Daz

It is possible to assist a chick out of the egg but the timing of this is important. It is not until the 18th day that the final traces of yolk are absorbed into the chicks abdomen and the umbilicus is sealed shut. Assisting the chick before that time will cause its death. Often, you can candle the egg to see if the yolk sac has fully retracted and that membranes below the shell no longer contain viable blood vessels. The actual time from which the first expansion of the neck muscle broke through the shell until the chick emerges from the egg can vary from 48 to 72 hours. Initially, you may hear a quiet tapping or even weak squeaks, and find a fine crack, group of cracks or crack plus a tiny hole in the shell. This is the beginning stages of the hatching process and no action is required. If you can hear loud squeaks, see creamy off white patches on the shell with a crack line around its circumference, and detect moist membranes you are observing the latter stages of a normal hatching and it is not necessary to assist the chick. If you can hear loud squeaks and find a widened crack line around the circumference of the egg or a large hole in the egg, and can observe a dried or drying membrane, then you can assist the chick, as it is having difficulties. To do this, take a haemostat or tweezers and gently work your way around the crack line with the air sac end in an upright position. You will be able to see the position and movement of the chick as you do this. Once having separated the egg, most chicks will be pushing and forcing the shell apart. If this is the case, gently return it to the nest box and the chick and hen will do the rest. If on the other hand, the dried membrane has adhered itself to the chick or shell, moisten a cotton swab in sterile saline solution and place it on the membrane. This will loosen it enough so that you can remove the chick safely from the shell. If there is slight bleeding at the navel, swab the umbilicus area with a 1% solution of Betadine and place the chick in the nest box. If the egg sac has not completely retracted, you should leave the chick in the bottom part of the shell and place it in an upright position. This sometimes works as it allows extra time for the yolk to retract. It is interesting to see what they go through ... It is not easy and the mirical of hatcvhing/birth is some thing special.

I wondered what you were up to Kaz... What a great job. Can't wait till I see the the new aviary going up..

Approximately 24 to 72 hours before hatching, the air sac membrane drops and blood vessels in the shell membranes begin to recede. In this end stage of development, when the chick is ready to emerge from the egg, increased levels of carbon dioxide in its blood system cause the neck muscles to expand and contract bringing the egg tooth on the tip of its beak into contact with the air sac membrane. As the egg tooth punctures and tears the membrane, oxygen stored in the large end of the egg is released. Gradually, the neonate begins to switch from obtaining oxygen through the chorio allantoic membrane to circulating air through its lungs. As the newly released source of oxygen from the air sac is depleted, carbon dioxide levels in the chick’s blood rise. Somewhere between twelve and twenty four hours after piercing the air sac membrane, the neck muscles again begin to work forcing the egg tooth into the shell itself. Once chipped, air enters rapidly oxygenating and strengthening the chick. After resting, the chick in a combination of repetitive jerking motions of the head, and rotation of its body, cuts and pips a circular path around the central circumference of the egg until the shell is weak enough that it can be pushed apart. ...if you are interested in how a chick hatches.

Home brand seed is rubbish. It contains filler seed which isnt what the birds need. In other words extra rubbish seed..sometimes wheat and oats and other less nutritious seeds that do not help a bird on a daily basis even when not breeding. The reason the homebrand seed isnt economical or a cost saving is because of the seeds in it that the budgies often dont eat. In that way the wastage isnt worth the cost saving at all. We have great info in our food and nutrition section, but suffice to say birds should get the extras ( vegies etc ) daily and not just when breeding. Seed ?.................budgie breeder or golden cob supreme mix. I hold not faith in cuttlebone...its something budgie play with more than take in for its calcium. Calcivet in their water helps with calcium. Lots more info here on the forum using the search function and looking in our FAQ section. PS ditch the homebrand seed...it isnt helping your budgies thrive. Better still plant it and feed the greens it sprouts to your birds. They will get more nutrition out of the greens than that seed. Got to agree with that... I wouldn't have two pair in one cage. It is asking for trouble. Stick to one pair per cage and you'll get less problems.

okay I see. I like the yellow face Pied. Very good Stance. I like spangles so would take that one. The grey pied has good back skull. I really can't see the ceres properly, which are th ehens and which are the cocks? can you remember?

Can you do individual photos to give us a better look at them. Front on will be fine for me.

If you are dividing it across te middle i'd use board so that the rubbish doesn't fall through. If you arte dividing it vertically i'd use wire so that the birds can see each other. But make sure the openings are small so that they can't fight.. beak to beak.

from the east. Welcome to the best Budgerigar site around..... okay I can be bias...

Very Nice to See you.

