Everything posted by nubbly5
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Wonderful Breeding!
Lucky for me Dave gave a stirling answer!!! I would not have really even known for sure what the cock birds mutations really are........ But I was going to mention the DF pied giving all SF pied babies but Dave got it anyway. Got another question though Dave - what exactly is Sky Cobalt? Isn't a bird either skyblue (no dark factor) or cobalt (one dark factor)..........? Or did you mean violet? AND I prefer your first diagnosis of the cock actually BEING opaline and not just split for opaline but only going on the bird himself as the breeding (without knowing sex of the chicks doesn't help much there). And congratulations Nik on a successful (and very colourful) round of babies!
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A Mystery
I'm with Dave too.
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Cosmo is sick
Soooo glad to hear Cosmo is so much better. Must have been hard for you to watch him like that.
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Am I A Dilute? Where Did I Come From?!
I'm not sure it is a dilute......... It looks too coloured to be dilute......... Maybe greywing?????? I'll post a picture of the 2 dilute dom pieds that I bought. Oh and I wouldn't say that the babies aren't much. They are very nice, with great feather!
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G & G Breeding Season
Thank guys! Yes Daryl, I'm with you on that but we'll wait and see how they grow on. The dad of the first grey is a wonderful bird but sometimes has the tendancy to laze on the perch - the time that he didn't he went best in show. I was hoping to add a touch of size, keep the feather and up the deportment with the hen that I put with him. Looks okay so far with deportment and feather but not sure if there is any more size there than his dad. At least the genetic potential will be there. Both of the pairings (first grey and grey green sister and the two big greys) are down again and have good fertile eggs. Another really nice thing is that after a false start my normal/normal pair has fired and has a clutch of eight fertile eggs 2 of which have hatched successfully - so far so good - 2 normal babies so big fingers crossed that I have not got that sneaky cinnamon in there.
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G & G Breeding Season
Some older pics of a few babies today. One of the very nice things is that my attempt at increasing size seems to be paying off. I spent the last few years working on feather and needed desperately to put some size into my stud. I definitely think it's working - as a gauge, all the show box photo's are in a standard show box. I took a comparison photo of the first grey baby that I posted and "Holy S%$t". As I said even though the first grey baby looked pretty nice to me, "Holy C&*p" and "Holy S%$t" are....... well you decide. This first photo is a reminder of the original grey baby I posted up. This is him on the left with "Holy C%$p" on the right. The brothers, "Holy C*&p" on the left and "Holy S&*t" on the right. "Holy S&^t" "Holy C*&p" This little guy is the single GDA DF spangle hen's baby. Looking nice, if a bit scruffy, in the show cage. One of the first potential good 'uns, the little cobalt also looking pretty nifty in the show cage. Great length on this bird (he takes after his mummy who is a very long bird also). 2 cutie YF babies (just compare the size to the greys above). Smaller but still 2 nice birds who will definitely be staying on at G&G stud. The blue had spent about 10 solid minutes going nuts in the cage as many babies do........ My first ever 2 Dom Pieds (there were 3 in the nest but the youngest had a double jointed hip and was culled). I am just a tad disappointed with the length of mask on the better one (the cinnamon), especially seeing as both mum & dad are quite long in the mask themselves. Here is the better of the 2. And last but not least a cutie little violet clearwing. As usual these things breed like flies and this girlie came from a nest of 5, 2 violets and 3 dark green violets (i think).
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Guesses For Chick Colour
Violet clearwing would be my guess. What are the parents?
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Chicks Chicks Chicks Its Happening
Very very nice dom pied hen GB. Don't ditch those FM birds just yet. If they recover then use them. If they don't then rehome or keep if you don't mind non-flyers.
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G & G Breeding Season
Introducing "Holy S*%t" and his brother "Holy C*$p". 2 young grey cocks from the same nest who are almost identical except for larger spots on one of them. They are....well.....huge - it's hard to really see that from the photos but they are 1/3rd as big again as the last grey baby that I posted up. I'm hoping they keep all flights and tails as I think they might be something a bit special. You can see the other boy in the background of this photo. And here he is here. Trying to give some perspective of size against my hand....... And then there is the sister of the grey that I showed previously (previous posts - not the sister of these 2 greys). She is looking to have some potential too.
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Who Else Has Had A Bad Breeding Season?
Having a super duper 09/10 season so far. Reasonable health, reasonable breeding results, not too much DIS and baby chick deaths (except for a couple of dickie maiden hens :/ but got them sussed now so can whiz chickies off into another box.And the best thing is that instead of maybe 1 or 2 super potential chickies I have 4 or 5 that I'm REALLY excited about plus the lacewings are going gangbusters.Makes up for a big suckie 08/09 season! Hey GB I'm guessing that's Vitamin D not some new wierd sexually transmitted budgie disease?
