Finnie

Update on these two chicks I'm trying to save. It has been 3 days, and to my surprise, they are still alive. But I've been having some trouble keeping my homemade brooder at an even temperature. At first I was keeping the temperature at 97F (37C), at least I thought I was. But then a check with a different thermometer made me realise that it was really higher than that. Trying to keep it a little cooler has been a challenge, and now the temperature seems to fluctuate more than I would like. My question is, since they have been exposed to high temps, even though it didn't kill them, would it have caused permanent brain damage? Because now I am wondering if I am just basically keeping vegetables alive.

If it is recessive, and it has to be, that means it must be on both sides.

All girl cage sounds like a good plan for Marigold.

This hen sounds almost just like Finnie. I thought Finnie was going to die if I left her in the breeding cage, so she went into the hospital cage, where she is recovering fine, now. I'm sorry your hen didn't make it. It's a good thing there was a cock in the breeding cage, to take care of the chicks. It took my cock almost 48 hours to take over the feeding, but now he is doing great. I hope your chicks are all fine. The whole thing has taught me that a hen can look perfectly fine, but may not actually be in top condition for the wear and tear that raising chicks causes. I like Dave's idea of having them be a little overweight before they start. Good luck with the rest.

Hey, Ratzy, I just went back to review all your other topics about Marigold. It seems that every time she is about to lay an egg, you jump to the conclusion that she might have a tumor. Now, I don't know how common tumors are, but it seems to me that you should stop getting paranoid about tumors. So far, other than the other hen attacking her, Marigold hasn't had any health issues, or been sick at all. But she has been yo-yo-ing back and forth between a nest box and a hospital cage for about 6 weeks now. You need to decide (with your parents) whether you want her to breed, or rest. If the answer is rest, like you have been advised by a lot of people, then you need to STOP GIVING HER NEST BOXES! If she is stubbornly laying eggs in the main cage, which she seems to do whenever you put her back in there, then you need to STOP PUTTING HER IN THE MAIN CAGE! Every time you are worried about Marigold, the problem is nothing more than that she wants to lay eggs. And you are sending her mixed signals by constantly giving her a box, letting her lay an egg or two, and then taking it all away and putting her in the hospital. Then it's back into the main cage, where she tries to lay again. Seriously, can you ask your parents to read your topics on here? Your mom sounds like she cares, and wants to do the best thing for Marigold, she just doesn't know what the best thing is. IF you have to go away, and you HAVE to put her in the main cage, then as soon as you get back, you need to separate her out again. I have no problem with you breeding Marigold, if you're sure she's in good enough condition. But you need to figure out what you're going to do, and then STICK WITH IT. This isn't meant to be harsh. You just need to stop confusing your poor bird.

Yay, Splat! It's coming along nicely. Glad you could get the help you needed!

How can you fight dehydration if you think the chicks are? Because some of my chicks are looking like that in my colony breed situation. They have fresh water, but would putting a couple drops in the beak be okay? or maybe spraying nestbox air for humidity Dehydration in not just about water(Hydrogen and Oxygen). Dehydration is caused when the level of salts within the body fall to a level too low to maintain healthy active celluler activity. The way to fight dehydration is to try and provide adequate fresh water and a good quality scource of vitatmins and minerals in the diet. Exposure to sunlight or equivalent. If the hen has not been adequately prepared before putting down to breed she may well produce eggs but the chick quality and subsquent survivability will be low. This can account sometimes for the chicks who hatch and appear weak at birth and usually don't make it through day one. I agree, that is exactly what seems to be happening here, and I'm sure it is the reason for a lot of people's dead chicks. And if you're like me, and you thought you had prepared your hens well, but didn't, you wouldn't suspect right off the bat that this was the reason. Well, Kevin and Teagan threw their chick #6 out of the box, this morning, so I have it in my "brooder" along with Aidan and Aveline's last surviving chick. I'm feeding them every half hour, now, like GB said to, but don't have a lot of hopes. Have taken away A&A's box, and am prepping a cage to separate Aveline into. (With her out of the nest, Aidan thinks she's all his! )

