Penny

Hi, thanks for your reply Ratzy. I am all too aware that the other budgies may get sick also. They are still on the course of amphotericin for megabacteria which was recommended to be given to the other 3 birds at the same time and to be continued for 30 days. At this stage it seems all are okay. My birds live in the house with us and without exposure to drafts. 2 of my budgies lived with Sunny up until she became acutely ill and I moved her into a hospital cage. The other bird is a newby and he's in quarantine. The quarantine bird lives in another cage in another room where the door is closed. I am very particular about my hygeine when I have contact with him so as not to spread disease to the others. Anyway he seems fine at the moment. I am not sure where this illness came from. The 3 birds had been sick a few weeks ago with similar symptoms and were treated for megabacteria (again all the vet could find). The treatment was 10 days of amphotericin and 7 days of enrofloxacin at the same time (just in case). They recovered very quickly and it seemed were back to good health. This was before the new bird came so it obviously didn't come from him. Then very unexpectedly on Friday night last week Sunny fluffed up, started vomiting and had bright green diarrhoea. I got her to the only vet within reasonable driving distance who can perform faecal examinations and crop wash. They are 2hrs away so poor little Sunny. Anyhow, they kept her in until Monday afternoon and could find nothing expect the megabacteria and so sent her home as there was nothing more they could do. The vet said the only other diagnostic test they could perform was a blood test but she felt Sunny was too ill to go through the sedation needed to get the blood. Added to the mixing pot was the fact that I have had to be away for a few days after Sunny came home from the vet as my Mum had a surgery and needed me to be there for her. If it hadn't involved a flight I would have taken Sunny with me. My partner looked after Sunny carefully and I was in constant contact with him and the vet who treated her. I got home late yesterday afternoon and I knew she wasn't going to make it. My absence is another factor I feel has added to this outcome. I know my partner really did everything he could and was asked but he's not me. I don't know whether the vet missed something or not. However, I feel like I have caused this in not knowing what I should have done. Should I have sent her droppings away to Vetafarm for analysis, should I have got onto a flight to an avian vet. I'm not a breeder with years of experience in recognising symptoms so I can only rely on the advice of a vet and the internet to educate myself and it sucks actually. I don't know think I could go through this again. I am really devastated.

Hi, My budgie, Sunny, died this morning. I am pretty devastated as I really loved her. She had been at the vets for 3 days at the end of last week. They found Megabacteria but nothing else wrong so she was being treated for this. From other information I have read Mega is most often a secondary infection - Though as I said, the vet couldn't find anything else and said they were unable to treat her for anything further. It wasn't an avian vet but they did try very hard to help Sunny and performed droppings examinations and crop washes to try and find a cause to her illness. My question is regarding having an autopsy performed on Sunny. I feel I really need to know what happened to her so I know what it is and what should be done if any of my other birds get sick. I am so heartbroken I don't want this to happen again. What is the correct way to keep Sunny so that an autopsy can be performed (bearing in mind it's Sunday and Monday is a public holiday). If this information is elsewhere on the site, I apologise for not looking properly. Thank you for any advice.

Oh, okay. Thank you for your advice **Liv**

Hi all, Could this be the beginnings of scaley face or something else on Beanie's beak? I'm not sure - it just looks a bit odd to me.

Yes, Clearwing, I have a millet spray for him which he hasn't touched. He touches nothing expect the hulled oat, he will go through a whole feeder of mixed seed in order to get a few hulled oats (he throws all the other seed out and it is untouched). He will eat fresh spinach though. I am at a loss as to what to do about his feeding. Maybe it will just get better with time. I did read somewhere on the internet that Canker makes it painful them to swallow/digest hard seeds and that's why they give up eating and starve even though they are hungry. Oats seem to be a particularly soft grain, so maybe that's why he goes for them alone.

Hi, My bird Big Ted has just gone through an illness which was most probably canker as he has responded to medication for this (progress posted in the trips to the vet forum). Anyway, prior to the crisis of the illness (before he became acute), he would toss every food, seed and anything else offered except hulled oats or spinach. At the time I didn't know what was going on, I thought he was being super fussy/neurotic, but as he became acutely sick (whilst still trying to eat) I realised it was the hulled oats in the seed mix that he was looking for, for some reason he could eat them. He was frantic for those particular grains. So as to keep him alive over the couple of days he was really, really struggling I sifted these out of a box of canary mix for him. He is much better now, though really thin and he has started to take a little bit of vegetable today, however it is still the oats that he is relying on. He does not/will not touch any other grain. I have also tried to encourage him to eat egg and biscuit but he won't. I got him as a 2yr old bird from a pet shop so maybe he hasn't had it before, I don't know. At the moment I feel I have no other choice but to supply him with the hulled oats that he wants as he is very thin. Has anyone had an experience with a bird that is recovering but is feeding very selectively? Should I just go with the oats for a while and hope that he slowly starts to eat normally again? Or what? I am worried that he may become even more malnourished if he continues to be so selective.