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Curious. About Result.
No you are almost there and 100% right that you have to use the cock bird and that the opalines would all be hens. If you then bred those opaline hen chicks to normal cocks (assume THEY were not split for opaline as well) you would only get split opaline cocks and normal hens. Remember that opaline is a sex lined recessive gene and travels on the X chromosome. Cock birds have 2 X chromosomes and hens only have one. So a hen is either opaline OR normal but cannot be split but cocks can carry both a normal X gene and an opaline X gene making them split for opaline.
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Curious. About Result.
No worries Robyn I understood that that was my reply! Sorry that I wasn't clearer so I've cut and pasted from above. Unfortunately BOTH of these options could still be valid........ you know he IS split for blue as he has bred blue babies, you know he carries violet as the hen is non-violet so cock must carry it and olive can often hide violet (he's actually an violet olive clearwing not dark green and it would appear so by all the babies being single dark factor), you also know he is split for opaline as the hen is normal but you have an opaline baby. What you can't tell is if he is or is not split for dilute so both of these could still be valid and unless you test mate you can't tell. So options 2 or 3 could still be valid but you can't tell from the babies. okay if it's straight clearwing OLIVE green - paired to a normal blue you would get: 100% normal greens, split blue, split clearwing. If it's split blue you could get: 50% chance normal green, split for blue, split for clearwing; 50% blue split for clearwing. If it's split for blue AND dilute you could get: 50% chance normals split for clearwing. 50% chance normals split for dilute. which have 50% chance being green split for blue and 50% blue.
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Ashley
Hi Jenn I know you've asked about this bird many times before and we've not come up with a definite answer for you. As a lacewing breeder I very occasionally have had birds like this come out of the breeding, which I consider either to be really poorly marked lacewings OR lacewings where crossover has re-occurred and the resultant bird is an albino. They often have very very faint markings on them and a very slightly lilac cheek patch only visable in the right light. Also as a judge I have seen quite a number of birds that could either be benched as an albino with darker markings than required by the standard (i.e. no markings) OR a lacewing with much lighter than normal. These are kind of intermediate birds where modifier genes are in play altering the markings that are visable in some way. And I would assume the YF would have something of a bearing on the final outcome of the colour of the cheek patch. So from the pics and vids I would say that you've either got an YF albino with slight markings OR a YF lacewing with very poor markings. Either way a pretty bird.
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Curious. About Result.
Sorry Robyn, I missed this thread before now...... What Neville says about the opaline but I think he misunderstood the dilute part. You said the clearwing cock was split dilute not the hen, right? Any pure clearwings bred to normals will produce all visual normals split for clearwing. As the clearwing cock is possibly split for dilute, if he actually is all babies will still be normals but they will have a 50% chance of being split for clearwing and a 50% chance of being split for dilute. You will not know which unless you mate them later. Best bet would be to find a dilute for the original cock bird and test mate to that. If he produces all visual clearwings then he is pure clearwing, if he produces some clearwings and some dilutes then he is split for dilute. Unfortunately in this instance, mated to a normal, it's impossible to actually tell if he is split for dilute or not. Olive often hides violet and the hen is straight skyblue so it also has to be the cock bird who is carrying the violet. I'm surprised about the opaline too. Generally people do not use opaline in clearwings as it is not an allowable combination in the clearwing class and is only shown in the opaline class, but that's the thing with recessive varieties you often don't now that they are there until the babies give it away. The opaline is carried by the male. Hens are either visual opaline or not opaline they cannot be split for so it has to be the cock bird.
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Greywings
AND BABY I just found out from the breeder of the Dad The sky cock you bought to my knowledge no dark factor but some of his brothers had the violet neck markings..... his sire was a green greywing and mum was a green opaline greywing I feel he would be split opaline as all his brothers have bred opaline hens but you will get some normal hens. So, does this mean FLUFFY is not female as the white cere indicates ??? :hug: and does this also mean that the green of the parent or parents could have been mistaken and was actually a violet green ? Kaz, if Dad is split opaline then 50% chance hens normals, 50% chance hens opaline. Not being a violet expert I would say that violet in greens might be hard to determine BUT violet sheen on neck does not always indicate violet in the bird. I have skys with a violet collar sheen that are definitely not violet. Unless your cock actually breeds something you can determine as definitely violet then I would say the jury is out.
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Is This Normal?