Thank you so much for all of your replies. I'm not sure if I'm going to take any chicks to the brooder, or not. I'm working on making one with a 5 gallon fish aquarium and a heating pad. The one I had set up for a trial (no chicks yet) got too chilly overnight. So I looked for a bigger heating pad. (The first one was for hermit crabs, and I think just not big enough.) Info I found says to put the pad under only half the tank. But that didn't seem to get it warm enough, either, so now I am putting it under the whole tank. If I can't get this right, I'll leave chicks with moms. I hadn't thought about humidity. I don't have a humidity gauge. What would you guys put in the tank to supply humidity? As for chick being dehydrated, what has been said makes a lot of sense. Especially about the lack of proper crop milk. I wonder if the bedding is contributing to the dryness. I had pine shavings and oatmeal in there to begin with. When chicks started to die, I cleaned out the boxes, and the bedding was quite dry. It didn't have a bottom layer of moistness. Actually, that tells me right there that there hasn't even been enough moisture to dampen the bedding. The bedding is now only oatmeal, but even that didn't prevent dehydration in this last chick. The vet, GB and I are all in agreement that this is a case of inexperienced hens not doing their jobs properly. Especially due to the lack of condition of my hens. I thought I had good plans for how to feed/care for my birds, in order to have success breeding, but I have made a few glaring mistakes, that have caused what I guess is a cycle of undernourished hens producing undernourished eggs, which hatch, but do not have the means to survive very long, since the hens thus provide sub-standard care. Kaz, you have a good point about an autopsy, but for this round, I am going to figure that it's probably not a disease. GB is helping me figure out a better feeding and care plan, and after a good rest, when I'm sure they are in top condition, I'm going to try these pairs again. If that doesn't solve the problem, then, yes, autopsy can be done at that time. Oh, I think the toenails were red. They just look black in the photo. And the beak looked like it had blood on it, so that's why I tried to get a close up shot of the face. Basically this round of breeding is being closed up FOR me. But since Teagan has two viable chicks that will probably survive, I will leave her nest going. And Finnie's will be fledging soon. I'd like to leave the questionable chicks with their mothers until they reach 7 days, but I doubt they will live that long. GB, I'm sure I don't have time to be feeding them every half hour, so I guess my chances of saving any are slim to none. I have been neglecting all my other responsiblities around her as it is, what with focusing so much time and attention on this bird problem. I have a lot of catching up to do. Macka, you could be right about the cold, because when I check them when they are still alive, some of them feel less warm than others. And if I hand feed one, I am always worried about it by the time I get it back into the nest, and then the dumb mother is out in the cage eating, and she doesn't get back in there as quickly as I wish she would. But as for night, they are in my basement. There are no mice. Those try to come later, in the cooler weather, we set traps out, kill a few, and then they stop coming for the rest of the year. My daughter sleeps down there, and she has reported no distubances in the night, but sometimes she hears hungry chicks making a clambor. I am starting to lean towards taking the chicks this morning, after contemplating the issue with their mothers not warming them enough.

There was another dead chick this morning, and I got photos of it. This one looks more normal, as far as what I've been experiencing here. This is from Nest #1 (Aveline) It actually looks pretty well fed, so I don't think that I could have saved it with supplemental feedings. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that all the remaining chicks in that nest are doomed. (There are now 2 live babies and no more eggs.) So I have been considering pulling them out at this tender young age, and trying to raise them in a brooder. I feel that I have nothing to lose by trying this. Is there anyone who has ever had success with hand raising ones this young? (1 and 3 days old) Do you have any tips? Also, I need to know what temperature to keep the brooder at. A quick and not thorough search of the internet turned up a temp of 95F, would that be right?