Hi GenericBlue, You responded to me with my situation with my bird recently, which I appreciated very much, so I just wanted to let you know that although I can offer you nothing in the way of advice, I sympathize with you over this and over your frustration with treatment/diagnosis etc. Hope you get to the bottom of this and without anymore birds lost.

GenericBlue I just wanted to let you know that my bird, Big Ted, has turned the corner to recovery today. I am stunned and almost disbelieving, as yesterday, and particularly lastnight, I was sure he wasn't going to see morning. It was devastating to see him in such a bad way, white liquid dribbling from his mouth and the whistling and crackling sound as he tried to breath. I think he was as close as anything to death. I stayed up with him until midnight and helped him drink some of the Ronivet which I believe was what saved him. When we got up this morning I let my partner go downstairs first as I was too apprehensive as to what I would find. When I heard 'I think he's turned the corner' I could hardly believe it. Of course he's still not 100% but, so, so much better, eating and even a little chattering song this afternoon. I sent his droppings off yesterday for analysis so as to rule out diseases other that canker (I cannot test for canker up here as I was unable to find a vet to do a throat/crop swab). I feel so grateful to the staff at Vetafarm who are analysing BT's droppings and who (it seems pretty much positive) diagnosed my bird over the phone. Needless, to say I am very relieved and a little wiser.

okay. Thanks for looking though GenericBlue.

Medication arrived to treat BT's suspected canker. It is Vetafarm Ronivet-S (ronidazonle). I am wondering if this can be combined with the Psittavet (Doxycycline hydrochloride) for the psittacosis as in the post I have just read from GenericBlue. BT is not good at all today, he is worse than yesterday but still trying to eat. He only wants to eat the wheat out of a canary mix I have given him. I have tried to tempt him with other foods but all he eats is the wheat. Today he is making a whitstling sound as he breaths, though he has no nasal discharge and is not sneezing at all. He had a good drink of the medicated water about an hour ago but not since. I am so upset as I think he might die the way things are going. If anyone has any advice I would really appreciate it as I feel a bit on my own, no vet here seems to know a whole lot about birds and my experience is basic.

Oh dear. I will be sure to read your post GenericBlue and I am sorry about your birds. At this stage I am very fearful of BT's survival - he has really gone downhill today and there's nothing I can do until meds arrive tomorrow. Poor little thing. He's still trying to eat though.

I just thought I would update as to what's going on with Big Ted. Well, since I last posted (Nov 24, 09) BT continued to have his funny smell and his watery droppings. Though, following the outcome/diagnosis of the last vet visit I put it down to his 'fatty liver'. Although I never did believe BT was ever a fat bird, as the vet had assumed by looking at him on my last visit, BT lost weight. I could feel this when I handled him. He got thinner, but his droppings didn't change. I also think he became slowly and subtly quieter over the month. Then, over the weekend past, he started regurgitating (not in a happy budgie way). I could see seed come up into his mouth. He did it frequently and seemed distressed when it happened. He would then go over to his feeder and behave ravenously hungry but throw most of the food out of the feeder as if he were trying to look for his favourite piece. Next I could see him regurgitating a cloudy liquid mixed with seed and then he vomited clear liquid which stuck to his head/face feathers. Later he vomited a cloudy sort of liquid into his feeder as he tried to eat. On Monday I took him to the vet who examined him and confirmed he was thin. I described his symptoms and the diagnosis given was psittacosis and suitable meds were prescribed. I enquired after a dropping analysis as well as a throat/crop swab both to confirm psittacosis and to rule out any other cause. The vet said he could send of a sample if I liked but thought starting treatment for psittacosis would be better and also he wasn't sure what diagnostic test was used on a ling bird to detect psittacosis. I got home googled psittacosis and came across the Vetafarm website where they offer dropping analysis for, among other diseases, psittacosis. Luckily, I gave them a call to confirm if it was suitable for me, as a layperson to send my birds droppings for analysis. They were more than helpful and took a history of the situation with BT. After giving history/symptoms etc I was given a different diagnosis of Trichomoniasis – Canker. They were fairly convinced of this and that the bird should be treated for Canker and not psittacosis. They recommended a crop/throat swab to confirm it. I then had the uncomfortable job of contacting my vet who was really good about it and said he would go with their diagnosis as they were the bird specialists. He is unable to carry out a throat swab though. I am still going to send off the droppings 'just in case' and to rule out all other factors. Meds for Canker will be here tomorrow morning, thank goodness, as BT seems really quiet and overly sleepy.