Gee I wish I had taken a photo of an albino long flight that I bought off C&B Gearing a long time ago. It had long flights - not sloppy big feathered soft wings as seen on these youngsters but proper - out of proportion long primary flights. Cec at the time told me it was one of the few genuinely long flighted birds he had seen around for a long while. Makes me wonder if it's actually a different thing we are seeing here.........?
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Is This Normal?
Yep longflights as Dean and splat say! Looking forward to what RIP has to say.
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Do You Breed French Moult?
Dont worry GB. Sometimes happens especially when you buy in stock from different places so you can cop it when you go off trying to improve the stock you've got. All that needs to happen is that you buy in from a stud that has active FM (might even be a low level that they put up with). I have been told by several breeders that they get a few FMs a year all the time - so I interpret that as the virus still being active in the stud (especially if they breed year round). It's something that does tend to happen and it's nothing that you have done or not done. Adult birds will often have the virus and not be affected at all. they just bring it in a shed it to your birds and if there are chicks present - off it goes. It's a bummer and a pain - no more than that. Consider it like your stud getting the flu - sometimes (unless you have a completely closed flock) it's gonna happen. We try not to let it happen but you never know when you buy in birds. It's good that you are finishing breeding soon though. Just let them run their course, deal with whatever FM comes along and then when all are out of nests and weaned, give everything a good clean. I would then do another disinfection clean before starting up again - spraying with a good antiviral. Give it a 6 month break and all should be okay. Not sure that isolating chicks is necessary to be honest - if you think about it, the virus came from somewhere (if it's FM) and affected the chicks. My bet is that you have an adult bird there that is still shedding virus. So which one and how do you find it? The virus is known to spread in poo, mucous, feather dust - so I would be pretty certain that it's already spread anyway - unless you are keeping each cabinet in a completely seperate environment and then doing a complete personal disinfect between dealing with each. I don't think doxy helps at all in this situation - doxy is an antibiotic that is particularly useful against psittacosis but no antibiotic treatment is effective agains virus'. They may be useful if the chicks are showing secondary signs of illness but otherwise not something I would bother with. In this I agree totally with the vet. And not eveyone here loves Doxy, some of us just see it as a useful tool to help in the health management of their flock (me!). In fact the whole daily treatment thing gives me the willies but I've seen much improved results since doing a yearly pre-breeding treatment. As for the babies, just wait and let them recover. Flights and tails often grow back without any issues at all and you would be hard pushed to identify many FM babies later in their life. Some of them don't grow back their feathers properly and these ones I would cull out. If you have nudies these rarely recover and I cull them immediately. Keep them in a nappy cage together if you can and just keep an eye on them.
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Cosmo is sick
Well from what I understand, sloppy runny poos often means enteritis (infection in the gut) and that can be caused by many things including a bacterial infection, maybe not something seen in a poo slide and crop wash....... The very few times my pet budgies ever got sick in that manner it was warmth and a few days dose on Sulfa-D (used to be red stuff coming in a little glass bottle). It was a general broad spectrum sulfa based antibacterial and generally helped out a lot. And a big second to pulling the feathers from around the vent (although he might not like it) as this should help him feel more comfortable.
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Do You Breed French Moult?
Best way to check if its FM or not is to pull the flight feathers gently. If they come away easily then it's likely to be FM. Then check the shafts and ends of the feathers. In FM chicks the feather shaft often has some dried dark blood in the shaft AND the end is pinched in. The top 2 photos show normal feathers. Take a look at some from normal birds to get an idea yourself too. These nest 2 photos show feathers from FM chicks. These are reasonably severe cases and sometimes you can see the pinching in of the feather without the blood in the feather shaft. Note how, especially viasable in the top feather, there is a distinct narrowing of the end of the feather shaft - this is a classic sign of FM. The bottom feather shows narrowing too but more severely and higher up the feather shaft. If FM is just appearing every now and then and not too severely, you can leave it. Pull all the flights from affected birds and they generally will recover (not always but mostly), unless they are completely nudies then they are best culled - unfortunately. If you breed all year round you will probably see chicks every so often that are affected as you will have birds constantly infecting youngsters and other youngsters who although uneffected outwardly will be shedding virus. If the FM gets out of control and there are many nests and babies showing up with it (this generally happens when you've gone a few years without seeing any active FM in your flock and then unwittingly bring it in from another flock with active FM - your flock has lowered immunity and can't combat the virus well). Then it is best to stop breeding completely for at least 4 months and 6 months for best measure. Let the birds rest, fight the virus, stop shedding it and build an immunity. Do a reasonable cleanout and spray treat your cabinets, perches etc with something like Virkon-S or a similarly effective antiviral antiseptic treament (F10SC I think it's called, is what I am using currently). Look for an antivirual treatment that has good activity against Parvovirus (Which also is an extremely hardy virus) and that gives you a good idea that it might be active against polyomavirus too. Hope this helps.