I'm actually just about to go over to the website where I can place an order for some of these things. You and GB both said Triple C, so I am going to choose that over the others, unless you think I should do both Triple C AND doxycycline hydrochloride.

Thank you so much for your replies! On the hand feeding note, I have really weighed the pros and cons of whether my trying to feed the chicks is harming them or helping them, and I have decided that even if I kill them with kindness, it is better than letting them die due to their mothers' ineptness. I'm just so afraid that I can't keep the formula warm enough, or that I make them aspirate it. Or that they might catch a chill during the process. (I'm already concerned that their mothers don't keep them warm enough even in the box.) Does anybody have any tips on how they juggle all these things?

Thank you, Sunnie, I appreciate that.

So I've been running into some problems with chicks dying, the past few days. I've done a search of other people's topics on dying chicks, and I've learned that there are very many reasons that something can go wrong. I've done a lot of speculation about what can be wrong with my nests, and I've decided I'm just going to have to work really hard on optimizing my birds' conditions, and accept that if they die, they die. But this afternoon, I found one of the dead chicks' bodies, and it was completley different to any of the chicks that had died before. They all looked like normal chicks, only dead. This one looked like this: This is the one who died over night in Teagan's nest, but whose body I couldn't find. Until my 3pm check, and there it was. Now, all of the other dead chicks did not decompose like this. (They were still at the top of the bin, and they still looked like they did when I found them.) I'd like to know if anyone else has had a dead chick like this, and if you recognize why it turned like this. I called an avian vet office as soon as I found it, because I felt that this was a more extreme case than the others, which I chalked up to poor mother-care, or just not being fit to survive. The vet was having a long day, and wasn't able to get back to me until 9pm, but I truly appreciate him calling me, when I'm sure he wanted to get home. He said it was probably too late to autopsy this one, but that if another one dies, I can refrigerate it, and try to get in to the office asap, and they can send it to a lab for a necropsy. That is, if I want to spend a fair amount of money to try to find out what to treat for, in the hopes of saving the others, if that's even possible. No guarantees that the tests will be conclusive, though. He also said that if one of the other mothers gets sick, I can bring her in (along with her babies) for a swab and cultures, to try to get a good guess about what to treat for. He said that if I can get in and back home quick enough, it probably wouldn't upset the hen too much, and she wouldn't abandon her nest. I guess if I brought her in without the babies, it would upset things too much, by the time I got her back. (Please, please, please, don't get sick, hens.) Other than that, he said it will just be up to me to keep an eye on the chicks, and hand rear some, if necessary, in order to save their lives. He also stressed the importance of handwashing between handling the different nests, to avoid cross-contamination, in case there IS some kind of bacteria or disease. I must admit, that until I started having problems, I just treated all 3 nests as though they already shared the same germs. Once chicks started dying, I started being more careful, and once I saw the black chick, I am finally taking this much more seriously. I have hand sanitizer, but I'm afraid it will hurt my already compromised chicks, so now I make trip after trip upstairs to the sink. I forgot to ask him if they have crop needles and syringes at the office, and if I could be shown how to use them. I'll have to try to remember that next time I call. (Probably will be a next time ) I ordered a crop needle, but the website didn't explain about getting a syringe separately, so when it comes, my crop needle will be useless. So, anyway, I realize that the details of my chick problems are scattered throughout 3 different topics, now. To try to recap, the dying chicks belong to Aveline and Teagan. In Aveline's situation, the youngest chicks are fed and seem okay, maybe not the best fed, and maybe on the small side. But once they start to get bigger, they die. Usually with some food in their crops. I think I can blame two of the deaths on this: that I fostered them to Finnie, she got sick and stopped feeding them, and so I put them back with Aveline, but she didn't really accept them and care for them, so they couldn't bounce back. But that doesn't explain why a chick died in her nest BEFORE I returned the two to her. Or why the next two chicks in age order died. Now she has two very young chicks that are fed, and one more egg to hatch. So far the pattern is this: they hatch, live about a week, and then die. Teagan's situation is a little different. Her first and second chicks are fine. About a week to a week and a half old, one is rung, both are active and fed very well. But the following 3 chicks never got much of a chance. Some were fed a little, the last one was never fed, except by me, and I was afraid I killed it by drowning or choking it with the solution. (I wonder if that could be why it turned black?) So those 3 chicks are the ones that died overnight, last night. Now she has a 6th chick that just hatched, and hasn't been fed yet. I will probably have to feed that one in the morning, and try not to kill it. The vet suggested I might pull the two oldest ones out and hand raise them, which would force Teagan to turn her attention to the younger one. But I really don't want to mess up the only two healthy chicks that look like they will live. Oh, there is so much spinning around in my head! What would you guys do?