I took some photos of his poops this morning, they're on white paper. Sometimes they smell a little bit fishy. These are from overnight and they are quite different to my other budgies who have really tight, neat little poos. My partner and applied Ivomec to the budgies this morning and there are lice falling off him so he must feel better about that.

Yes Kaz, he's really a cute budgie with a lovely, lovely nature. He's not tame as such but he is quite calm and shows interest in me when I talk to him. His leg ring is green, I did have the details written down but have misplaced them.

Yes, I believe it to be a normal diet for a budgie. However the vet was an older gentleman and I think he thought he was doing me a favour. I also don't think he heard me when I told him that I had only just taken possession of the budgie and that I agreed with his diet tips as that is how I feed my budgies. Anyway diet doesn't seem to make a difference to Big Ted's faeces and today he seems a bit irritated around his vent as he keeps trying to scratch at it with his feet (there was a little bit stuck to his feathers which I have now removed for him). He seems pretty happy, though today I thought he was a little quieter than normal. I am home all day so I am able to watch him pretty closely. I could be a little overly observant but that's because I am concerned for his well being and just want to get to the bottom of this problem.

Renee, I don't think he looks fat either. He also looks healthy, although he does have something going on with his digestive system as he still has wet poos, the vet himself confirmed that he was excreting too much urine. I just want to know what is wrong and what direction I should take as I can see I am going to have to request what I want from the vet and not rely on them and their diagnoses as it seems they want to wait and see if he gets more and more symtomatic, whereas I want to know what's going and am not inclined to see if he gets better on his own. Here is a copy of the diet. I typed it out as the copy given was a little too blurry to paste. DIET FOR PSITTACINE BIRD SPECIES A common misconception is that a diet based solely on dry seed is balanced. Seed diets are in fact deficient in many nutrients including protein, copper, zinc, magnesium and particularly Vitamin A. Also, sunflower seeds are up to 50% fat and should not be fed in large quantities. In the wild, parrots choose from a wide variety of food sources, very little of which is dry seed. A recommended, balanced diet for parrot species is as follows: Grain & Grain Products (60%) Dry Bird Seed Cooked Rice Wholemeal Bread & Pasta Fresh Vegetables & Greens (10-20%) Silver beet Celery Broccoli Capsicum Corn Cobs Cucumber Zucchini Grated Carrot Cooked Pumpkin & Sweet Potato Sprouting Seeds & Seed Heads Native Flowers (Bottlebrush etc) Milk Thistle Dandelions ***NO AVOCADO – IT'S TOXIC*** Fruits (5%) Apple Pear Rockmelon Apricots Mango Banana NB If the bird naturally lives in a desert environment, feed less fruit. Protein (15-20%) Vegetable Sources: Cooked Soybean Mungbeans Peas Lentils Animal Sources: Cooked Lean Meat Hard Boiled Egg Cat & Dog Biscuits Calcium Cuttlefish or Calcium Syrup (added to the water in breeding birds) Chewable Toys Rawhide Chews Pine Cones Sticks & Branches (from native species)

As per my previous post I collected Big Ted from the vets. I am not entirely happy with the care/service received although I am not sure if I should feel this way as my experience is not great with birds visiting vets. The diagnosis is fatty liver. I was given a diet print out from another vet clinic (possibly where the locum vet is from). The bird was not x-rayed as the vet said he would have had to anaesthetise and didn't think it would be worth the trouble. pH type stick tests (like pee stick tests for humans)were taken of his faecal matter, one for detecting protein and one for blood. Both protein and blood were present (the blood is absolutely not visible to the naked eye as I look obsessively for signs of change with him). The whole day my bird had only done two poos which I think is strange in itself, though maybe he was stressed and this is how it affected him. The vet said that Big Ted is obese although he admitted this was an assumption as he did not carry out a physical examination. His professional advice was that Big Ted has fatty liver due to a poor diet (excessive seed) and to follow the diet on the sheet and hopefully this would see things put to rights. He has only been with me for a couple of weeks so I am not sure what his diet was like with his previous owners but his diet with us is very varied and not exclusively seed. Please bear in mind that this bird is only 2 years old. I have known pet budgerigars who have lived to 8 and 10 years old on a seed only diet, so I am wondering how his diet could have affected him so quickly. Any direction or advice would be appreciated. Sailorwolf, the Ivomec I have is for cattle. It is the pour on type. I have information on application for birds, both budgies and finches. I planned to apply 1 drop to the skin on the back of the neck. I did let the vet know and he was in agreement with this use. Kaz, are you recommending the AIL instead of the Ivomec because it is more effective for these type of insects? Here are a couple of photos of Big Ted.