One thing I haven't done is to express my thoughts on breeding show birds for those that are thinking of geting into them. Breeding of show birds are much different than the smaller pet type birds. The pet type are easier and less hassle. When pairing up I look for a hen that is in season. No good starting with a hen that doesn't want to lay. I then pick 5 cock birds that I think will compliment her. The hen is placed in one of the training cages perferrably the middle one. The cocks are placed in separate cages around hen. I then judge which two cocks to be most suitable in features for her. After this I check the rings and my data base to see what the relationship is. If it is not too close eg, brother to sister or mother to son, the best cock is placed in cage with her. They are left for 15min to get aquanted. During this time, both of there lives are at stake. It has been know that either the hen or cock will injure or kill the other one if they don't get on. I stay in the breeding room while they are together to make sure all goes well. If I see them starting courtship I place them straight away in a breeding cabinet that has already been prepared. (But No nest box). They stay in the cabinet for 3 to 4 days or untill I see them feeding each other. It is then that I place the nest box on the cage. After the next box goes on I then need to trim the vent feathers of both birds. These will get in the way of mating so must be removed. Trimming by scizzors will help prevent quick return of the feathers. The birds are then left to themselves. I use a seed mix with vetafarm breeding add. Finger draws with Vetafarm truegrit for vitamins and an iodine additive in the water for 4 days a week. With in 10 to 13 days the first egg is laid. An egg every other day is laid until a full clutch is laid. I start to check the egg by torch after the fourth egg is laid. If the 1st egg is not colouring up, it is thrown out. when the 5th egg is laid I check the 2nd egg and so forth. There will only ever be three eggs in the nest that hasn't coloured up at any one time. Some time I find the fertile eggs coming late in the clutch but as the eggs are removed it promotes further laying. If I find that there is no eggs after 21 days, the pair is broken up and send back to the flights for a few weeks to a month and then retried. 18 - 20 days after the first fertile egg is laid the 1st chick hatches. The big question is will the hen feed it. If you catch the ckick just after it hatches, it is always good to give it a drop of room temperature water to rehydrate it from hatching. This is the best start it can get. If th ehen isn't feeding it and you have another nest with simalar aged hicks, swap one that is 2 to 4 days old. It will screem up a storm that will get the hen feeding it. Then after a day swap it back. The first chick would have been feed by the other he and would now be strong enough to scream for food. If you don't have another nest to swap with you need to give room temperature skim milk until the hen starts to feed. On or about the 8th day I ring the chicks. On or about the 21st day after the first chick hatches the cock should be involved in directly feeding the chicks. Here is another problem. What will the hen do at this stage. I have had one hen kill the cock because she didn't want him in the nest. I have had a hen stop the cock entering the nest but she stops feeding the chicks and lets them die. In both cases it is best to remove the hen and let the cock feed the chicks. Keeping an eye on the chicks to make sure they are being fed. I place the hen in a holding cage if and return her after the chicks fledge if I want to continue the pairing. I usually have no problem with the bond. Between the 28 and 32 day the chicks start to come out the nest box. Next problem the parents can see them as intruders and try driving them out of the cabinet. As this can't happen they are usually killed or worst. I have had a beautiful chick scalped by the cock bird. If I don't know how the parents will relate to the chicks outside the nest, I place a small box on the floor that the chicks can hide in. The parents / cock will feed the chcick through the openings until he is used to them and is then happy to let them free in the cabinet. If you find the chicks are still geting attacked, take away the offender if you can be sure who it is. The next problem at this stage is the hen chicks. The hen will see them as a threat if they try to return to the nest and the cock can see them as a sexual partner outside the nest and will not properly feed them. You just need to be aware of this. By the time they are 42 days old and have been feeding outside for the past 10 - 12 days they should be ready to go to a holding cage for the young. I call this my nursary. Mine stay in the nusary until they are 3 months old and then go to the Junior flight until they are 6 months old. Thing that can go wrong other than what I have addressed. The hen can become egg bound. A drop of medicated olive oil to the vent and then placed in a warm cage (Hospital Cage) wll result in the egg being laid, most of the time. If not a trip to the vet is needed urgently. The hen can prolapse. The egg is almost laid but is stuck 1/2 to 3/4 way out. Again a drop of Medicated Olive oil around the egg can help but a vet is better help. The bird can usually die some times after due to strees and shock. Both of these problems can be avoided with good diet and supplimenting with Calcium suppliments. Finding a chick cold on the floor of the cabinet because it got carried out with the hen can be revived by holding it in your hands and blowing hot air onto it. When revived place back under the hen. Kaz has a great post on this. Other problems can be Fench Moult or finding your best developing chick turns out to be a mop. Pairing and laying eggs is just the start on a long road to get that chick onto the perch, into a show cage and hopefully on to the front bench to win Champion of Show.

I see that this topic has come up again.... I have carried out much of my breeding with related pairs. The closest would be half brother to half sister. Cousins and Uncle to neice or Aunt to Nephew. There have been some good results. Enough for me to continue.

