maybe she is dom pied combined with recessive pied. click here to see Nevillle's post. Here are some photos of Phoebe: Before she moulted, Phoebe had several different shades of blue on her, and also different shades of green. Her yellow suffusion went throughout most of her body, but it was a paler yellow than it is now. So I think that means that she is either cobalt or mauve, definitely not sky blue. She is also opaline, but that doesn't affect the appearance of any chicks in this clutch, except that all the males will be split to opaline. So if Phoebe were DF dom pied, then I would expect 100% of her offspring to get the dom pied gene. If she were dom pied/ recessive pied, then I would expect half of her chicks to get her recessive pied gene, and then depending on what they got from their father, it would probably affect their appearance. Well, the unexpected thing is, that some of her chicks appear to be clearflight pieds. Now to discuss Bailey, the father. Sorry, I don't have very good pictures of Bailey, I'll have to work on that. At first glance, Bailey appears to be a normal grey greywing, split to recessive pied. (He has a pied spot on athe back of his head, not visible in photo.) But on closer inspection, he has one clear flight feather on his right wing. There is more to confuse us about Bailey, though. I bought him from the breeder who bred him. She gave me a hatch certificate that lists his father as a "double factor pied" and his mother as a normal light green greywing. She was a little confused as to how she got a normal/recessive pied from this pairing, I think she was expecting all dom pieds. Well, when Bailey grew up, she bred him. (not sure what to, maybe a normal.) They threw some dom pied chicks, which could only have come from Bailey. So her conclusion is that Bailey must be a poorly marked dom pied. She gave me pictures of Bailey's family, but I don't have them on photobucket yet. Those will have to come later, if they are needed. It's quite possible that Baileys "double factor" father could be a combination pied. (Um, just like Phoebe) And so we have the same mutation confusions on both sides of this family tree. But where does clearflight pied come in, with regard to my baby chicks? If it comes from Phoebe, then she must be a dom pied/clearflight pied combination. I'm sure she's not a single factor clearflight pied, because I'm sure she doesn't have a copy of the normal gene. The only other thing would be if she were a double factor clearflight pied. (I'm not sure if double factor of this gene changes appearance.) Now it would be even weirder for it to come through Bailey. If he is a "poorly marked" specimen, then I suppose he could be a poorly marked "anything", including clearflight pied. Maybe those dom pied chicks he threw were really clearflight pieds. Or maybe they were in turn, poorly marked "anything". Since Bailey's mother is normal, the clearflight pied would have had to come from his father, who could be a dom pied / clearflight pied combo. The clearflight pied obviously must come from somewhere, and both Phoebe and Bailey's dad are likely candidates. I haven't forgotten the chicks. Here are some pictures: chick a: chick b: chick c: (sorry, this one wouldn't cooperate!) And chick d (This one I'm keeping, and I named him Dave ): I know this is a lot of information to wade through, but I didn't want you to have to drag all the facts out of me one by one. I guess the questions are: What is Phoebe? What is Bailey? What are chicks a-d? Thanks in advance. If you can help solve this, your reward will be a warm fuzzy feeling, sent overseas.

Well, since Dave likes dom pieds, I decided he should have one named after him!

Breeding journal update: Finnie and Patrick's chicks are doing well on their own. Judging by the amount of empty husks that have been gathering, I think they are eating okay. They also eat their vegetables, which is a good thing. The pellets seem to remain untouched. Finnie and Patrick themselves are forging ahead. They now have 4 eggs, and Finnie is sitting. I expect these to start hatching around March 9. Phoebe and Bailey's chicks have finally started to come out of the box, but they go back in a lot. The big babies! I've moved Sean and Colleen's clan to a bigger cage, and Sean is still with them. Colleen is still at the spa, and she is going through quite a moult, very pinny. Here's a photo of Phoebe, Bailey, and some of their brood: I was going to start discussing on here what the mutations of this nest are, but I think I will go over to the colors and mutations forum, and do a separate topic for this.

Here is one of the newest members of my flock, during one of his first outings from the nest box. I have decided to keep this cobalt dommie pied guy, and name him..... Dave!