Hi, I am updating what has happened since I forst pposted about my smelly budgie, who we've now named Big Ted and have only had for a little over 2 weeks. Since my last post I took him to the vet as per my instinct and advice. As far as I know there is no avian vet in our area so I have taken him to the vet who I normally take the dogs to. On this first visit, which was about 2 weeks ago, the vet's advice was to him. I also noticed his poo was a little strange, probably the faeces part was pale and there was increased urine. So I wormed him and there was no change in his poos etc. I took him back to the vets again and this time the vet prescribed a tetracycline antibiotic which he was to have in his water for 10 days, the vet did not physically examine Big Ted. Over this time his poos did not become what I would call normal (based on my observations of my other budgies), though the faeces part has become a normal colour the increased urine continued. So back to the vet again today and this time the original vet is away and he has a locum who seems a bit more interested and switched on to birds. He has kept him there all day and is testing his faecal matter and x-raying the bird. He says there is something wrong, maybe his liver, and confirms that there is too much urine output. Big Ted is still down there and I have to go and pick him up now and find out what the vets diagnosis is. By the way he also has lice which I have seen creeping through his feathers. They are really, really slender brown things. I have pour on Ivomec but haven't wanted to chemically stress the poor birds given that there is something sinister going on with his system already. Hope I am right in holding off on this.

Hold your horses there a moment Penny. In response to your question, Yes, Canker is a really nasty and fatal disease and must be treated with Ronivet S. HOWEVER, you would know if he had canker because there would be mucus staining on his mask or above the cere because an infected budgie vomits when it has canker. And you haven't mentioned that. So go have another look at him and check for signs of vomiting. As all you have mentioned is a fishy breath I would be more inclined to think he has 'Sour Crop', that is a yeast infection in his crop. Straight away I would be adding Apple Cider Vinegar to his water at a rate of 5 drops per 200mls. It is important you get this into him asap SO if you can crop feed say 3 mls into him that would be an advantage. IN ANY CASE with the best of intentions Liv and I can offer you possible solutions but really you need to take him to a Vet asap and have him professionally assessed in person (so to speak). Thanks for that advice renee. No, he's definately not vomiting, nor does he appear sick in any way, just the smell is all. I will make up the apple cider vinegar for him but I don't know how to crop feed and I don't have the equipment, I will try to get him to drink some from a dropper. I am going to take him to the vet in the morning so hopefully he will be able to ascertain what's going on.

Thanks for your reply Liv. Is canker life threatening and what is the usual treatment ?antibiotics. Also how contagious is it? I and family will be extra careful with our contact with him in case we carry something back to the others.

Hi, I have a new budgie which came from our local rural produce store. I have had him for a week now and he is quarantined from our others. He is an adult male, I think about 2yrs old, as he has a green leg ring. He seems in good health except that his breath seems to smell a little bit fishy. I haven't ever noticed my other budgies with the same breath odor. Sometimes our other male had a bit of a sour smell on his breath immediately after he regurgitated but that seems normal to me, whereas this fishy smell seems a bit weird. It's not overly strong ie it's not eminating from him to the point where I smell it when I am near his cage - it's when I get my nose close to his face and then I smell it. Otherwise he seems normal and healthy. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you Kaz & Jenn144. Well, I can't decide if his cere has a white appearance or not - probably not. Looking at the picture I posted, maybe it wasn't the best representation. I am looking at him now and his cere looks very blue/purple/pink, no white at all. Yet early this morning with the morning sun on him I thought it might have been a tiny bit whitish. Anyhow as Kaz said his/her name is okay for whatever sex and he/she is so very sweet regardless.

Hi there, I am wondering what colour/type my new little budgie Sunny is. Hopefully these pictures show him accurately to you. He has a a little yellow face and pale yellow wings & tail. What is puzzling me is his front body colour, (the patch between the blue) - in certain lights it seems to be a extremely pale greyish yellow, at first I thought he was a bit grubby but it hasn't gone away over the last few of days. The blue of his rump is also mixed with grey. He is only about 6 wks old. Thank you everyone.

Hello again, Here is my latest little baby budgie (approx 6 wks & from the pet shop). We have named him Sunny and was wondering if he is actually a boy. That was my guess anyway as the pet shop person didn't have any idea. He is very, very sweet natured and I am in love with him already! His cere seems to be a bluish with a purple tinge. If another photo is needed I have taken quite a few so I can always post another if necessary. Thanks everyone.

Thanks Kaz, really appreciate your advice.