nubbly5

I do not believe this bird is a YF DF spangle. Here's one of mine Here's that bird Nubbly I'm gonna have to tell you people to pull your heads in aren't I. YES the top bird is a DF Spangle. LOOK AT THE CHEEK PATCHES - are the mottled violet & white???? NO they are pure white. It's a DF Spangle okay! And no kaz the bird I was thinking about was this one. Also a DF spangle. YES IT IS - LOOK AT THE CHEEK PATCH! okay?!

okay, just my little rant....... Recent article submissions from TV personality and budgie breeder (who shall remain nameless) started me thinking about the influence these people have on our decision making. Many years ago when said TV personality promoted "designer dogs" because they were more hardy animals (which is often but not always true of hybrids) thousands of people rushed to buy their groodle, shitpoo or schmoodle. Then all of a sudden pet shops and backyard breeders started pumping out thousands of "designer puppies" to meet this market. I've seen many many so called "designer dogs" with shocking problems (so much for hybrid vigour) because people were out for the fast buck. Did this stop said TV personality from promoting them heavily? NO WAY. Now I challenge people to go and have a search for what the final result of this has been - disgusting puppy farms where animals are confined their entire life, often sick or injured, pumping out litter after litter to fill our gullible public's insatiable and stupid desire for designer dogs with stupid made up names. Have a look at some undercover videos from right under our noses in Victoria - just horrible. http://www.alv.org.a...pyfactories.php It all makes me wonder about people's credentials and how the public perceives the information presented by TV personalities as if for some reason they are more credible than the average.......... Well after this sad history and the horrible results it promoted, I'm going to stay a sceptic until I see real solid scientific proof thanks very much - otherwise it's all heresay to me. Oh and absolutely no disrespect to the poster of the articles and my rant doesn't mean I don't want to see them, just that I tend to take it all with a grain of salt these days.

Very interesting comment about the clearwings and greywings original wing colouring. Kinda puts paid to a lot of the chatter about the English version of the clearwing and the Australian version of the clearwing being 2 different mutations. Amazing what selection can do really. One onely needs to look at the chicken industry to realize that selective breeding can have big effects.

Good luck with your Lacewing Daryl NO NO POX on your Lacewing Daryl!!!!! Just jokes! The very best of luck with it. And that IS a nasty virus a few people have there...... yes it is....... Not sure that I'm a fan of the bigger perches Kaz. Some noises through the ANBC that the decision was taken too quickly. Not sure about that as the decision had to be made either way but I guess the question is now (that everyone has spent $ adapting cages) if the perch size should be returned to the original size.

All the birds I've had selected have been fine. Some came back a bit lighter but mostly they were in better condition when they returned than when they left. Having seen the facilities first hand and watched the care that all team carers put into the birds during the weekend of the Nationals as well as the week leading up to it, I'd say that although there are inherent risks in any situation where birds are grouped and travelled, they are minimised to the greatest extent possible. I know there are some people who will not take birds to the selections as they are concerned about birds travelling and I do know there have been some sickness issues and some unforseen deaths (a substantial proportion of Tassies whole team got wiped out by what was suspected to be gassing when a luggage handler placed the travel cage down by a running luggage cart whilst unloading the rest of the luggage) but these are few and far between. Considering that most flocks of birds in the country would have all of the common diseases (due to purchasing exposed birds, native bird exposure, going to other peoples aviaries and not disinfecting ourselves etc etc etc) I don't believe that the risks are that high that you'll bring anything particular back from the Nats that you won't already have. Now if there was a major outbreak of some NEW introduced disease, well that WOULD be different. But as it stands today, so long as you provide good supportive nutrition, force a full moult before they go (by moving them into another holding area a few months before the selections) and ensure health status is good before they go then all should be well.

Yep quite normal. Some hens ceres never seem to go brown although they will still breed. With animals it's general rules but not every animal will follow every general rule exactly. If she otherwise looks to be in good condition and is happily being chatted up by the boys then try her in a cabinet and you'll probably find that she breeds okay anyway. You could also ensure that your birds are getting enough iodine to stimulate their pituitary glands for breeding.

I definitely feel for you Kaz! RIP Beautiful Scarlett 6/7/98 - 16/5/2011 Iccara Basic Instinct BSC1 CDX ADM JDM ET AZ (Scarlett)

Looking at the pics it's possible........ or maybe greywing but virtually impossible to tell from a visual point of view.

It's a boy. Might have a bit of hormone imbalance but a girl at this age would have a completely different cere.

My mother who bred inos for many many years always said that ino hens tended to be a bit more savage than normal hens (of course that's a generalisation but....) and I've found that many of my lacewing hens are more savage too - that funny ino gene maybe?!

I've never questioned birds with red eyes eyesight since a very nasty Lacewing hen always managed to find my thumb to latch hold of REALLY HARD! Amazing eyesight! She could even spy my thumb whilst she was in the nest box and I was trying to sneakily clean out the cabinet!

Sorry GB not spangle. Badly marked Albino or poorly marked Lacewing. And definitely a he - Arrowdane, many people who don't really know will get the albino and rec pied males wrong. Prequito, the white boy does have red eyes.