Bad news again this morning. Chicks #4 and 5 in Aveline's nest are dying. They looked dead, but were still breathing. They are 7 and 6 days old. The two younger chicks look fine, and there is still one egg. For some reason, Aveline seems unable to keep her chicks going once they hit the 1 week mark. I am in despair, I don't know what to do! If it were a disease, wouldn't they all die at once, not just as they reach a certain age? I'm inclined to think she can't feed enough to sustain them at a larger size. But I know Aidan is in there helping her, a lot. His face is messy from feeding. But there is more bad news. Teagan had 5 chicks at bedtime last night, and this morning, only two are left alive. In her case, it's the youngest that are dying. (And I only found two dead bodies, the youngest one is missing. I dug around in the shavings, and I checked parents for signs of blood, but nothing. ????) I suspect that Teagan only gave attention to the two oldest, who are growing well, and always fed full. BUT, could this nest have a disease, since it wiped out 3 at once? There are still 2 eggs in this nest, but they are going to have a HUGE size difference, I fear for them, as well. I spent some time this morning searching for posts on dying chicks, and it seems to happen a lot. A certain percentage seems to be considered normal, but the numbers I have dying are unusual. The consensus from what I have read so far is that there are hundreds of things than can prevent chicks from surviving, and it's really trial and error when you want to try to save them. In one post, Clearwing mentioned administering psitavet to all the parents, when there are a lot of chicks dying. I am going to see if I can get ahold of some of that. I'm also going to clean out the nest boxes, and put in clean bedding to see if that helps. And I'm constantly trying to improve their diets. I am constantly giving them fresh water, so I don't think it's that. There are no mice, no insects (unless I find mites when I clean out the bedding, but it wouldn't be my first guess.) But can I really put this down to bad mothering?

They are very cute!

Well, they have a finger draw with oyster shell powder, and one with bird charcoal. It's hard to tell if they take any, but if so, it's not enough for me to have to replace it. I add liquid calcium plus vitamin and mineral powder to their soft food, but honestly, I can't say that they ever touch the soft food. I thought they would start eating that a lot once they were feeding babies, but they don't. They also have cuttle bones, and lately the bored cocks have been chewing those to bits. They get no daylight, so I've tried to compensate for that by using fluorescent light bulbs and also full spectrum light bulbs, both kinds shining on each cage, and their water has vitamins which contain D3. She seems like she is always eating. That pair goes through a lot of seed, and they gnaw down their carrots and whatever vegetables I give them, but they don't touch the soft food. Donovan feeds her a lot, and up till yesterday, the chicks always had stuffed crops. I've never added salt to their diet. I'm not sure how much or in what form. GB, I was hoping you would see my answers to your questions and have some advice for me, say, on what I could be doing better. This has got me to thinking about my feeding regimen, since the soft food is basically wasted. I was going over what I put in the soft food, and what is different about it this year than last year, because they ate last year's version. I figured out, that I have not been giving them the egg-biscuit mix in the food. Instead, I've been using the powder mixture that I read about in a chick feeding topic, a while back. But I realized, that I do not have whole egg powder in my mix, so they have been deprived of the nutrients found in eggs. Also, there must be something in the powder mix (or it could be the liquid calcium) that is putting them off the soft food. I don't know what it could be, but in the interest of getting them to at least eat the pureed vegetable part, I have stopped putting the powder and the calcium in. And I baked up some egg-biscuit, and am giving that separately. (They have been tearing into it. ) Now I am thinking that I need to be adding the liquid calcium to their water, since it's not in the vegetables, anymore. Does anyone know if I can put the liquid calcium and the vitamins in the water together, or should I give them on alternating days?

