nubbly5

Dominant Pied Opaline Spangle Cobalt or whichever order I should be writing that in!!!!!!! Cobalt Opaline Dominant Pied Spangle if you like....... Such a beautiful even band, she's probably actually an Australian Dominant Pied (or Banded Pied) Opaline Spangle Cobalt.

Yours! Greywing and clearbody is not a combination of varieties you might see all that often as most people would not combine a sex linked variety with a recessive variety. And I'm reasonably sure it's greywing clearbody and not cinnamon clearbody....... do you have greywings in your flock as well as clearbodies? and is there a chance that you have combined the 2 varieties?

Jealous! Makes my first 3m x 3m garden shed breeding room look laughable - heck it makes my 6m x 12m combined aviary and breeding room look laughable.

Sorry Vixen Got into budgie lingo there!!!! Split means they are visually one varitey but hiding another variety in recessive form. With recessive genes it takes 2 replicates of the gene to show the visual for of the variety. So for recessive pied to be a visual recessive pied (for you to be able to see that it is a recessive pied) it needs 2x recessive pied genes. For a dominant variety it only requires 1 of that gene to show the visual for of the variety. SO if a bird is one variety - a normal violet for example - that bird might also be carrying one gene for recessive pied without us being able to see it. So we would call that bird a Normal Violet split for recessive pied. You generally only know what a bird is split for if there have been accurate breeding records kept for that bird. Recessive pied males have a pinky/purple cere not to be confused with a normal males strong blue coloured cere.

Yeah, hate to say it but I think you have a cin op grey green spangle hen masquerading as a dilute!!! I would have pitched dilute body colour as lighter than what the hen shows........ If chicks spangle then you know but cinnamon is a bit unexpected even if hen is cinnamon as cinnamon x greywing should give you all normal/cinnamon/greywing cocks & all normal/greywing hens - if I got that right? My guess is you've got normal grey green spangle babies there - unless cock bird is split for something unexpected.

Yep it sure looks like it! Bugger, I bet you were excited there for a bit.

Thanks macka! As I judge I will now know what taht little bald patch on the back of some budgies heads might be!!!

hehehehehe You can tell I got a little bit tired at the end too right?! I might ignore these posts in the future coz I start and then go "Oh it might be split for ....... and it also might be split for ........" I should just learn to stop after the visual combo. Sigh......

In greywing or cinnamon form the bodycolour will be more diluted than normal so the faded colouring on the chest is not as evident. You can see suffusion on the rump of this hen and the fading barring is really typical of TCB. I breed blackeyed selfs and they are quite different to this bird. Much more even colouring body wise and markings too - lighter but more even. This is quite an unusual combination of varieties - not a very common bird!!!

I'll give it a go. Assuming infor based only on the visual aspects of the birds. Yellow Danish Pied Cock (not split for blue) x Normal Violet Hen (cobalt violet not split for danish pied) 50% chance normal light green split for danish pied 50% chance normal dark green split for danish pied 50% chance of these carrying violet If they are split for blue and/or danish pied..... Yellow Danish Pied Cock (split for blue) x Normal Violet Hen (cobalt violet not split for danish pied) 25% chance normal light green 25% chance normal dark green 25% chance skyblue 25% chance cobalt 50% chance of these carrying violet Yellow Danish Pied Cock (not split for blue) x Normal Violet Hen (cobalt violet split for danish pied) 50% chance danish pied 50% chance normal green split for danish pied 50% chance of these carrying dark factor 50% chance of these carrying violet The other option is danish pied cock split for blue x normal violet hen split for danish pied.......... but you get the idea.

Hate to rain on your parade guys but this is a texas clearbody either in greywing or cinnamon form. I've seen cinnamon texas clearbody before and this one looks more like a greywing rather than a cinnamon just due to the colouring in the photo but might just be the way the picture looks. The giveaway is the fadeout of the barring from the head (stronger darker barring colour) to the flight tips which end up that grizzled look. The suffusion on the rump parts too. Just a more diluted version of a normal TCB. Definitely no spangle matt.

