Dean_NZ

Blue is natural in all greens, since green is actually a mix of yellow + blue and "blue" birds simply lack the ability to produce yellow pigment. He is a light green greywing. Secondly, since he is definately a HE having been such for years and having long had a blue male cere then there are one specific cause I can think of. First would be testicular cancer (not unheard of but it would not be my first suspicion). Without being specific one can say blue ceres turning brown indicate a hormonal imbalance whatever the cause may be. It requires an avian vet to diagnose through various tests what the cause may be and this could be expensive. If he does not seem to be suffering, in pain, sickly or otherwise seem to have a degraded quality of life, it may be fine to just leave him. Old cocks (over 5 years generally, sometimes not until over 7 or 8 years old in some cases) develop brown ceres as a sort of male menopause and can be lovely additions to your kindy cages as feeders.

She chose to go to nest the second clutch not being in "breeding condition" so I didnt expect much from this clutch. Might it be worth fostering her chicks and allowing her a third round of eggs? She hasnt raised many in the first round and you could always foster the next round of eggs out to a more reliable brooding/feeding hen. Depends on how hot it is getting and how feasible it is - giving her a week or two with the chicks may allow her to come back into condition before you swap them out and let her lay a final round for this bout of breeding. Just some thoughts

What a timely bump Kaz I loved re-reading this post - especially in light of Liz's feather duster experiences. Again I must enquire as to whether you have had any luck hearing from the author regarding his anthracites (or the feather duster?).

Could be split recessive pied. I've heard of recessive splits displaying one or both eyes without irises much like their fully recessive counterparts. Its a bit like how normals split opaline can show opalescence in the feathers around the shoulder/head/neck. At least thats my thoughts.

Great job Nev! Congrats!

I had a bird that had that, she died after about a month even with vet treatment. She continued to lose weight the whole time she was being treated. I think one or two other people have posted with the exact same problem and I have yet to hear of a sound diagnosis or treatment option. My avian vet never did pin down an exact cause.

congrats!!!

3-5 eggs? I havent ever had a nest under 5 eggs. Mine range from 6-11 with most hens laying 8 eggs a round. Usually their maiden round is 6 eggs, next is 8. Some go for 9 straight off the bat and 10 for round 2. I wonder why some dont get more than 5? I dont have overly large breeding cages, wish they were a little bit bigger actually. But my nest boxes are a bit larger than an ice cream tub because I believe in spacey nest boxes, perhaps this is part of the reason behind large clutches? Im fairly sure genetics has some part to play, as would age/nutritional status?

I live in NZ too, and have handrearing formula on hand for emergencies. I have never had to use it for budgies, but I am currently hand raising two of my dads abandoned canary chicks which would otherwise be dead. The correct stuff, for sale in most good pet stores is Kaytee Exact hand feeding formula. It is suitable for most if not all common aviary birds (canaries, budgies, cockatiels etc). This link to an online pet store shows an image of the product: click here

Haven't been around much due to holidays, but my condolences are with you and your hubby Kaz. I personally never sell sick birds or otherwise and it gives me a knot in my stomach to know that there are others that do because it is exactly your situation I am afraid of inflicting on some other poor person or having someone do to me. So sorry to hear

Could be sperm inside the female from an aviary mating up to 17 days prior to the egg being laid. Very hard to say who's sperm goes in which egg when there are multiple fathers. Thats if 1) you didn't put any foster eggs in, and 2) if somehow a DF spangle DID produce a normal.

That is quite pronounced splaying.

Looks like its just going through the lanky stage. Once it can lift its own weight the legs wont look as odd.

Gosh I am loving this thread

For some reason this guy just stands out to me as far as cuteness goes lol. Would love to see him in my aviary....

I am loooving how this thread is going lol. Its great throwing around nutritional info and stories. I wish I had more time to post a reply which will have to be done later. One thing to note is that while meat proteins are said to be complete, when you combine grains and lentils, they do provide a complete protein together. They compensate for the lacking amino acids of the other. Also interesting to note is that I subscribe to a nutritional forum with daily emails and one of the recent topics of discussion was a study showing amino acid competition - certain amino acids dominate and reduce or prevent the absorption of others. The study suggested that it may be better to eat lentils one meal and grains another so that your body receives all essential amino acids ("proteins") during the day, but at different times and levels, allowing for better absorption of some of the less dominant acids. One way around this would be to simply eat more animal proteins - so even if some acids are absorbed less, you end up with more of them anyway. But if you are wanting to provide a certain amount of protein and maximise the uptake, it may be wise to seperate it as can be done with grains and lentils. This could mean feeding lentil soft food in the morning and grain in the evening with regards to budgies. Lastly, if I could feed my birds anything with supreme nutritional confidence it would be sprouted foods! Those things are nutritional powerhouses! If only sprouting was easier, or buying sprouted foods was cheaper

I have to say they all look fabulous, but I am still a fan of the DF spangle suffused bib. I think it should be classed as part of the standard to set DF spangles apart from other classes like albino, DEC etc.

I've heard of this a few times and there are generally no problems until eggs start hatching. The results have all been bloody massacres in every case if i recall? Not 100% sure though.

More photos!

I am completely in agreement with kaz and splat and others about the budgie pellet debate. All propaganda in my opinion. However, I am also completely FOR finding alternative pellets that offer variety and supplementation. My addition to this discussion comes in the form of a question. I have often heard tell of various breeders who use "a spoon full of this" and "a handful of that" or a "table spoon here and there" in there soft food regimes. Now while I don't doubt that they have honed their recipes down over time and their birds benefit greatly, but do we really know what we are feeding them? I have lost a great amount of weight in the last few years (over 30kg), and my interest and knowledge of human nutrition has grown with my passion for health and wellbeing grew. As such I came into contact with calorie counting software over the internet, with the main benefit that it tracks vitamins/minerals, calories and protein/carb/fat ratios. With this tool, I went and looked around for budgie nutritional info which is still somewhat lacking as not much money or time has gone into big studies for budgie nutritional requirements specifically. However I did find a general consensus among some GOOD solid info that regular budgies should be on an intake with protein/carb/fat ratios of 19% / 71% / 9-10%. Breeding budgies can have protein/carb/fat ratios of 25-27% / 62% / 11%. Now its basically impossible to manage seed in that way because seed is very high in fats, in order to bring the ratios down you would have too add carbs for the main part but I ignore seed for now (try to give the best mix, but dont worry about it just now). What I *DO* try to do is make my soft food conform to the required ratios so I know that at least something im giving them is in accordance with what I am reading thus far. I use a mixture of egg powder for protein and fats, milk arrowroot powder (100% carbs, great for adjusting the ratios), wheatgerm (packed full of vitamins), bread crumbs (mainly for texture, but i use wholemeal bread crums for added fiber since budgies need about 9g fiber every 100g of food if memory serves). To this is added shredder broccoli for more vitamins etc, carrot, and beetroot. The final ratio at the moment using the software to work out exactly how many grams of each food item to put in allows me a final mix ratio of 19% protein, 71% carbs, 10% fats. This is the daily soft food I use in the aviary. The breeders get a higher protein version. I may look into whey protein as it is purely protein if I recall. Wheatgerm, wheatbran etc are all great sources of vitamins and minerals. This is why Im interested in those pellets Kaz mentioned, as the wider variety of alfalfa and all those other ingredients is of interest to me.. If anyone is interested, google "Cron-O-Meter" for the food tracking software I use. It takes a little bit of getting use to but I find it another invaluable tool for my birds wellbeing. I hope to continue researching and honing my softfood so my birds nutrition can be optimised year round. Thoughts?

It's at times like this where Im glad I now know how to AI a bird. I have only AI'd the one cock with a bad wing so far, but I have tested other cocks to see if they produce samples. I have had success with about 65-75% of my cocks over 1 year old and one under a year. Provided he produces a sample, this would be the perfect situation for AI - too good a cock to waste on a pairing, but if you have a dud cock that doesnt fill eggs but feeds well, and a good recessive hen - AI her to this mystery pied cock while you pair him with whoever you please and bing bang boom 2 sets of chicks!

Could be a combination pied. Recessive + dominant. Parents may have been both split for recessive.

It is unfortunate that it only showed up in the hens as I suspect it came from their mother. I spoke with the breeder and she said it could be either parent (as they are both purchased from her stud) although she is not aware of anything like it in her babies or adults. She suggested pairing both hens back to the cock for one round just to see what happens, and to pair the cock back to the same hen to try and produce a male with the same disturbance to later put back to the hen. They are both 07 birds so they may only have 1-2 more good seasons in them - better get my breeding game face on and hope they play along lol.

The connection is that canaries, like budgies, have very small lungs, so when the bird is exposed to a minimal dose of gas, it does not have the capacity to breathe in the gas, and still survie. What occurred is a tragedy. Plain and simple. Actually, I think it is this forum that has some information on budgie anatomy. What it shows is that budgies actually have very large lungs compared to their body size. This increases the amount of the body composed of air filled space, lightening the bird and aiding in flight. I should really find the link. When you can SEE the lung system of the budgie, you immediately recognise why they are SO sensitive to airborne contaminants or toxins.

Thought you all might like to see the second round of Augren and Viola. She laid 10 eggs, 1st was DIS, the other 9 hatched, the last died during a freak cold snap (coldest unseasonal weather in 30 years). Here is an overview of the family tree (thanks to Nev for the idea). Click here for larger version of the above picture Here is each baby in order of birth starting with Baby 1 - A 3437 (Ring numbers) a SF Violet cobalt cock split opaline (possibly also split ino). He is a definate keeper, very nice baby considering the average show quality of his parents. Click here for a larger version of the above picture Baby 2 - Unrung albino hen masking opaline (could be masking violet, sky blue or cobalt as well, i suspect she is just a normal sky blue opaline under that ino). Another nice girl who Im keeping because there were so few females produced. Her ino sister from the previous round was better, should have kept her instead. Oh well. Click here for a larger version of the above picture Baby 3 - A 3438 SF Violet cobalt cock split for opaline (possibly spit ino). May keep him simply because he is violet, wait until he goes through his adult moult to be sure. He is a nice bird though.. Click here for a larger version of the above picture Baby 4 - A 3439 YF1 Cobalt cock split for opaline (possibly split ino). May sell this fellow, but i'll wait to see how he fills out after his adult moult. He stands well. Click here for a larger version of the above picture Baby 5 - A 3440 Sky blue cock (possibly fathered by another male I transferred a semen sample from around this time...). Definate keeper, excellent size and mask and spots etc. Click here for a larger version of the above picture Baby 6 - A 3441 SF Violet opaline sky blue hen. A real stormer, absolute beauty this one. She is 10x better than either parent and is mentioned in another post (about the 'crests' she and her sister possess, I.E directional feather) Click here for a larger version of the above picture Click here for a larger version of the above picture Baby 7 - A 3442 SF Violet cobalt cock split for opaline (and possibly ino). Not bad, might keep him simply because he is a violet. Wait for his adult moult. Click here for larger version of the above picture Baby 8 - A 3443 YF2 sky blue split opaline. Gorgeous boy, but show wise he doesnt really stand out for any particular feature. If i keep him it will be because he is YF2. Click here for a larger version of the above picture Im commenting on these birds purely from a show perspective. If I was to view them colourwise I would never sell any babies because I would keep them all! I think they are all gorgeous! Hope you enjoyed seeing them!