Sorry, I strongly disagree with this advice! It is not advisable to breed only one pair of budgies at a time. Breeding is a serious endeavor, involving a lot of study and pre-knowledge of what to expect. Ultravox, and anyone else in this situation, IF you were planning to breed someday, I would still advise getting him a male roommate for now, and save the hens for later on, once you know what your plans are, and you are building up a flock of several breeding pairs. One male and one female in a cage together can get along just fine, but you have way more potential for problems and unwanted egg laying issues, than if you were to keep two males together. Everything else Squeak said is spot on!

Chick #4 I think it's going to be a mauve normal, and I wish it were a boy, but I think it is a girl. Gotta love that full crop! (Have skipped chick #3, because I will probably keep her, and thus am not hand taming her. Will have to do a photo shoot of her another day.) Chick #2 Her color started out looking violet, to me, but now I am wondering if she could be mauve (diluted, though, by the greywing-type gene) Again, wish she were a boy, I have a customer that wants a hand tamed blue boy, but I'm pretty sure this one's a girl too. And Chick #1, who is such a lovely opaline, that she is kind of my favorite But still, not to keep. To hand tame for someone else.

GB, by jackpot, do you meant that if she is df violet sky blue, then when he puts her to the mauve cock, he will get 100% cobalt violets (visual violets)? That would be exciting!

I think the one 2nd from the right is going to turn out really pretty! Is it a dommie pied?

Hi, Netty! Welcome to the forum! We love pictures here, so why not post some of your birds for us? We can tell you if we think the baby is really a baby. (If you bought it at a pet store, sometimes they will label them as babies, just to sell them better. ) I see you have another thread, I'll go look at that one, maybe you already put pictures there.

With good reason. If there are any doubts, it's important to think them through. It is a major deal.

If the green tail is some kind of new mutation, then you would have to do test breeding to find out if it is dominant or recessive. Also, in cases like this, sometimes inbreeding is called for, to see if you can bring the mutation out again. For instance breeding him back to his mother, or maybe to his sister, because they are the ones most likely to also carry the gene. Also, possibly trying the original parents to each other again, to see if any more like him pop out. If you got another one, and it was a girl, then you would breed both of the green tails to each other. It would be quite an undertaking, because you would want to keep all the offspring, and do several pairings to build up your "collection" of the gene and of potential carriers. Unless your parents wanted to jump on board and go into budgie breeding with you in a big way, the best route may be to give/sell the green tail bird and his parents and siblings to a more experienced breeder, if there was someone who wanted to run with this. But since these are your pets and you love them, you could just dabble around with it a little bit. You may or may not ever get another green tail. I think the green tail is really cool, though!

That would be ideal! Just don't do what my real dad did. He also had a driving job, going cross country, which always took him on the freeway past our town, but it was always "I came through at 5 am" or "It was a rush job and I didn't have time to stop". He stopped only twice in all the years. But by the looks of that house, you would have an awesome "Grandma's House" for holidays and week long summer visits! And you would have room for the whole family at Christmas.

They would be an extra hour and a half away than they are now For most of the time my children were growing up, my in-laws lived 2.5 hours away. But Dad was an over the road trucker, and that distance meant nothing to him. They would often call on a Saturday morning and ask if they could come out for the day. It was sad not to be able to just run out to visit them for shopping or dinner, but the distance was close enough that my children grew up with many memories of times with Grandma and Grandpa. Including birthdays and major holidays. It just depends on how much you are willing to make the drive.