Well in America, budgerigars are sometimes known as Parakeets.

The grey factor helps increase the bird so pairing to Green, which will give rise to many possible colour outcomes hopefully inproving the bird. It is the best pairing this is why you find it hard to buy decent light greens. No body wants to sell them. Pairing with Grey would give a percentage of Double factor greys. Nothing wrong with greys as I do pair grey to grey but only if they are best to best. Remember that the grey birds we see is infact a blue bird with a grey factor. So the outcome would be Blues, Greys and Double Factor Greys. okay if you want to breed good greys. An other way is Grey to Grey greens split blue. Blue to blue can reduce the size of the birds, that is why we pair blue to green to get Green split blues and then pair these back to the blues to increase size. One pairing to improve size in the blue series is Grey green split blue to blue.

If she is a Contenental Clear Flight I would go to a light green normal or a light green opaline. The Cock should have go head qualities and a good mask to compliment her. If the cock is split to blue you could get Light greens, grey greens, greys and blues.

I suspect you have two forms of Pieds here. The Hen looks to be a contenental clear flight. She has good shoulders and a good stance and is a long bird but the mask is short which causes the spots to be under developed. She is lacking a lot in the head qualities. But having said that the directional feathering over the eye is good. It might be that she has pulled at time of the photo being taken. The Cock is a Dutch pied with good frontal and width above the cere. He is a short bird but with good stance. Neather of them would be good as a show bird but together they compliment each other and the chicks would be better than the parents. This is what we call stock birds. They are not a complete show bird but have plenty to give. I think if you pair them, depending on age, they would do you well. By the way, the hen looks ready for mating.

Beaks grow back... just feed him with a crop tube / needle until it grows back.

Kaz you are a brave girl. I call them around 14 to 21 days but never that young.. :bluebudgie:

Thats is good. The idea is to keep the ones that are above your average and let them breed. One thing I should add is that it is better in most cases to keep a 2nd rate sybling to an outstanding one as the better the birds the harder it is to breed them. I have some outstanding birds that have never bred. They look good but I can't get chicks.

I haven't gone to the Finch soft food yet but might. The Egg powder i've been buying is going up and so need to find a cheaper alternative. My sources say the finch soft food and Budgie starter will be the same price. I go through a cup of budgie starter a day and at $42.65 for 5kgs plus the egg powder at $19.00 per kg it is geting to the stage where i am thinking of other supplies.

65 are older than 6 months .. thats better... pushed the wrong button in the program.

I'll have to check those figure because to me they don't add up. :bluebudgie:

Is there a reason to add the neocare and Budgie starter? Is it the probotics in the neocare that you want? Neocare has Crude Protein 21% Calcium 1% Crude Fat 17% Vitamin A 13,000 iu/Kg Crude Fibre 3% Vitamin E 170 mg/Kg Lysine 1.0% Methionine 0.5% Budgie Starter has more protein 23% and the same or simalar components. Ground cereals, bread crumbs, whey and soy proteins, hydrolysed casein, lysine, methionine, vegetable oils, omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids, vitamins A, B1, B2, B6, B12, C, D3, E, K, nicotinamide, pantothenic acid, folic acid, choline, inositol, calcium, phosphorus, potassium, sodium, magnesium, zinc, iron, manganese, copper, iodine, selenium. Min Crude Protein 23% Min Crude Fat 10% Max Fibre 6% Max Salt 1% I would leave out the neocare and use this in emergencies. I would substitute the neocare with a probotics eg Probac with added garlic extract and good multivitamin such as Pentivite that you can get from your chemist Becareful on the salt content of the Soup mix, they are usually high with it. I don't know the breakdown of the chicken starter so won't comment. I would throw some parsley and spinach in to the blender with some carrots and beetroot and then mix the dry ingreadients in next. A hint to those that want to breed good feather ... check out going from Budgie Start to Finch soft food. http://www.wombaroo.com.au/finch_soft_food.htm Ground wheat, barley and oats. Bread crumbs, whey and soy proteins, lysine, methionine, vegetable oils, omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids, vitamins A, B1, B2, B6, B12, C, D3, E, K, nicotinamide, pantothenic acid, folic acid, choline, inositol, calcium, phosphorus, potassium, sodium, magnesium, zinc, iron, manganese, copper, iodine, selenium. Min Crude Protein 30% Min Crude Fat 12% Max Fibre 7% Max Salt 1% Looks the same but with more protien

The Black ones as Kaz said are Blackface or Melanistic (not confused with the spangle variety) but there are no peach colour ones. Red is not yet seen in the species. Not yet any way.

I have 144 at the moment from 8 days old. 79 are older than 6 months. 19 are older than 6 months but are this year rung. 76 are less than 6 months old. So these will be culled first and are probibly the most difficult as I don't know how they are going to mature.

The point metioned is