If both were split for blue you might also get blues. Cock bird looks dark green too so maybe light greens & dark greens. IF they are also split for blue maybe skys and cobalts. Cheek patch for dilutes can sometimes be misleading for grey as the dilute also dilutes out the cheek patch often giving the violet a grey-ish hue. Better to look on the rump for colour. Green tinge is green dilute, mustard coloured or grey green tinge is grey green dilute. Elly - Blackeyed Selfs are actually the cinnamon form of dilute and will generally have much less body colour than Lacey as the cinnamon adds a further dilution factor to the body colour. Lacey is typically dilute with markings that you would expect for a dilute. And yes you would either need a boy Lacey (dilute) or a Normal boy split for Lacey (dilute) to get more Laceys. Plus you never know what else might be lurking there in split form............

thats what i was thinking nubbly or the other alternate could be a cinnamon yellow or a wrongly breed fellow aparently if you breed two fellows of difrent type eg german and i dont know scotis just egzampals your out come is black eyed birds that look like fellows just a thought They both have red eyes, though one has iris ring and one does not. Haven't heard of a combination of both - wouldn't that be normal split for both types of fallow or do they act on the same alele and cause major wierdness and black eyes? Plus there is a bit of writting suggesting that the English and Scottish fallows don't exist in Australia. Cinnamon fallows look virutally identical to lacewings but also have red eyes. Cinnamon yellow IS a blackeyed self if I'm understanding the yellow correctly as a dilute. I also had fleeting thoughts of dilutes generally but they usually have much more body colour than lacewings and blackeyes. Might be some other combination that we haven't thought of either I suppose. Still I think we need a picture for proper identification.

Probably a blackeyed self but photo's of them both for comparison would be helpful.

AOSV excuse my stupidity but what is that ???? A class in showing................ AOSV means any other standard variety and OAOSV is opaline any other standard variety cool thanks now i wony look so silly at the club when they say all the hifan words i will know what two mean Here are couple more for you GB ASC - Any Standard Colour NSV/NSC - Non-Standard Variety/Non-Standard Colour

I agree with Blake too. These as I said don't look like runners (still having flight feathers) and to be honest I've had runners that have bred and never passed on french moult to youngsters anyway - my conclusion is that they HAD been affected when they were young but were no longer shedding virus so their own babies were unaffected. French Moult is a VIRUS which affects young birds that are fledging causing deaths in very young birds or feather loss in older babies (mild to severe). FM is not passed down genetically it is shed from an ALREADY INFECTED bird in poo, feather dust, blood and body fluid. It is highly contagious especially in a flock that has had no prior exposure. Most breeders will see a big run of it every 5-7 years - unless you have a completely closed flock of course. Due to the fact that most of your birds that have been affected and developed some for of immunity are moved on at those ages and the flock becomes more susceptable. The BIG UNKNOWN is which birds stay shedding virus into the environment - is it those completely flightless birds or do fully recovered birds also still shed. I have babies that have lost flights and tails only to completely grow them back. If I sold them you would not know they had been affected at all. Anyway GB, these birds could even have old wing injuries. I also get the occasional busted wing and these birds so long as they can eat and drink okay have always bred okay for me.

Hey GB If they are healthy and happy there is absolutely no reason not to use them if they cannot fly. I have never seen a non-flyer pass on non-flying - as it's usually due to injury or perhaps french moult as youngster (but they don't look like runners to me so I doubt that's it). As long as they can mate, there is no reason why you can't use them this year to establish your line and then either cull them out or continue on as you choose. I don't like non-flyers in my aviary either but I'm certainly not above using a quality one to start a line or add a feature.

Spot on! Opaline AOSV if it is an opaline greywing.

Uuuumm yyeeessss....... I thought she was a he to start with too, although I was puzzled by the cinnamon and opaline from the nest that I thought he/she was from coz it couldn't have been a he really. I just assumed I had swapped something else around and forgot to mark it :doh: . I had to re-re-adjust my records when I finally cottoned on that he was in fact a she. Tricky little beasty. :glare: And yeah dek - come along and have a look. But be careful it's really easy to get hooked .

Might be a good plan I think it would be an excellent plan. Will chat next time I see you. No pressure of course!

Ooooooooh that would be a nice pairing!!!!!!!!! Wanna share a nest?

'09 Cinnamon Opaline Spangle Hen hatched end of Feb - this is her just in the nappy cage. This is her a few weeks later. This is her now at 4 1/2 months old.

Can you send a better picture of her. It's just that she does look like an opaline to me. That has some ramifications for breeding greywings.......

Kaz is the hen opaline?

Use normals and in preference dark factor normals. Look for normal birds with strong golden yellow ground colouring some birds have better yellow colouring than others even though they are the same variety. Cinnamon tends to slowly lessen the brightness of the yellow colouring.