My first instinct was 2 males.

Yes. Violet often shows up worse in suffusion as does dark factor both of which this bird has. You might have a golden face baby.

There was yellow DF spangle posted on this forum in the past (was it Splat's???) with MASSIVE suffusion, so much so that it did look like a very beautiful clearwing so they are around and I've seen others with really heavy suffusion such as this (combined with dark factor AND violet it's going to be even more prominant) but the cheek patches are a dead giveaway - not sf spangle (they have silver/blue mottled patches) and definitely not a clearwing (very violet cheek patches). And with 2 spangle parents.....

There are a number of over the counter bird wormers available. Go check out a good pet store. You should probably worm her as she had outside contact prior to coming to you and I assume that at some time she was with other budgies. Then you can probably forget about it for a long while if she is not in contact with other birds.

My favourite! Makes me giggle everytime I look at it.

Full white cheek patches (not mottled), extremely faint wing markings and iris rings. To me she looks like a heavily suffused violet DF spangle.

Bummer but it's going to happen. Lucky you've got a good lot of his genetics to play with now!

Yep with you there Heathrow! And in relation to spending big $...... well there are those that can and those that can't. And in relation to breeding winners....... well there are those that can and those that can't. Some of us hide the fact that we can't by spending substantial $ on buying birds in. Cheque book breeders I think they are called. I can think of a number of breeders in WA who have had amazing families of birds (one or two generations in from purchasing in super birds) and over time those families disappear from their stud. Why is that I wonder?..... (rhetorical question there). Those of us who can't breed winners AND can't afford to buy in birds are kinda stuck unless they can develop their abilities to pair the right birds. And some of us in that category are happy enough with the hobby for entirely different reasons than winning. The social side, the birds themselves or just seeing those babies pop out every year. Whatever.

Hi Finnie It's always possible with greywing as just one gene of dilute needed with 1 gene of greywing and you have a visual dilute BUT where she IS marked she is quite dark in comparison to dilutes that I've seen AND there is a very big history of greywing in the stud. We know the Dad is greywing and apparently the mum is split for greywing. Points to greywing for me. The addition of opaline will lighten the greywing a bit and the pied certainly doesn't help matters with id-ing but if i was asked to bet I'd be going with the greywing both looking at the bird and her history.

Sorry mate! I'm an infrequent floater these days but..... Very nice stock birds and a great place to start a nice family of spangles. The cock has a really nice deep mask and good shoulder. The hen has slightly better directional feather than the cock bird and a slightly shallower mask. Quite nice complimentary birds. Hen is also a bit finer feathered than the cock bird and they both look like good substantial birds. Definitely not too young to breed if the DOB you were given is correct but I agree that they might not be in breeding condition right now. I would have been happy with these purchases!

Finnie I concur! Having been in horses, dogs and budgies as well as a number of sporting clubs over my time, I've come to the conclusion that people are people wherever they are and whatever they do. Unfortunately there are those that make themselves feel good by climbing to the top of whatever arena they are in by ******** all over everyone else. Whatever method that gets them there is okay by them. Unfortunately some of us just want to enjoy ourselves and these cretins just make the whole thing unpleasant for others. I get a little bit of amusement from these "big fish in tiny little ponds" (and let's be honest - how tiny is the budgie world pond) pounding their chests, making new rules and generally behaving like the budgie hobby is politics on a world scale - OMG how pathetic! I initially thought bunches of women were the worst (horse and dog club experience speaking here) but after seeing how pedantic, bitchy and completely an@l many men in the budgie clubs are I've come to the conclusion that it's just how many people are. I'm all right Jack, stuff the rest of you. Our trick in life is to spend our valuable time and effort with people we care for and who care for us and not waste it on W.O.A.'s (waste of air's) who don't care about anyone or anything except their own selves. Sometimes picking them for what they really are is a bit difficult but that's not your fault that's them just putting on their nice front until they can't hide the fact that they are @rseholes anymore. As Finnie says just ignore the w@nkers and enjoy the company of the genuinely nice people! There are some out there...... somewhere Oh and you are not allowed to stop updating this thread either. Everyone is really enjoying your descriptions and details of your experiences!

Maybe some dilutes and definitely dark factors. Not anything else.

Well K&M we can all only just make educated guesses based on what you've told us and what her parents are. Looking at her and her parents to me she is a heavily pied Opaline, Dom Pied, YF2, greywing. She might well be a combo pied but you would need both parents to carry a rec pied gene and although we know she could well have it from one side, her dad's side doesn't show anything (but obviously doesn't mean it's not being carried through). Orange beaks just tend to mean lack of pigment and can also occur in dom pieds if beak is "pied out" same as you can see it on ceres. To me she is not pied enough to be a combo but the grey, greywing AND opaline are all compounding to make her body colour very light which might be confusing the issue. The best way to determine for sure if she is a combo pied is to breed her to a known recessive pied. Then if she is a combo, you should see some rec pieds or combo babies. If not then all you will get are normals and dom pieds. Otherwise mate we are all just guessing as much as you!