Hi Liam! Welcome to the forum. Do you mind if I use your Irish name for one of my birds? :budgiedance:

They look great, Ratzy! :budgiedance: I don't remember when mine opened their eyes, but it will be soon. First you will see slits where they start to open up. Remember, we like lots of pictures! :bliss:

Hi Dave! I always read your posts, too, but a lot of times when I am reading posts, I am pressed for time, so I refrain from commenting. Just hitting "add reply" somehow adds 10 minutes to each post I read! Plus, I think this whole weekend went by and I barely got a turn on the computer. But even when I don't talk, I am usually still lurking. Your second round of eggs is a little ahead of mine. It is fun for me to see how the stages of your chicks compare to the stages of mine. (You have chicks, and I'm just getting new eggs.)

okay, I kind of thought they looked like clearflight pieds. Since this ties in with my breeding journal, I will go over there to discuss the parents of these chicks. As for photobucket, I didn't know there was a BBC tab. My way of doing it is to cut and paste each picture individually and go back and forth between BBC and photo bucket for each picture. It can be very tedious. I will look into this Control C and Control V method. Thanks, Dave.

Thank you, Dave. It makes sense. That was a great way to explain it. So the main difference between a dominant pied and a clearflight pied is the "normal-ness" of the body of the bird. (Dominants have a belly band, Clearflights do not, or they have just a little mottling.) I really appreciate your taking your time to explain it so well, and also posting so many pictures. :bliss: By the way, do you copy and paste all your pictures individually, or is there a way to post multiple pictures at one time from photobucket? Back on topic: The reason I was wondering about this, is because some of my baby chicks look like they might be clearflight pied. Their mother is a dom pied split for something , so I was expecting dom pied babies, but a couple of them don't have the clear belly band. Here is one: And here is the other one: So what do you think? Dom or Clearflight?

Wow, Dave! That's a lot! Thanks for posting so many pictures. But I still have a question. How can I tell the difference between clearflight and dominant pied? I would have probably guessed that most of those were dommies, so there must be something I am missing here. Could it be the amount of clear feathers on the belly, and that doms are in a band whereas clearflights are more irregular?

Does that mean he was a combination? No. it means I may have said it wrong :rofl: Oh, thanks a lot! Now I am even more confused! :rofl: :rofl:

Does that mean he was a combination?

I've been searching the forum to try to figure out how to identify the Clearflight Pied. There isn't a section for photos of members' clearflight pieds. That would have been the first place to look. I did find one post that described it as having full body color and only the primary flight feathers clear, with a pied spot on the back of it's head. It sounds like the only difference between clearflight and dominant pied would be the band of clear feathers on the dominant pied's belly. Are there any other differences? Does anyone have pictures of known clearflight pieds they can post? Thanks in advance. :sadsorry:

Wow, what a smart bird. In the second one, I like how he jumped right to "three" and put his wing down! :sadsorry:

It's beautiful, Maesie. Your own family museum piece!

Oh, Splat! I am so sorry for you. It's hard to lose a special dog, and especially when it is so sudden. I'm sorry for you nightmares too. I hope they go away. :sadsorry:

If it's all the same to you, you might just put him with the hen he has taken a liking to. It might be more successful. I'm with Dave, the other hen is getting too old. Another thought, is that if you put him with the mauve greywing, you will know for a fact that all the chicks are split to blue and also split to greywing, even if they all turn out to be green normals.

Being recessive pied, he will not get iris rings. Since he is spangle, his bars on his head are lighter, but it looks in the picture like they still go forward of his eyes. It also looks like he has a couple of pin feathers starting, so maybe he is going into his first moult. That could put him anywhere between 3 to 5 months, is my guess. His cere looks like it has already turned blue, but I'm not sure at what age that is supposed to happen. Most of mine have seemed to go blue at the end of their first moult. But then thinking about it, a recessive pied is supposed to keep a pink cere. Is there any white on that cere?

Birdluv and GB, I think it's great that you have birds that will fly to you.

Hi Realene, I'm no expert, so I'll just wait and see what the others tell you, but I wanted to pop in and say hi, and welcome to the forum!

Yay, Ratzy!! Two pinkies!! :grouphug: :yes:

I must say, the genetic surprises are a lot of fun! I couldn't believe that I got greywing babies in all three of these nests! And it's hard to believe that round one is basically done, and we are now transitioning to round two. Finnie's babies did keep going back into her box, today, so I have already moved them into their own cage. Which is not without it's drawbacks. I need to keep a close eye on making sure they can eat on their own. If not, I may have to move Patrick back and forth between the two cages. Here are some pictures of Finnie's chicks in their new cage: