Dean_NZ

sky violet X sky violet should give you: 25% sky normal 50% sky violet (sf) ('cobalts' visually but we know they are skys!) 25% sky violet (df) ('visual violets')

I think it has something to do with their natural cycle of having scarce food supply just prior to spring, when there is suddenly an abundance. The birds sense this abundance and use it to first go through a moult, and then to rear young before the abundance 'goes away'.

I often find most come into condition at the same time after a moult. Post-moult the birds are usually VERY energetic. I also find it is always best to wait for the cocks to be in condition as this is key to fertility. A randy cock can bring a hen INTO condition quite quickly in a breeding cabinet. But a sleep cock with a clucky hen usually ends up with the cock dozing outside while the hen gets box bound and lays a nice fat clutch of infertile eggs.

Wow thats quite an un-assuming hen isnt it? The green hen i mean. Not much to look at but she produced a lovely hen with that cock. Perhaps the daughter leaned towards the father? But then I always find it interesting how some hens always seem to produce better than themselves..

I am loving these blue greywings of yours coming through!

Some good points there GB, I was actually thinking along the same lines. After posting about possibly fostering eggs, I remembered someone saying it was worth trying a drop of ivermectin on the preen gland of chicks at about 9-14 days old (not sure why that age but it seems to be what i remember?). I have 'heard' this worked, but its hard to say. Can only try right? I dont doubt for a second I already have the virus responsible for french moult throughout my aviary. I have been reading studies recently that mention that the virus is present in some 90% of most aviary birds, not just budgies. It displays differently depending on the species, but as far as budgies go it is the chicks and fledging birds that are exposed to it for the first time that suffer the most. Birds exposed when not moulting show little to no signs/effect from the virus. Whether they 'french moult' or not, all birds exposed once build up immunity for it and SOME go on to be active carriers/spreaders. Because it is a virus that stays with the bird (like how the coldsore virus stays with humans and flares up when we are run down) - they shed the virus during times of stress - breeding, change of ownership (new birds), summer heat, moulting etc. THIS is why newly purchased birds breed more moulters than others - because they are stressed from breeding, new social system, new feed system and possibly heat as well. I bought birds 2 years back, and had french moult in a couple of nests with those new birds. The next season (the 2009 season) I didnt buy ANY new birds and I had ZERO french moult. I went to a colour breeders meeting, and EVERYONE who bought in new birds had really bad french moult and a terrible breeding season with dead chicks or infertility. I bred more from 6 pairs than some did with 40 pairs (seriously). Another interesting thing I learned is that there are three distinct variations of the virus present in new zealand. So it is possible that while your birds may all have built up immunity and share a common strain, and the aviary you are buying some birds from also have birds who are immune to it and havent had it in their chicks - well it might be a different strain and when you introduce it to your aviary close to breeding time - suddenly BOOM you have french moult again. So based on that, Im (personally) inclined to disagree with all those who kill (cull) french moult babies or refuse to breed from them. Why? Its in all your birds anyway, whether you see them as moulters, runners or not. The fact that my french moult causing birds bred NO french moult the next season supports this idea for me as well. As far as cinnamon goes, im not really opposed to it to be honest. Here is my real problem - I somehow came to an idea that I really need to build up and focus on a good line of normals, preferably blues. With a good line of normals, you can then bring in one great spangle, or pied, or cinnamon or opaline or whatever you like, and then begin to create a seperate line or a seperate 'family' within the same line. But having a great line of normals is really a huge advantage when wanting to branch out and breed quality ANYTHING. It is possible to just buy quality cinnamons or opalines and start breeding them together, but for some reason I am very very focused on developing a good line of normals. Partly because they are SO RARE. Who would think normals are rare? Well they do seem to be just that. Cocks are all split for something, hens are all sex linked or any old combination (because most of their dads are split for something!). Good normals are rare as hens teeth and almost never for sale here. My main problem with the cinnamon hen is she is really small. HUGE parents, but small herself. So hoping to go back to the breeder and find out if any of the cocks I purchased are related (from the same line) and cross my fingers that the good breeding (putting aside her visual looks) turns out for my benefit with a good pairing decision based on 'genetic potential'. See how we go anyway. I always have my new light green opaline cock and my beautiful hens I bred myself

Nope its me! Bwaha. I guess Splat?

thumbs up! Looking forward to more pics!

Yep, thats the kind of bird I would always buy if i could "pick any bird" in someones aviary lol. Usually the only ones for sale are the old dried up birds that have been thrashed in the breeding cage and are ready to kick the bucket, the birds that never bred/plucked/ate eggs etc, the smaller offspring of current year birds or the auction birds that go for more money alone than I could possibly spend on getting a few needed birds!! I was very happy to get him :hap:

Excellent post nubbly :hap: I know exactly what you mean about having to 'breed out' certain unwanted mutations in a variety. In my post showing some new birds I got, I have a really nice cinnamon opaline cobalt cock. Now I dont want cinnamon at all, and Im trying to limit opalines in my aviary but I visited so many aviaries and the quality of the blues for sale was just not there so i went with the BIRD i want in spite of the mutations. I plan to breed him to a good hen, and put his best son and best daughter/s to normal partners. I MAY need to pair a grandaughter back to him later but we'll see. With luck I should be able to pass on his look and breed out the cinnamon and/or opaline. As far as shows go, it doesnt matter - I can enter his best offspring into whatever class they fall into. But for my own longterm plans... *Sigh* its got to be bred out slowly...

It was such a mission getting them :hap: I still feel like I paid more than I should have, but getting lucky and finding the breeder who was selling up and offering me his best birds made me feel sooo lucky/happy. It really picked me up and made me remember just how much I love breeding these birds! But yes, I am certainly VERY happy with a few of those birds and who knows, maybe those smaller but well bred birds will surprise me...

Some of you might remember the thread about what looked to be a 'partial crest' or 'crest bred' hen I had pop up in a nest about a year ago. Here is the thread: Crested Hen Well, shes just come out of a moult and showing good signs for breeding. I don't think she's ready quite yet, but she's definitely close and I've paired her up in a breeding cage with a cock I recently purchased who's now out of quarantine. I had a nightmare time buying new birds, everyone I went to trying to find normal blues either didnt have normal blues (or only a handful out of hundreds of birds and they were therefore not for sale) or didnt have blues anywhere near the quality I have bred from mediocre (at best) stock. Besides that, people were telling me left right and centre "you have to breed grey greens and light greens! They are the power birds! You'll never win best in show with a blue! It'll take forever to bring them up!". In spite of a LOT of travel and seraching I came away with the best birds I could find and I was not overly happy. I got a fantastic cobalt cock - only he's cinnamon opaline. Opaline I could handle, cinnamon opaline is gonna be a nightmare to breed out (Yes yes, i've already had people tell me dont worry about variety, if its a good bird its a good bird, but im TRYING to breed decent blues so I WILL breed out the cinnamon opaline eventually, using the best of his daughters and the best blue normals I can breed from other pairs). Here he is, he weighed in at 50 grams on arrival. I will put up photos of the other birds later. I got a sky blue cock split cinnamon and opaline (ugh) and a cobalt normal cock who was smaller than my own cocks but I got him for free and his is not split for ANYTHING thank goodness. Both of these cocks weighed in at about 44 grams. I got a hen that weighed in at 50 grams (grey green normal split blue) I Plan to put her to the cinnamon opaline cobalt cock above. and another hen who was an interesting pick.. she is a little tiny thing that came from two huge parents with long masks. She came out of the nest stunningly, but when she moulted looked almost exactly the same as she did before. She's 6 months old, weighs 41 grams and I took a risk on her based on the parents (shes a sky cinnamon hen, also looks too have had french moult to a small degree if you ask me, but I knew this and bought her anyway as I planned on fostering the eggs out to reliable moult free parents). I happened to stop by to visit a guy and view some cages that were on an auction site. Turns out he is going out of budgies, and after seeing the ones I had just bought, hearing how much difficulty I have been having finding good birds - we had a great discussion about how the local breeders treat the new ones and he said those same breeders are hounding him for first pick of his birds as soon as he finally decides to sell them and says to me "tell you what, you pick out whatever you want from my aviary - biggest, best, whatever - and i'll give them to you for less than what you paid for those sparrows" (Pointing to the smaller blues i just purchased hehehe). Well, I only had enough money on me to buy 1 pair, the best cock I could see and the best blue hen (he only had 3 blue hens and about 50 other green males/females). The cock is a light green opaline and the hen is a normal cobalt (she weighed in at a whopping 72 grams, but her crop was pack full from cocks feeding her - however she is quite large in the body, long too but not so great in the head/mask). Havent got pics of her yet.. He also gave me a disabled bird for free. Story behind this bird is that it was one of the best chicks he ever bred in 2006, but it got attacked by the hen who chewed parts of its wings off and he could never bring himself to kill it. He's been looking after it ever since and said he knew that I would look after it so i could have it free. I told him I might be able to AI it, although it was getting a bit old. He laughed and said if i could get anything off it then he would be amazed and so glad he kept it alive all that time. He's a HUGE boy even with only half his wings - weighed in at 57 grams. I couldnt get a picture of him blowing, but boy can he ever... Here is the cock and hen I paid for from this breeder - The light green opaline cock weighed in at 61 grams (boy is he long and wide and blows like its nobodies business!) I really love how well he tucks in his beak when he blows: I plan to put him with the 'crested' hen mentioned earlier. She isnt blowing here, she didnt like the show cage :hap: But I think she matches him well.

Woohoo! I had chick #2 pinned from the beginning :hap: Feel so justified by everyone else agreeing with me hahaha. She is a looker! Just a question out there for anyone who might be able to answer it - is opaline problematic in lacewing breeding? I imagine it would not only dull the wing markings, but in some places make it fade out (imagine the faded 'thumb' print some opalines get, or the very non-descript wing markings that are overpowered by body colour). I just noticed the cock was an opaline split lacewing? Is he the father or a foster father? (Wondering if these hens are opaline lacewings, which would be quite the combo?)

Great result GB. Good management of mum, dad and babies as well - you are right on about the moult etc. I definately think this pairing was good if the young are anything to go by, cant wait for the moult - especially for baby #2

The number of times I have heard people say "I bought a snuggle hut for my budgie and it started laying eggs!" followed by "why?". Ugh. Im with you on this one Kaz.

I have worked in a mental health unit at the hospital (and will be working there now and after I graduate). From what i've seen, those who are treatment resistant and are deemed suitable candidates for ECT have had very good effects. Not everyone reacts the same or gets the same results, but that is the same with everything in life - food, stress, medication. We all react differently. Even the memory loss that comes with ECT varies from person to person but is generally not significant from what i've seen. They are very spacey for the first few days afterwards, but as I said - from what little i've seen, its had surprisingly good results. Whether they need repeat treatments later is often determined by what supports they have in their life as RIP mentioned - a healthy lifestyle with good friends, diet, nutrition, education and entertainment/hobbies is immeasurably good in supporting the general wellbeing of a person - not to mention their physical and mental health. Addiction to alcohol or illicit substances, smoking or poor diet, lack of exercise (and even sunlight) are all going to drag you down no matter what illness you are dealing with.

You and splat have some very scary hens :S

lololol. Funny hen stories :rofl:

Congrats :rofl:

oh if its ANY colour and not just base colours then sure, YF1 sf/df violet cobalts are the besssst

I'd say cobalt and light green Light green is such a vibrant colour and nice coloured cobalts are gorgeous too.

Completely seperate genes Grey is a colour adding factor and is not in any way linked to being green/green, green/blue or blue/blue. The fact that most of your grey green to blue produce grey young indicates firstly that your grey greens (or greens in general) are split blue already, and if they produce ONLY grey young in the blue series then they are likely double factor grey greens split blue. If they produce 'mostly' grey and 'some' blue then they are single factor grey greens split blue and just 'happen' to have thrown more greys as fars as blue series chicks go.

Im with Dave on a catchup after she moults out! I think it would be wonderful for her to go from plucked runt of the clutch to #1 baby :what: Those are the ones you sort of end up with a soft spot for

The hen has gone on to produce one more round with the same cock, and another round with a different cock. None of those 17 chicks had any sort of feather disturbance that was present in the previous round. In all this hen produced 44 fertile eggs over 4 rounds (2 rounds starting august last year and 2 rounds starting feb or march this year) of which 38 were fertile, 30 survived and the rest were either dead in shell (4) or died in the first 2 days of life during a freakish cold snap (4). Only 2 chicks showed the feather disturbance and both were hens. The hen that showed the most disturbance is now the best hen in my aviary (albeit the quality in my aviary was mediokre to begin with). Her sister who had less disturbance is my second best hen. Interesting that?

Loving this whole thread by the way. Great to read your comments nubbly. Two thumbs up!