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Do You Breed French Moult?
FM & PBFD are cause by 2 distinct viruses. Polyomavirus causing FM (Budgerigar Fledgling Disease - BFD) & Circovirus (PBFD). There actually IS a vaccine for FM whilst there is not yet a vaccine for PBFD. Some information that I found about PBFD. The original PBFD virus that causes this disease is now called psittacine circovirus 1 (PsCV-1). In recent years, a second variant of the virus was discovered in lories with feather lesions, and this variant is now called PsCV-2. Lories with PsCV-2 and dystrophic feathers may mount an appropriate immune response and eventually recover from the infection. Australian explorers may have first identified this disease in 1887, when they described the characteristic feather changes in wild red-rumped parakeets (Psephotus sp.). However, the disease we have come to know was first described in several species of Australian cockatoos in the early 1970s. There were many proposed causes of this disease including endocrine abnormalities, polyomavirus, Mycoplasma, Newcastle’s disease virus, reo virus, adenovirus, salmonellosis and other infectious agents. It has been reported that up to 20 percent of free-ranging cockatoos in Victoria, Australia, may have clinical signs of PBFD in any one year. Other studies and anecdotal reports indicate that the PBFD virus is causing disease in some other Australian cockatoo flocks, wild crimson rosellas and other wild populations of Moluccan cockatoos, lovebirds and other species of cockatoos. No PBFD Vaccine There is currently no preventative vaccine against PBFD, so our methods for controlling the disease involve testing susceptible birds and culling any that test positive twice, 90 days apart, if they have no lesions of PBFD. Any birds that test positive that have feather lesions should be considered to be infected. Birds that test positive twice, yet show no signs, should be considered to be infected and will most likely break with the disease at a later date or the bird is being persistently exposed to the virus. This is often what we used to see with pets and breeders: A long-time pet or breeder bird would suddenly develop feather lesions and become ill. A positive test result would result in heartbreaking news for owners. A positive diagnosis was a virtual death sentence, as we could not treat the primary viral infection but only the secondary fungal, bacterial, mycoplasmal, chlamydial or protozoal infections. In spite of our best efforts, birds would eventually develop a debilitating illness from which there was no recovery. The variant of circovirus, PsCV-2 requires a different DNA PCR test than PsCV-1. There is also a generic circovirus DNA PCR test that can be useful in diagnosing circovirus infections in other species, such as canaries and finches.
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Show Budgies In Perth
SWBC has a written auction at the end of November. Might be a good chance to get a step up into show stock without outlaying too much. Just be aware that the best show birds are often not the pretty coloured ones - a real trip-up for the beginner. A good bird is a good bird REGARDLESS of it's variety - a grey green with great features is still going to be a beautiful addition to your aviary - just don't get 100% hooked up with pretty blues, violets and mauves as you will end up chasing your tail.
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Cosmo is sick
Check that vent is not pooed up as this can be tragic. Heat and broad sepctrum antibiotics prior to getting him to the vet. Make sure you give us some updates.
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Do You Breed French Moult?
A lady at Murdoch PROVED during her PhD that french moult IS a virus as has been stated here a few times it is Polyoma Virus (not to be confused with another virus of the circovirus family which causes PBFD (psittacine beak and feather disease which also affect other parrot breeds and budgerigars (budgerigars show lesser symptoms to some other parrots)). As with many other virus' birds shed the virus through several routes - poo, mucous, feather dust. Over a period of time affected birds build an immune reation to the virus and eventually the virus is removed from their system. The little understood part of this is the questions of whether or not certain individuals remain as an infective agent and although look healthy, continue to shed virus. I have had 2 runs of FM in the last 9 years, both from identifiable sources. I stopped breeding immediately, culled the nude birds as these seldom recover (and I HATE non-flyers), kept the rest (who eventually recovered enough to not be able to tell they were affected) and did a clean out. I have a breeding break for at least 6 months to allow the virus shedding to stop. Starting up again both times - absolutely no signs of FM until I stupidly re-introduce it again. And yes I do breed from FM survivours with so far no impact on the new youngsters (bearing in mind this is at least 6 months since the last FM cases appeared).
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Greywings
Very very nice Kaz!!!!!! I expect that I'll see these guys at future selections. What colour ring have you put on them?